Apple Decision: iBook vs Powerbook?

Discussion in 'Mac Blog Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jul 21, 2003.

  1. macrumors bot

    MacRumors

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2001
    #1
    MacBidouille claims that Apple is debating stopping iBook production and decreasing the price of the 12" PowerBook or simply bumping the iBooks to a faster G3.
     
  2. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2001
    #2
    iBook EOL'd? Ya right.
     
  3. macrumors 68020

    bennetsaysargh

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    New York
    #3
    they have to go with faster G3s. if they do anything, they should lower the price of the 12" PB.

    they would loose the consumer laptop market right there.
     
  4. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2003
    Location:
    SF Bay area
    #4
    The State of Maine just bought iBooks for every 7th and 8th grader and now Apple will discontinue them because they are so unpopular?

    Perhaps the iBooks are about to get a major makeover sometime in the next year or so and MacBidouille got wind of current iBooks being discontinued because of that. More likely they have completely wrong information.
     
  5. macrumors 6502a

    Jerry Spoon

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Location:
    Historic St. Charles
    #5
    There's no way. Why? The education market. iBooks are probably the most popular mac in the ed. market right now.
     
  6. macrumors 68000

    Freg3000

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Location:
    New York
    #6
    Sure...this is must be a hard internal"debate" at Apple. Lose one of our best selling products or.....um....lose the consumer notebook market? Too easy.
     
  7. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    #7
    Umm No

    Not yet at least I do believe that the iBook will eventually transition into some sort of ultra low power Pseudo-tablet/strange-little-sony-laptop, but thats still a few years out.

    ALL IMHO :)
     
  8. macrumors 68040

    applemacdude

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Location:
    Over The Rainbow
    #8
    The ibooks will not get discountinued. They will just be updated and hopefully have a diffrent design. The powerbooks will be lowered $100.
     
  9. macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    #9
    Not a chance, the minimum spec iBook has such a massive price gap between it and the PowerBook, and the iBook offers a 14" screen on a budget (compared to 15" PB).

    I'd say they're more likely to update the PowerBook 12" to bring it more in line with PowerBook standards (DESCENT SCREEN PLEASE APPLE), and continue the iBook incremental updates. Perhaps a new case? (only perhaps, minor revisions maybe)

    AppleMatt
     
  10. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2003
    #10
    bump them!!

    The problem is that the 15" is and will continue to be too expensive for people wanting a cheap laptop with a good sized screen. The 12" is just too small for many uses so lowering its price won't help.

    Discontinuing a successful product like the iBook would be bad bad news.
     
  11. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2002
    Location:
    Hollywood CA
    #11
    ??? What is wrong with the 12" screen?

    I think A DVI port, some L3 cache, and more o-the-board RAM and the 12" will REALLY turn heads.
     
  12. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Location:
    Australia
    #12
    Discontinuing - rather consolidating

    The way I read this, they're not removing a consumer laptop, but rather considering:

    1) Merging the Professional and Consumer lines as ther differences become more 'blurred' (ie dropping price of the 12" PB into a lower consumer price point) - ie merging iBook/Powerbook lines into one laptop line (with a range of performance price points based on model)

    OR

    2) Going 'Bugger it' and throwing higher performance G3s into the iBook range

    Personally, I think option 2 is the best option - why? because necessity is the mother of innovation ;) if the iBooks creep into the Powerbook range performance wise you either have to:
    a) Cripple them (very bad - I am totally against deliberate crippling on any platform)
    b) make the Powerbooks better (good :D )

    having higher performance iBooks is a good thing because:
    1) consumers get a zippy machine at low cost
    2) acts as a catlyst to increase the performance of the pro line (ie step up moves to develop higher performing G*s)

    What I don't understand is everyone complaining about how increasing the performance onf the consumer line will hurt sales. Honestly, I question the performance of the Pro machines if their consumer little brothers can mix it with them! Besides, a higher performance machine at the lower end will put more 'Butts on Seats' so to speak - because not only can Joe Avg use his email, but Joe Jr. will be playing UT2k3 etc.

    Competition (even internal Consumer/Pro competition) is always good - it's like gravity, the more Apples are out there, more and more people will switch...

    -- Dan, who will now end his zealous rant :D
     
  13. macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    #13
    Yes yes yes, I completely agree with you on these improvements (especially L3 cache, that was a crippling oversight), aswell as an improved graphics controller (or better drivers for the current one), and a faster hard-drive (can see more heat issues there however). Also faster start-up time and FW800/possibly USB 2.0.

    But something that bothers me and many others is that the PowerBook 12" is a TFT XGA screen, whereas the 'old' 15" PowerBooks are TFT screens. When you are using them for extended periods of time, the sharpness and clarity of the 15" really shines through. It's annoying that the PowerBook is pitched as a 'Pro' line, and they used the same screen as in the iBook.

    AppleMatt
     
  14. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    #14
    As long as they keep a sub-$1000 notebook around, this is fine.

    Here is what I believe Apple's product lineup should be (in case anyone gives a ****):

    cheapMac
    399
    15inch CRT
    1 GHz G3
    256 MB RAM
    20 GB HD
    CD-ROM

    coolMac
    799
    15 inch LCD
    1.2 GHz G5
    512 MB RAM
    40 GB HD
    Combo Drive

    coolBook
    799
    12 inch LCD
    1 GHz G3
    256 MB Ram
    20 GB HD
    Combo Drive

    powerMac
    Starting at 1599
    Dual 1.6 GHz G5
    1 GB Ram
    80 GB HD
    Combo Drive

    powerBook
    Starting at 1599
    15 inch LCD
    1.2 GHz G5
    512 MB Ram
    40 GB HD
    Combo Drive

    I believe this is an elegant arrangment do-able for December. I think by getting rid of the clutter and lowering prices a bit, they can double market share to the elusive 5% in one years time.
     
  15. macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #15
    Re: Make Dell happy, kill the iBook

    The question of PowerBook vs iBook it isn't.

    The iBook no longer fits in with the consumer product matrix, and is adequately represented in it's niche by the PB12.

    The question is whether Apple will keep around the iBook as an education machine, like the old CRT iMac.

    And whether the eMac will go along with it.

    OS 9 booting seems to be important in the education market.

    Of course they can always make Dell happy and kill off all the OS 9 machines.

    NOTE: The last time I brought this up, people said universities and colleges don't need OS 9 -- but I'm refering to the k-12 crowd.
     
  16. Moderator

    Nermal

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2002
    Location:
    Whakatane, New Zealand
    #16
    Drop the CRT off the cheapMac. A lot of people want a Mac without a screen.
     
  17. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #17
    I think it might be ideal to drop the ibook down to one size.
     
  18. macrumors 65816

    plinkoman

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Location:
    New York
    #18
    why? they can't get rid of the 12", it's small, and inexpensive and alot of people wan't that, they can't get rid of the 14" because alot of people want a bigger screen but can't afford a pb, it doesn't make sense to cut either of them
     
  19. macrumors 6502

    NNO-Stephen

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    #19
    why not bump the 12" Pbook to a 14" screen with some L3 Cache and solve this whole mess?
     
  20. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Location:
    Australia
    #20
    Perhaps we're thinking of this wrong...

    Maybe they're aiming to position themselves better against equivalent competitors:

    (from Slashdot - they call it a potential 12" killer):

    http://reviews.designtechnica.com/firstlook24.html

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/21/2310222&mode=thread&tid=137

    Maybe they're looking to fine tune the line to make the portables more attractive given new up-and-coming offerings by competitors

    Now, before we start talking about Win vs OSX or intel vs Moto/IBM - the consumer sees a 'laptop' - and feature wise there are competitor notebooks out there that have caught up over the past 12 months to apple features (DVD-R, firewire, battery, slimline etc).

    I put to you this may be a possible move to have a single product in each market sector (to be more competitive):

    1) Subnote (<= 12")
    2) Notebook ( <= 15")
    3) Desktop Replacement (>= 17") :D

    perhaps they're looking at this model rather than consumer/pro but rather a single line arranged in a way that there are cheap/expensive versions of all the sizes, but a single competitive wedge to drive into the market.

    -- Dan, still ranting/raving :D
     
  21. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2003
    #21
    Re: Re: Make Dell happy, kill the iBook

    The 14" iBook screen as quite large compared to the Powerbook's 12" screen. The 14" iBook also happens to be cheaper and isn't a frying pan.

    So how exactly is that niche filled?

    As to your terminology: consumer product matrix.

    The iBook IS the consumer product matrix. The powerbook is a pro model.

    I plan to buy an Apple laptop. If my choices are only the 12" powerbook and the 15" powerbook I will not be buying one.
     
  22. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2003
    #22
    Re: Perhaps we're thinking of this wrong...

    Sure, the Sony looks nice but it's a totally different class of machine. It's smaller yet it is $300 more. It doesn't have AGP graphics (only PCI). It's nice, but not exactly *killer*
     
  23. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    #23
    I highly doubt Apple would discontinue the iBook. I think they willl just add a better G3 processor. The iBooks are excellent laptops. Plus they only start at $999. It's a great deal for such a good laptop. I doubt Apple could get a PowerBook G4 anywhere near that cheap to replace the iBook.
     
  24. macrumors 6502a

    funkywhat2

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2002
    #24
    I could see that, but the difference between the 14" and the 15" may not sway some. The last thing we need is the mess from the mid 90's back - LC, Performa, PM, all with no differences. (You know what I mean.)

    I think the entire PB line, 12"-17" should move to widescreen. Keep the iBook, but drop the price on each model by $100-150. Keep the G3 in it, and drop the base price on the 12" PB by at least $100 ($200?), so that if you really need to burn DVD's, you can, but at a price.

    This way, by the end of the year, we should have this:

    iBook 12" 900 MHz
    DVD-ROM
    40 GB
    256 MB RAM
    AirPort
    $899

    iBook 12" BTO 1 GHz
    CD-RW (or Combo for +$75)
    40 GB (or 60 for +$50)
    256 MB RAM (or 512 for +$50)
    AirPort
    $999

    iBook 14" BTO 1 GHz
    Combo
    40 GB (60 GB for +$50)
    256MB RAM (or 512 for +$50)
    AirPort
    $1199

    PB 12" 1.2 GHz (L3)
    Combo
    60 GB
    512 MB RAM
    AirPort Extreme
    USB 2.0/FireWire 400
    $ 1499

    PB 12" BTO 1.2 GHz (L3)
    SuperDrive
    60 GB
    512 MB RAM
    AirPort Extreme
    USB 2.0/FireWire 400 & 800
    $1699

    PB 15" 1.2 GHz
    SD
    60 GB
    512 MB Ram
    AirPort Extreme
    USB 2.0/FireWire 400 & 800
    $1999

    PB 15" 1.33 BTO
    SD (2x)
    80 GB (100 GB for +$100)
    1 GB RAM
    AirPort Extreme
    USB 2.0/FW 400 & 800
    (Insert name of good GPU here)
    Bluetooth (+$100)
    $2499

    PB 17" BTO
    1.33 GHz G4 (1.42 for +$100)
    SD (2x)
    80 BG HD (100 BG for +$100)
    1 GB RAM
    AirPort Extreme
    USB 2.0/FW 400, 800
    (Same GPU as before. with double the memory)
    Bluetooth
    $2999

    All models would include a case, and a DVI port.


    Seem feasable?
     
  25. macrumors 68020

    bennetsaysargh

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    New York
    #25
    the reason they made the 12" Powerbook is so power users can have a compact laptop.

    i myself would like to see (for the iBooks) a case change, same screen sizes, and a faster G3, (maybe somehow put altivec in it) bluetooth, maybe Airpoert xtreme, and a better graphics card. i want a 14" screen, that doesn't cost a lot. that's what the iBooks are for.

    oh yeah, have an option for the BTO ones where you can kill OS 9.
     

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