Apple calls off the attack dogs

Discussion in 'MacBytes.com News Discussion' started by MacBytes, Feb 3, 2008.

  1. macrumors bot

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    MikeTheC

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    Which is probably the single best argument for Apple to not pursue rumors sites. They just paint themselves the biggest target in doing this. It's not like Apple is trying to sue someone over liable or slander.

    Yeah, and then there's always that.
    No, that would be more due to Microsoft producing a pile of crap and then trying to stick it to their users at exorbitent prices.

    While this probably is somewhat true, no doubt this is being completely over-played. The MacBook Air is less than a resounding success because of two factors:

    1. It is almost myopically focused on a very limited market segment's perceived needs.

    2. It is such a technology- and feature-stripped unit, it just doesn't appeal most of the rest of us.

    But otherwise, the article was fairly good.
     
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    IJ Reilly

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    #3
    Interesting. You already know that the MBA is "less than a resounding success" only a couple days after it started shipping. That's quite a crystal ball you've got there -- mind if I borrow it?
     
  4. macrumors 68020

    daveL

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    #4
    Mba

    Gee, that's funny, Apple said the MBA was selling very well in the earnings conference call with analysts. It would be a no-no for them to be misleading in that setting. Maybe Apple has a better handle on what the market wants than many for the PC-centric *experts* out there.
     
  5. macrumors 68030

    BenRoethig

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    #5
    First, the rumors were very vague

    Second, they've been around since Apple shortsightedly combined the iBook and 12" powerbook into a single model.

    Third, I'm hoping that Jobs has finally learned that leaks are inevitable and lashing out at the faithful for the sake of his own ego isn't good for business.
     
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    Peace

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    Wow that article could have just used the last 2 paragraphs and it would have been readable. To use a whole page is just filling useless space.
     
  7. macrumors 603

    shadowfax

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    #7
    Or for that matter, all the crazy people on this board that want a computer with more power than the MacBook in a package smaller than the actual MBA, and therefore look down on the MBA.

    Blogger-critics and PC columnists are by and large morons. Most people don't buy spare batteries, or enjoy using 10 inch screens and typing on micro-keyboards. I think the MBA has shown, with the virtuosity of its retail launch, that it's a plenty high-end machine (compared to a celeron machine with 1GB of RAM, what you are more likely to end up with) in a surprisingly tiny package. It's really looking like the internet community had a case of the "fat nano" reaction. They will come around when they see it, and hold their friends'. And I will buy one when they get larger RAM as an option, and Penryn processors, come 9-10 months from now.

    The rumors weren't all that vague the week before it came out. That's certainly a very different scenario than the Asteroid thing, though, which was a leak many moons in advance of any potential product release. Still, it seems like the MBAir leak was pretty bad, particularly the wired story the day before. It really sucked for Apple, kinda stole their thunder. I think you could kind of hear the lost presence in the keynote because steve knew that it was no big surprise.

    1. No, it's not. I'm not a high mobility person, and I want one. The only myopia I am seeing around here is your own, cf. IJ Reilly's comment to you above.

    2. Feature-stripped? Every laptop is feature-stripped. My MPB is feature-stripped. Where is the replaceable GPU? Where is the latest graphics card? Why can't I get 16 GB of RAM like on a Mac Pro? Why doesn't the Macbook even have a GPU?

    But seriously, Technology-stripped? Yes, it's too bad they aren't using Penryn, processors in it, but seriously? it has the latest, best integrated graphics. It has an AWESOME LED-backlit display. It has a full-horsepower mobile CPU, not some POS anemic CPU or other. What gives? It's a dual-core 64-bit laptop that has 2 GB of RAM, and it only weighs 3 lbs. Technology stripped? I really don't think so ;)
     
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    MikeTheC

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    shadowfax:

    Ok, pal, calm down over there. You're gonna burst a blood vessel or something. Sheesh.

    First, I look down on the MBA because of the Apple- and/or industry-standard features it lacks compared to Apple's other notebooks.

    I *never* desired an ultra-thin Apple notebook, and I've never *stated* nor *implied* anything contrary to this. So frankly I'm at a loss as to how you came to the conclusion about wanting more power than a MacBook in a smaller package than the MBA. That's never happened. In fact, if you look back at posts I've made elsewhere, you'll see I've been consistently campaigning *against* the ultra-portable form factor.

    The MacBook Air is "feature-stripped" of the following, or do you care to deny it:

    1. No on-board Ethernet.
    2. No on-board FireWire (FW400, FW800, or both).
    3. No on-board video out (VGA, DVI, HDMI, etc.)

    And, for goodness sake (and the umteenth time) NO FREAKIN' INTERNAL OPTICAL DRIVE.

    I'm not trying to say the MBA is a poor substitute for a MacPro. I'm trying to say it's a poor substitute for a MacBook. And other than perhaps a two-physical-button trackpad and possibly a built-in media reader, there's really not anything else I'm conscious of that a MacBook Pro (because you mentioned it) is lacking, considering it is a notebook and not a desktop.

    Please don't put words in my mouth.
     
  9. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #9
    Please, we don't need another MBA-ripping thread. We get that some people don't want one. Enough already!
     
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    MikeTheC

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    IJ:

    At least you're civil. Thank you for that. Now, let's look at this point you're calling into question.

    The MBA is NEITHER a total success, a total failure, nor anywhere in between because it's a brand new model with basically ZIP for statistically significant customer purchase and actual owner-feedback history. Period. That means you don't get to call it "not a failure" and I don't get to call it "not a success" yet because we simply do not know.

    Now, having said that, I feel it's focus is myopic, and therefore it's ultimate success will be inherently limited because it's a very specialized offering. As I've pointed out to Shadowfax and others on this board, there's some basic technology it's lacking. I've even compared it (somewhat affectionately) to the iBook Clamshell, even though the original series of iBooks at least had optical drives and on-board Ethernet.

    Most of your average users out there would not want a notebook which had a dependency on ANOTHER COMPUTER for part of it's functionality (that is, access to an optical drive). I don't think the average savvy user would appreciate having no way to connect their fancy, schmancy digital video camera to it (since the nicer ones and most all of them traditionally use FireWire, which curiously the MBA lacks.)

    And yes, I know you can buy an external optical drive for use as a local device, but since Steve was on record touting being able to glom onto another computer's optical drive, and since the whole purpose of "having less weight" would be defeated if everyone started going out and buying Apple's (or anyone elses') optical drives and sticking them in the bag with their MBAs (which are "lighter" because of being stripped of an optical drive) I feel the need to point this out.

    If anything Apple's made ever had the feeling of a "toy" or "botique" quality to it, this would be it. (And no, I'm not forgetting about the 20th Anniversary Mac, nor the G4 Cube, etc.)

    Why do you feel it's going to be a great success, I.J.? I'd really, really like to know. After all, this message board is supposed to be about the free exchange of ideas. Don't feel bashful now, I've come to expect great things from you! ;) :D :)
     
  11. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #11
    The success or lack thereof of the MBA can't be known now. That was the only point I was calling into question.
     
  12. Moderator emeritus

    EricNau

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    MikeTheC, it's clear the the MacBook Air is not for you, and that's fine, but I feel you're missing the intended market, and purpose, for this device.

    It has micro-DVI.

    I disagree, and see no reason why its a problem. If you have two computers, it makes a great deal of sense to utilize the components you already own in your desktop in order to make your portable even more portable.

    This computer wasn't designed for video-editing, so there wouldn't be many reasons to connect the camcorder in the first place.

    Sure, you may want/need to buy an external drive, but there's no reason to think you need to carry it with you. Honestly, I cannot remember the last time I used the optical drive on my MacBook.

    This computer is meant to be portable, and when you're on-the-go, it's unlikely you'd need any of the features you mentioned.
     
  13. macrumors G5

    nagromme

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    #13
    People sure have a lot of energy to spend on putting down the MacBook Air... repeating points that mean far less than they sound. See the battery poll for an example. People who weren't going to buy one anyway are spending a lot of time trying to persuade other people not to buy one... when the Air is in fact a great fit for many people! And they'll buy one despite the trolls, because they already know they don't need an internal optical/ethernet and 4GB RAM.

    (On my current laptop I haven't used any of the things an Air lacks, in a year or more. So I won't even bother buying the optical drive or ethernet adapter.)
     
  14. macrumors 68020

    LizKat

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    #14
    Bottom line: money talks louder than all the trolls.

    I said to Apple: Pls send the 1.8/ssd. Here's the money.

    Apple said: OK, thanks, you'll have it by the 11th of February.

    FedEx said: man it's snowing in Southern China, whaddup with that?

    But they got it out of Shanghai, through Anchorage, and it has departed Memphis this afternoon. It's due here on 6th February.

    So bash away. Apple got the message that actually matters. The message translates as: I like the stuff you make. Keep rolling 'em out.

    Now Apple may or may not have noticed that I skipped the MB and MBP. So? who buys every microwave oven rolled out? I think mine is from like 1997. Besides all you guys bought the MB and MBP. For my next real or pretend "desktop" machine, I'm gonna catch either an iMac or Rev C of the MBP after my old Powerbooks croak :)
     
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    MikeTheC

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    Um, Larry Ellison of Oracle would care, actually. Well, at least with regards to Oracle software because of their subscription model. Now, I don't know if they're still doing it, but they used to be quite punitive to their users if the user didn't buy every single upgrade they put out.

    Clearly, we should be grateful Apple doesn't operate in this manner.
     
  16. macrumors 603

    shadowfax

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    #16
    No, not going to burst a blood vessel, not being uncivil, I just don't appreciate you accusing a company that's been exponentially more successful than yourself of myopia with a product that you have far less perspective on than they do.

    I'm not. I was using a bit of hyperbole, which you yourself are keen on doing (e.g., telling me to calm down because I'm disagreeing with you, calling Apple myopic, calling the MBA "feature-stripped"...)

    man, I disagreed with you. It's not like I called you names. I was not one bit less civil than you are, I just directed your language at yourself.
    come on, bait and switch:


    Pesumption. I mean, I would say your average user doesn't even want a Mac for a number of reasons: You can't get it for ultra-cheap, and it doesn't come with Windows (which for whatever reason is a bad thing to ~90% of PC-buyers). But what do you really know about the average user other than your own experience?
    What percentage of people have camcorders, much less firewire ones? If you are doing digital video, you either have a desktop, or a desktop replacement laptop. There is no reason to have a Firewire port for DV on a laptop whose capacity maxes out at 80GB. Even if it were 3 mm thicker and held the 160 GB drive, you would fill that up after your first month with your camcorder.
    No, I think you're just talking nonsense. I don't even feel this is arguable, personally. It's made out of aluminum, and designed almost identically to the MacBook Pro. The white MacBook is a lot more of a toy-looking device, even though it unsurprisingly has more speed/ports/storage/user-replaceable parts. Seriously, dude, we get that you hate the MBA, but here you are taking whacks at its design, which is undeniably hallmark, classic Apple design (whatever is under the hood).
    The free exchange of ideas, but I call you out and you get all defensive. :) ;) :eek: :D
     
  17. macrumors 68020

    LizKat

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    Yeh i do remember that about Oracle releases. PITA, baby. Get settled in and blam, time to make a sandbox setup for the next one's beta.
     
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    MikeTheC

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    EricNau, nagromme, et al:
    I'm not sure why I bother to keep making the other side of the argument. Clearly you guys aren't interested in listening to it, and are unwilling to be convinced by anything I have to say, so I just give up.

    It ain't worth it anymore.
     
  19. macrumors 603

    shadowfax

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    #19
    I think I would buy the ethernet adaptor, just because it's relatively inexpensive and it's not like you can share that with another computer. The cost/benefit ratio is relatively low. But that is definitely not the case with the spare drive... For me, it's hard to find a place where I wouldn't be able to borrow a CD-ROM device on another computer to install the 5 pieces of software that are still distributed on CD/DVD only. At home, it's one of the other family computers (of which, soon, it will just be an iMac we are yet to get), or at school/work, someone's laptop/workstation. I very rarely used DVDs to install stuff. So far, it's been... Leopard, iWork, and Photoshop CS3. That's it. I need to buy a 4GB flash stick to keep all my downloaded programs on. The only thing I would miss a CD/DVD drive for is watching my videos, but I've been meaning to buy that 500 GB drive and start Handbraking them anyway.

    CD/DVD drives just break after a couple of years in my experience, anyway--even if you hardly use them, like on my 5-year old TiBook (which my wife is still enjoying with a dead CD/DVD Drive).

    LOL. I have read and listened to all of your points. I have disagreed with some, and I have shown you the faulty logic of others. Give up if you want, but we haven't been ignoring you. We've been saying, all these things you think are so important in a laptop--Optical Drive, RJ45 Ethernet connection, Firewire ports, etc.--are actually not needed for us, and we differ in our opinion about what the "average user" wants. I'm not unwilling to be convinced by you. I have read the things you have said over and over and over and over again since mid-January from columnists, bloggers, and a raging TON of angry MacRumors posters. There's no need to say we're not listening, just because we're saying something different.
     
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    MikeTheC

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    #20
    I'm not even going to dignify the preceding part of your post.

    You call me out and I get all defensive?

    Well, excuse me all to h-ll and back for having ideas and opinions of my own. It's just a pity I can't see things your way, because only then would I have a legitimate point of view.

    Thanks a lot.
     
  21. macrumors G5

    nagromme

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    #21
    I can't help noticing a trend toward logic among those who feel it can be reasonable to choose a MacBook Air, and emotion from those who feel it cannot.

    Logic and emotion are never going to come to much understanding.
     
  22. macrumors 603

    shadowfax

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    #22
    I will sort of agree, nagromme, and I truly, really don't mean to say this about MikeTheC's comments in this thread.

    I have absolutely no need for a Mac Pro. I would love to have one, but they are DARN expensive, and they are just plain hosses any way you cut it. But I don't go around getting angry (which a lot of people have about the Mac Pro as well as the MBA) when Apple releases it and it's even more geared towards big-time professionals (and hence even further from my price range). Closer to home for me, there is the Mac Mini. I would love to get one. I would get one in a second if it were a little bigger and it had a GPU (a must for a desktop that I would want to buy). But I don't think that Apple left out something that's going to make it flop. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to want a Mac Mini. I think it's great for a lot of folks. Personally, I think I will go with an iMac. I think the iMac is better, but that's just me--It's better for me.

    There is this overwhelming sense of hatred surrounding the MacBook Air. People are so mad about it, and they're all over the place saying people are dumb for buying a $1700 laptop that is crappier in every way except 2 lbs and 1/4" than the vanilla white macbook that is around $700 cheaper. And I think that's really rude and shortsighted. I think that most of these people are mad because they wanted an aluminum Macbook that was just a little bit lighter than the current MacBook, and with a GPU. And Apple didn't give them that, and they are so mad, that they just keep trying to convince themselves that nobody wants this other laptop, just because it's not the laptop they were hoping for. They seem to want the MBA to fail so that they can say to Apple, "Ha! you should have re-released the 12-inch powerbook with Intel gear like I said, you idiots. Now look at yourself!"

    And it's sad. I fully agree that the 12" PB was a really awesome little laptop (though the 768MB RAM max kinda sucked, even then), and an Intel Mac in that form factor would be highly tempting. But that doesn't negate the fact that the MBA is also a really cool computer, and, I would argue, a computer for a niche that is about the same size as the 12" PB niche, even though they are not the exact same niche.

    Again, Mike, this is not at you, but I think that a lot of MBA hating has been sour grapes, or something like it.
     
  23. macrumors 6502a

    Sayer

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    #23
    When basic facts at the beginning are wrong e.g. Apple sued ThinkSecret for coercing an Apple employee/contractor to violate their NDA not for the leaking of an audio device that may have never existed in the first place, then anything that follows will have to be suspect.
     
  24. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #24
    Sadly, the argument against the MBA sounds eerily like the reasoning used to run down the Mac, especially during the darkest days for the platform 5-10 years ago, which can be summarized as: "If I don't want one, nobody should."
     
  25. macrumors 68030

    BenRoethig

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    #25
    Which is also ironically enough also the reasoning of the hardcore Mac fans who don't want Apple to expand to other and more conventional form factors. People don't like what they don't understand.
     

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