Apple climbs to 4th place in US PC sales

Discussion in 'MacBytes.com News Discussion' started by MacBytes, Jul 20, 2005.

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  1. macrumors bot

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  2. macrumors 6502a

    dizastor

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    #2
    this halo is rapidly turning into a mushroom cloud.
     
  3. macrumors 6502

    Moonlight

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    Nickygoat

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    #4
    It's great that Mac sales are rising but are patriotic US buyers leaving IBM after their sale to Lenovo?
     
  5. macrumors 68020

    Chrispy

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    #5
    I think it is great apple is moving up the ranks. However, with the poor level of customer service many are experiencing with Apple lately they really need to get their act together in that area. I think once Apple can improve their support and quality control they will be set for eventual domination. As much as it is painful to say, Apple should take a lesson from Dell... with as many computers as they sell I have never had a problem with their support staff. Apple holds a key weapon against Dell... Mac OS X and they just have a few tweaks and bugs to work out of their sales system to become a top dog. Better support, better quality control, and faster ship times on BTO products would make Apple an unstoppable force!
     
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    devilot

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    #7
    That's how I feel too. *shaking head* I haven't had the best experiences w/ Apple support and some of the hardware (quality control). And faster ship times? An obvious plus. Well said, Chrispy.
     
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    jholzner

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    #8
    Really??

    quote from the article

    "This machine is a lemon. Your at-home and complete care service is a fraud. Your customer service is appalling. Your product is dreadful. Your brand is mud."

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/11/dell_customer_support/
     
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    mkrishnan

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    #9
    Possibly, although in the long term, Lenovo is probably *the* one to watch. I would guess there might be a little corporate skittishness, but that there may also be some issues surrounding the uncertainty of lines Lenovo wants to keep from IBM and ones it wants to replace with hardware it manufactures and so on...especially in desktops.
     
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    Sharewaredemon

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    #10

    And from that article we have this. Though I love Applecare and their support, it's funny that something you posted as evidence links to something that makes Apple seem bad.

    One thing I think is very important about Apple tech support (or most tech support out there) is to know what you are talking about, and email people with issue numbers.
     
  11. macrumors 6502

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    #11
    I"ve never heard bad things, or recieved bad care from Apple support...

    Maybe you just have a bad occourence. There will always be those.
     
  12. macrumors G5

    nagromme

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    #12
    I believe those problems happen, but luckily they are the exception: people come to forums to vent and find solutions, not to post the "all is well." So forums don't offer a true picture of statistical trends.

    In reality, Apple has the BEST support (and hardware reliability) of any PC maker, according to large-scale, repeated surveys done by Consumer Reports. FAR more effective than Dell in every category they measured.

    See:
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1261805

    But that's just the trend--there are always exceptions--sometimes really bad ones!--and bad people can be found at any company. Or good people making mistakes. I've had great experiences with Apple support, and heard plenty of Dell nightmares. But that's all just anecdotes, same as the people posting bad experiences with Apple.

    Apple may lead the industry, but that doesn't help you one bit if your experience was against the trend. Very frustrating, I'm sure, and Apple can always stand to improve.
     
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    mkrishnan

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    #13
    Nagromme, you made a lot of really good points, to which I just want to add that I think Apple leads the industry, but, especially with how these surveys work, that doesn't mean they're necessarily all that great. Just better than most others.

    It sounds like a lot of people on MR have had negative experiences recently, but, above and beyond the statistics thing (we *do* have to be really careful to differentiate anecdotes and reliable trends...) people on MR are among the more demanding customers. I think if this were dellrumors.com :D then it would still be the same that our perception of Dell customer service would be even worse than the general perception of Dell customer service.
     
  14. macrumors 68020

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    #14
    Just a slight modification. ;)

    I guess my reaction to your post is that you're splitting hairs. When it comes to an issue as variable as "Customer Support" as well as "reliablity" there is a lot of variance in what an individual feels is fair, or even excellent service. Looking at the statistics show that Apple has a strong lead, and while they're nowhere near 100% in any area, it's almost impossible to get 100% satisfaction. So, "better than most others" really does indicate "best" and/or "great" service and support.

    My $.02
     
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    mkrishnan

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    #15
    Point taken, that from a satisfaction viewpoint, Apple is very good. However, from a process quality standpoint, there are still a significant number of preventable errors -- failures of CSRs to have information available on hand, failure to adequately disperse and consistently apply policy, miscommunication on warranty authorizations, etc -- there is variability in how much these things annoy a customer, but there shouldn't be ambiguity that they are errors in the process. Even if they fail to annoy the customer, they lead to a differential cost of quality that impairs profits, at the least, and can lead to higher consumer cost, because they cause a customer interaction to require unnecessary repeat calls.

    I don't think customer satisfaction is necessarily the right metric, all by itself, to judge Apple's process in this area. There has to be a part based on problem resolution. Then, Apple is good, and sure, is better than the rest of the industry, but is not nearly perfect.
     
  16. macrumors 68020

    Chrispy

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    #16
    I agree that all companies have issue in some areas with customer service. However, my personal experience with apple has been horrible. So horrible that my workplace went back to using Dell as a result of poor quality apple products and support. For example, I was told when buying a CTO powerbook that if it had a bad pixel I could return it. However, when it did come with a bad pixel Apple denied ever saying that. Thankfully I had the name and call time and date from the conversation prior and after pulling teeth with multiple supervisors I got a return. Then the next 3 units received had bad pixels as well. To me this means bad quality control. Out of the 7 Dell laptops recently received at my company, none of them had a bad pixel. Then we decided to move to using powermacs and the same problem occured. 4 powermacs in a row were bad and verified bad by an applecare genius in store. However, Apple would not let us do a refund and only a replacement (which took forever to get done). Finally, after the 4th unit arrived dead and applecare on the phone said "they could do nothing" I got a returns rep to let me do a return. We have since moved back to being entirely Dell based.

    I ordered a Dell Dimension 9100 for doing work at home the other day and e-mailed Dell to ask what the return policy was in the event I needed to return. Dell gave me the answer and then offered me $100 back on my purchase for choosing Dell. The $100 credit posted on my charge card just a few days later... much unlike the credit I am still waiting for from apple after almost two weeks of the unit being sent back to them. grrrr

    So, as you can see here for some people Apple's support is great but for me time and time again it was horrible. I have called Dell support many times over my time at my job and they have always been excellent and very helpful. Experiences really varry I guess so for those with good experiences with Apple, rock on!
     
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    Yvan256

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    #17
    Apple isn't "American" either... all their stuff is made in China too.
     
  18. macrumors G5

    nagromme

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    #18
    I will agree that Apple is the best in a BAD industry.

    Although, as I think about most of my customer service experiences, I think other industries may be EVEN worse than the computing industry :eek:
     
  19. macrumors 68020

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    #19
    Wow. That is unfortunate.

    I guess it goes to show that it goes both ways. Obviously the stats show that your experiences occur in a minority of cases (thank goodness! Ouch!), but it's important for us "pro-Apple" folk to take notice of these instances also.

    Despite that my Apple support has been exactly the opposite (including $ credits), I hope that Apple's support gets better still.
     
  20. macrumors 68020

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    #20
    Very well put. I agree.
     
  21. macrumors 68020

    Chrispy

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    #21
    Well said. I sure hope that I am the minority for other people's sake and I am glad so many others have had great experiences with Apple. I will no doubt attempt to make the move back to Apple when the Intel products start to hit shelves for I feel the quality control may improve then. I think Apple makes beautiful products and if they keep improving in their weak areas they very well may move up the ranks to number one once again!
     
  22. macrumors 6502a

    #22
    I think this might be one of the differences.

    For my own use, I am struggling to find Apple's next day on-site service for laptops (feel free to point it out, because I want to buy it, Applecare only offers this for desktops, as far as I can see).

    Dell, by comparison, practically ram the options down your throat with support packages to support every level of use - the last support call had replacement hardware on-site and installed in less than 18 hours (evening call, delivery next morning).

    When it comes to business use, I simply don't want to be left in the lurch without hardware and am way more influenced by the service offered when things go tits up, as they can with any manufacturer. Nor do I want to be forced into buying redundant hardware or rely on trying to source rare (i.e. Apple, certainly outside the US) hardware on loan - costly, in both time or money, options for anyone especially those working alone or in small organisations. It is such an issue (80% of the people I work with use laptops only) that it could easily tip the balance in choosing a machine.

    By comparison, as a home user, I am perfectly satisfied with Apple support. A few days reverting to the PC or on an elderly HP laptop simply means a little hassle but it is no real crisis. You can always tie it it with a trip up to town (i.e. London) to drop by the Apple Store and chat with genius, check out the new gear.
     
  23. macrumors 68030

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    #23

    I don't want Apple to be number one. I like Apple as a slightly successful underdog. I want Apple trying to be number 1.
     
  24. macrumors G5

    nagromme

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    #24
    Re Dell and on-site service--I can see the need for that for businesses. My business is PowerBook-based, and I'm able to use my eMac instead if I need to ship the PB away, but that doesn't mean I want to!

    But with Dell it's especially needed... they have a 1 in 5 failure rate with laptops :eek:

    (Speaking of "best of a bad industry.")
     
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    mkrishnan

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    #25
    Glad I wasn't too snippy for you! :p ;) :eek: :D
     
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