Apple build quality and Outsourced labour (was: The Thermal Paste Fix)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zorg, May 20, 2006.

  1. zorg macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    #1
    We have all read that post on the re-application of the thermal paste, and how it cooled the MBP considerably. But my question is, why doesn't Apple do it? I mean, it is so easy! Just put less thermal paste on the MBP. This will save the paste, and cure the heat of the MBP. Why doesn't Apple do it!?!?
     
  2. Merlyn3D macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    #2
    If you think it's easy, you obviously haven't pulled apart and put back together this macbook pro. It's one of the toughest machines to do so with that I've come across in my career. You need to set aside at least 2 hours.
     
  3. zorg thread starter macrumors regular

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    May 3, 2006
    #3
    Uh, when they are putting together the MBP at the factory, they put in the thermal paste. Why don't they put in less there and then, so you won't have to open it up...
     
  4. California macrumors 68040

    California

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    Aug 21, 2004
    #4
    This is a quality control issue at the factory level. I am still confused how an American company like Apple can expect 12 year old peasants in Chinese labor camps to come up to their high standards. How does one enforce this quality control legally? I don't know.

    Apple would have to pay a manager, who in turn could not be bribed by the Chinese, to randomly inspect or no payment made to the factory. I don't understand international legalities of this, especialy since it seems these same factories are the ones counterfeiting Apple's iPods and shuffles at a frightening rate. But it is obvious that it is these factory "workers" (i.e. slaves) that are shooting thermal paste at the components like toothpaste or something. They probably think more is better, the physics of thermal cooling and heating are almost too much for me to understand, so I can't expect it of these 88 cent a day workers.

    some other poster wrote that the reason Apple's laptops are having more problems than Dells or other PCraptops, is because Apple's designs are so much better, i.e. tighter and more cramped spaces inside. Therefore, heat issues are potentially so much more problematic.

    I have a nagging suspicion that these heat issues go back to the Titianium Powerbooks. Just for history's sake, my 1994 145b Powerbook never got hot.
     
  5. Timepass macrumors 65816

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    Jan 4, 2005
    #5
    again it is not a factor issue.

    The is a design flaw and a design issue. The problem and the blame belong on apple engineering the labor is following the directoin which state to put that much paste on there causing the problem. Apple own manual state that. So I think the blame land on the apple engineering deparment not the factor or the labor which are just following directions from head quarters that stat to use that much paste.
     
  6. ManchesterTrix macrumors 6502

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    Feb 24, 2005
    #6
    There's a slight logical fallacy there. The only manual anyone has seen is the technician manual. The Factory workers are not working from this manual. Now you can assume that whatever instructions they were given were also horrendously wrong, but it is still an assumption
     
  7. gekko513 macrumors 603

    gekko513

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    Oct 16, 2003
    #7
    Can I have some source for these "12 year old peasants" and factory "workers" (i.e. slaves)" claims, or are you just making it up as you go along?

    Your tone comes off as condescending.
     
  8. Timepass macrumors 65816

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    Jan 4, 2005
    #8

    well if th technical manual has directions of using that much thermo paste it is safe to assume that the direction from the factor are using the same guild lines. If not then techincal manual is crap because techincal manual are there to make sure the computer is with in factor specs.

    Face the fact Apple F-up
     
  9. Catfish_Man macrumors 68030

    Catfish_Man

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    Sep 13, 2001
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #9
    It's an annoyingly common attitude these days.

    Statement: Apple is flawless in all ways
    Statement: Chinese people are incompetent/corrupt/evil
    Conclusion: Chinese people are responsible for all Apple problems.

    hooray for "logic" :rolleyes:
     
  10. blitzydog macrumors member

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    Apr 23, 2006
    #10
    Is the MacBook comparably difficult? If mine turns out to be a scorcher, I have half the mind of performing this fix.
     
  11. Merlyn3D macrumors regular

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    May 15, 2006
    #11
    It's not that it's hard so much as you have to make sure you have the correct tools and time to do so, and a patient hand.
     
  12. macenforcer macrumors 65816

    macenforcer

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    Jun 9, 2004
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    Colorado
    #12
    I had a girlfriend whos mom was a total burnout loser. She landed a job at an electronics manufacturer in Florida. She was in charge of mainboards and assembly and such. She lost her job 2 yrs later when the company farmed out in asia. The thought of here building something electronic baffled me as she knew nothing about it whatsoever. I would say the asians or whoever is doing the building are doing a fine job. Its the americans that are lazy and mess things up. Americans bitch the whole time they are working, take 1 hr smoke breaks and bitch about every single thing at work. People that are working to stay alive follow the rules and shut their mouth.

    Yes, I am an american. I know what I am talking about.
     
  13. California macrumors 68040

    California

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    Aug 21, 2004
    #13
    My tone is not condescending, I am outraged. Most civilized governments outlawed child labor laws as well as institued fair labor laws about one hundred years ago. I am outraged at the rank American greed and the sickening Chinese totatliarian attitude towards their billions of people.

    Maybe you didn't mean "condescending" or maybe you don't realize that the same government that slaughtered millions from 1949 to the Tianemman Square massacre is still the same government in power in Beijing?

    Uh, they are commies economically and oligarch totalitarians governmentallly. Or didn't you read about the NYorkTimes reporter the Chinese threw in jail last week for simply stating the truth? Or how Google and Yahoo have been greedily in cahoots with the ChiComs to spy on emails so that they can throw more people in jail for trying to have freedom of speech?

    I'm outraged at this primitive 19th Century authoritarian Marxism.

    So, if I am a bit less than appreciative of the labor laws in China when they are building Apple computers -- and at the same time counterfeiting Apple products -- I'd be really really really surprised if Jobs knew how to keep quality control in Chinese factories. The Chinese have even counterfeited Mercedes cars!

    All I am saying is that if you want cheep cheep cheep labor in the cheep cheep cheep Chinese countryside, I'll be dang surprised if our MacBooks have the right amount of thermal paste on them. And I don't think there are any international laws that Apple can easily fall back upon to institute better quality control. I'm not condesending, I'm freaked out that people like you in the EU seem to project upon China that they are somehow more "moral" in their business practices and labor laws and respect for human rights than other western countries. Especially if you know how much blood Mao and the Gang of Four really shed. THIS IS THE SAME GOVERNMENT THAT MAO STARTED! And Apple and other industries think they can do normal business with them? What a laugh. No wonder our MacBooks heat up.
     
  14. gekko513 macrumors 603

    gekko513

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    Oct 16, 2003
    #14
    You're entitled to your opinion, but keep it to the political forum and keep it out of the Macintosh Computers forum.
     
  15. California macrumors 68040

    California

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    Aug 21, 2004
    #15
    Excuse me, I don't have any gripe at all against Chinese people. I have a gripe against the Chinese "government" -- the same government Mao started in the 1940's. The same government responsible for millions slaughtered in Mao's "Cultural Revolution" and the Tianneman Square massacre. Apple and other companies think that they can do business as usual with this primitive totalitarian state that has no real freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, no private property rights, no freedom of political affiliation... etc. So quit going all PC on me for no reason -- Apple of all companies should not be entrusting their designs to this country that has no respect for intellectual property rights and seems to think that they can just rip off iPods and Hondas with abandon, to the West's detriment.

    Excuse me if I question the wisdom of letting their factory laborers, who LIVE at the factory by the way after their 18 hour workday -- may not have the nuanced understanding of why CPUs need only a tiny dollop of thermal paste.

    The Chinese government, with it's millions of people slaughtered at their own hands, IS evil. Their people are NOT. Poor, ignorant and bereft of basic human rights, they are, but not evil. And their government and our industries are using them as slave labor to "do the jobs Americans don't want to do..."
     
  16. California macrumors 68040

    California

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    Aug 21, 2004
    #16
    Sorry, I just didn't understand why I was called condescending. If you want statistics, get THE BLACK BOOK OF COMMUNISM pulbished in France in 2000, in the UK and US in 2002, I believe. Scary book.
     
  17. cruxed macrumors regular

    cruxed

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    Aug 28, 2005
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    #17
    Yes, I am extremely sick of hearing these comments.

    I'm Chinese, though I dont live on the mainland. Instead, I live in Hong Kong where probably 99% of our products are manufactured in China.
    It's time to cut that belief that Chinese people have low standards and that Apple is flawless. Have you ever thought of the fact that maybe the problem boils down to Apple itself? And not the Chinese?

    Anyways, just my rant.
     
  18. California macrumors 68040

    California

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    Aug 21, 2004
    #18
    I don't know what language you guys are reading. But I'm writing in plain English and saying this has NOTHING TO DO with the Chinese people. Nada. Nothing.

    I don't think the Chinese people have low standards. I just don't think they have basic human rights which infringes upon the ability to think creatively.

    The Chinese government and greedy Western businessmen, on the other hand, I have a problem with. Stealing by the Chinese government of intellectual property and trying to squeeze Chinese laborers for every penny by Western businesses are both wrong, sickeningly wrong.
     
  19. THX1139 macrumors 68000

    THX1139

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    Mar 4, 2006
    #19

    Uh, looks like someone is off topic. Excuse me while I go vomit.
     
  20. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #20
    Thank you for that. There's been an awful lot of racist rubbish spouted on this subject.
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #21
    1 Since when did human rights or lack of them impinge on creativity?
    2 Since when did creativity help with following instructions?
    3 The amount of paste applied is fully in line with Apple's published specifications.
    4 Ergo, this is not a QC problem.
     
  22. j26 macrumors 65832

    j26

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    Mar 30, 2005
    Location:
    Paddyland
    #22
    Actually China is trying to clean things up, and child labour is an issue in the US too
    "The United States is one of only two countries in the world that have not ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC). Somalia—a country without an internationally-recognized government—is the other."
    Source

    The US has been involved in the slaughter of almost 1m Vietnamese, tens of thousands of Iraqis and many other interventions. Britain has been involved in massacres. Russia has been involved in massacres. Even little old Ireland has been involved in atocities (especially during our civil war). Most countries have a past they'd rather forget about.

    Have to agree with you on freedom of expression, but that's nothing to do with the quality of Apple manufacturing facilities, is it?

    It's actually mid 20th Century Maoism - Marxism is predicated on an urban industrialised society, not a massive rural agrarian one (as it was at the time in China)

    And Creative are suing Apple for knocking off their ideas and Apple are countersuing Creative for the same thing - people knock off each others ideas. That's not a Chinese trait, that's human. It just happens to be cheaper in China.

    The law that Apple can fall back on is the contract - you don't perform you don't get the business.
    And heat seems to be particular to Apple - what about all of the other pc's that are manufactured in China?


    Christ, I hate racism masquerading as reasoned argument.
     
  23. jacobj macrumors 65816

    jacobj

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    Apr 22, 2003
    Location:
    Jersey
    #23
    I love the misconception you have of Chinese factories. You are right that standards may not be up to those of some parts of the western hemisphere and that worker's rights are less of an issue, but the image you portray is one of Orwellian abuse.

    Is your intention to make is sound awful so as to make a point that Apple cannot expect quality? If so then you are using hyperbole in such a way is repulsive.

    Edit: in addition, do you imagine that western factory workers are well educated? I think you paint and idealistic picture of the US and its population and if I offend your sensibilities then consider those of others.
     
  24. jacobj macrumors 65816

    jacobj

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    Apr 22, 2003
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    Jersey
    #24
    You are proof positive that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

    Put simply, China has a plan of long term reform. The truth is that the Tianemman square massacre prevented an overnight revolution that would have resulted in turmoil, disarray and death on a massive scale. This may be hugely controversial, but the Tianemman decision was made by a Utilitarian Chinese government and not the barbarians you see them for.

    I am not saying that I liked that decision, but at least don't display ignorance and believe that it was the decision of a totalitarian government holding on to power for the sake of it.
     
  25. bigandy macrumors G3

    bigandy

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    Apr 30, 2004
    Location:
    Murka
    #25
    something's making me think this thread shouldn't be called the "thermal paste fix"....

    yes, there's a paste problem.

    no, it's not been entirely dealt with yet.

    no, none of us know the exact source of the fault.

    so, let's stop bitching at each other for being racist and just hope that apple sort any problem with it soon.
     

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