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theOtherGeoff

macrumors regular
Jun 18, 2010
189
0
Your lack of market forecasting experience is obvious. Trying to second guess future sales is very difficult at best. Trying to do it without being able to communicate with potential future customers because of new product secrecy makes it near impossible.

Delivery delays, in retrospect, let us know how well Apple did on their SWAG. I personally think they do an excellent job. Having to wait for 4 or more weeks for a new product is something I can handle.

+1

This product came out of right field. Not an Air, but not a MacBook Pro. It's that transition product as effectively Apple is skating to where the puck will be... Effectively a 'professional laptop' that is effectively not field upgradable. Usually when you skate that far ahead... it takes a while for the puck to come to you... Little did we know that the RD coupled with SSD was the goto product for the high end professional.

Always better to be a month behind in production of a product with no competitor than a month ahead of production of a product with lots of competitors.
 

vpro

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2012
1,195
65
Agreed nonsence however big business.

Absolute nonsense!

The iPad 3rd Gen release was a testiment to Apple's distribution abilities. These shortages of Retina MacBook Pro's is unnessisary.

Why wouldn't they just announce that they would be available in a month? Would have given them time to build their numbers, as well as 3rd party app developers time to update their apps.

Instead, they announced immediate availability of the 100 [sarcasm] they actually had in stock.



Apple is all about BIG business HUGE profits and give off the impression of small business (innovative but grassroots) here for the individual consumer needs etc etc etc. When I watch their videos about the new designs etc, I do not feel sincerity or care, I see competition and rivalry within a design world which to seek constantly to dominate. Then I look at Microsoft's videos and I - well I, I just vomit.

It is all about getting you to spend, spend - spend. So spend more time outdoors and run around the fields with the butterflies while you wait, wait wait for it to get to your door step. Its not like in the "past" where you road a donkey for miles and miles to pick up your order from "Orange". ;)
 

xVeinx

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2006
361
0
California
So the consensus is that if you're a "pro," "legit," "real" user then the rMBP sucks because it doesn't have the capacity to theoretically upgrade to parts you never will, or run "elite" software that performs best on a workstation, while the imbecilic masses are most apt to "enjoy" the hardware?

Seriously? If people say they aren't having issues and love the hardware, great! If it doesn't suit your needs, that's ok too; Apple or another company probably have something that do. If the rMBP is truly having an issue (beyond the fact that the 20 people having issues post their problems while the rest are less apt to post), that is unfortunate, and will probably be corrected.

Not everyone will be happy with how Apple produces/launches/designs the hardware. I get that. But sitting around and telling people that they're less than worthless because they aren't having the problems that you theoretically would (because after all, you aren't actually buying the machine) is almost as pointless as me bothering to post this.
 

JAT

macrumors 603
Dec 31, 2001
6,473
124
Mpls, MN

thewap

macrumors 6502a
Jun 19, 2012
555
1,360
So the consensus is that if you're a "pro," "legit," "real" user then the rMBP sucks because it doesn't have the capacity to theoretically upgrade to parts you never will, or run "elite" software that performs best on a workstation, while the imbecilic masses are most apt to "enjoy" the hardware?

Seriously? If people say they aren't having issues and love the hardware, great! If it doesn't suit your needs, that's ok too; Apple or another company probably have something that do. If the rMBP is truly having an issue (beyond the fact that the 20 people having issues post their problems while the rest are less apt to post), that is unfortunate, and will probably be corrected.

Not everyone will be happy with how Apple produces/launches/designs the hardware. I get that. But sitting around and telling people that they're less than worthless because they aren't having the problems that you theoretically would (because after all, you aren't actually buying the machine) is almost as pointless as me bothering to post this.

In actuality its not pointless for pro mac users to disagree or question the direction their favorite company is heading. The point of this forum and others is to express their likes or dislikes and informs other people who question the validity, usefulness, and serviceability of a newly released product. Whether or not one is a customer of the rmbp has no relevance to the fact that we are all apple customers with their own opinion on how Apple is changing with the non- pro MacBooks whether you like it or not.
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
For those of you questioning the intentional shortage business model Apple uses, it works. It creates desire and purchase rush, out of thin air, on a product that is otherwise just the next one.

Yes there are also components in short supply which are ramping, but that will enter supply-demand balance at some point.

By releasing the product when they have enough units to serve the estimated first week or two of sales through all "selected channels", they get enough out there so all leading edge adopters show the units to everyone else. The rest of folks order or not, and simply wait till they can get it first come first served.

The resulting constant shortage condition keeps the product in the news and blogs and provides a sense of popularity, true or not.

Apple products meet the popularity test on a post facto basis, so there is no sense of "false claim".

But the shortage is managed in a sense that they determine the release date based on production capacity and known channel sell-through.

More to the point, it works. They have a negligible marketing cost which they largely shift to the retail build out capital costs, and nearly zero discounting. That all flows right to the bottom line of the balance sheet.

Rocketman
 
Last edited:

pacman7331

macrumors regular
Apr 5, 2006
177
0

Please note that product availability can change rapidly, and it is possible that your order may ship much sooner than we anticipate. You may even receive a shipment confirmation between the time we send this email and the time that you read it.

Sounds like things are really overwhelmed to the point of chaos. Good thing this is about tomorrows computer rather than today's meal like is the case in Greece:http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/06/20/247181/greeks-queue-for-food-handouts/
 

JohnDoe98

macrumors 68020
May 1, 2009
2,488
99

And what if Apple actually has so much demand they don't even need to play these games because it happens automatically? For my part I find this far more likely.

Checkng serial numbers it looks like production began two weeks before the Keynote. Those units sold out on the first day. My unit, which I received one week after the Keynote, and which I ordered immediately after the Keynote when the Canadian store opened a few hurs after the Keynote, was produced the week of the Keynote. It looks to me they are shipping them as fast as they can produce them. Perhaps one could say rather than build up a two week lead inventory they should have waited longer, but I see no big benefit in doing so.
 

thewap

macrumors 6502a
Jun 19, 2012
555
1,360
For those of you questioning the intentional shortage business model Apple uses, it works. It creates desire and purchase rush, out of thin air, on a product that is otherwise just the next one.

Yes there are also components in short supply which are ramping, but that will enter supply-demand balance at some point.

By releasing the product when they have enough units to serve the estimated first week or two of sales through all "selected channels", they get enough out there so all leading edge adopters show the units to everyone else. The rest of folks order or not, and simply wait till they can get it first come first served.

The resulting constant shortage condition keeps the product in the news and blogs and provides a sense of popularity, true or not.

Apple products meet the popularity test on a post facto basis, so there is no sense of "false claim".

But the shortage is managed in a sense that they determine the release date based on production capacity and known channel sell-through.

More to the point, it works. They have a negligible marketing cost which they largely shift to the retail build out capital costs, and nearly zero discounting. That all flows right to the bottom line of the balance sheet.

Rocketman

Kind of reminds me of Exxon Mobile and oil shortages
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,835
7,396
I dont agree. I do not necessarily believe that tech innovation and advance or design dictates the need to seal computers.

OK then. Be the next Steve Jobs and prove the world wrong.

But the reality is the vast, vast, majority of consumers don't fantasize about opening up their machine. They get what they want when they buy and then upgrade the entire machine when they need more - typically years later like any other appliance. Innovation IS in design and usability now. Designing thinner, lighter machine is where the money is going. That requires engineering even smaller, more custom components rather than off-the-shelf.

As for "planned obsolesce" Apple has been doing that way before computers like the Air showed up. Whereas Windows XP is still (barely) supported by M$, Apple's oldest supported OS is 4 years old. The original 2006 MacBook Pro can't run 10.7, and that is a user upgradable machine. So you don't need to seal a machine to guarantee its quick obsolescence.
 

Bubba Satori

Suspended
Feb 15, 2008
4,726
3,756
B'ham
Thanks for the report.

Michael Reichmann at the Luminous Landscape gave the RMBP
a very positive report in his photographer's perspective of the computer.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/macbook_pro_retina.shtml
Did you read it? That's got to be the emptiest review I've ever seen. It does have some nice speed reports. His conclusion sums that up nicely:

'There isn't much more to say for now.'

Don't be insulting. Of course I read it.
And I linked to it for those interested in a photographer's perspective of the RMBP.
I sorry you didn't like his review. Your refund is in the mail.
 

thewap

macrumors 6502a
Jun 19, 2012
555
1,360
OK then. Be the next Steve Jobs and prove the world wrong.

But the reality is the vast, vast, majority of consumers don't fantasize about opening up their machine. They get what they want when they buy and then upgrade the entire machine when they need more - typically years later like any other appliance. Innovation IS in design and usability now. Designing thinner, lighter machine is where the money is going. That requires engineering even smaller, more custom components rather than off-the-shelf.

As for "planned obsolesce" Apple has been doing that way before computers like the Air showed up. Whereas Windows XP is still (barely) supported by M$, Apple's oldest supported OS is 4 years old. The original 2006 MacBook Pro can't run 10.7, and that is a user upgradable machine. So you don't need to seal a machine to guarantee its quick obsolescence.

Again I do not agree. When Applecare runs out within 3 years, failed ram, hard drive, battery or any other failure will require costs equivalent to buying a new notebook. Apple will not repair them they will replace them which is not in anyway eco or serviceability minded or economically the same. Old hardware users still have a choice to use old OS's, therefore the secondary market flourishes on ebay and other used wares providers (good luck selling the rmbp on ebay or anywhere when Apple care is out or even close to it). So there is a distinct difference. As far as usability now in the field..God help the mobile pro who is not near an AppleCare center Apple Care or not.
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,835
7,396
Again I do not agree. When Applecare runs out within 3 years, failed ram, hard drive, battery or any other failure will require costs equivalent to buying a new notebook. Apple will not repair them they will replace them which is not in anyway eco or serviceability minded or economically the same. Old hardware users still have a choice to use old OS's, therefore the secondary market flourishes on ebay and other used wares providers (good luck selling the rmbp on ebay or anywhere when Apple care is out or even close to it). So there is a distinct difference. As far as usability now in the field..God help the mobile pro who is not near an AppleCare center Apple Care or not.

Yes I get it -- you don't agree. You like how computer boxes have been for the past 30 years and think that tradition should continue, and that's fine. But it's not thinking out of the box -- that connotes doing something different, not the same old. The same old is the box. The Air, the iPad, the RMBP, are different than what we've seen in computers the last 30 years.

But the fact is all these components you list statistically fail within the first year if they are going to fail. The odds go down precipitously after that time. It's a poor reason not to design for the living rather than a worst case scenario that may or may not, probably will not happen. Of the dozens and dozens of Macs I've owned I've had one DOA PM, on PB, and on MBP that had issues, but never out of warranty.

It's pure speculation as to what the RMBP will sell for off-warranty since it hasn't occurred yet. But other sealed products like the iPad seem to sell fine off warranty. I've sold a couple on eBay. If the buyer wants a warranty they can Square Trade at time of purchase on eBay.
 

thewap

macrumors 6502a
Jun 19, 2012
555
1,360
Yes I get it -- you don't agree. You like how computer boxes have been for the past 30 years and think that tradition should continue, and that's fine. But it's not thinking out of the box -- that connotes doing something different, not the same old. The same old is the box. The Air, the iPad, the RMBP, are different than what we've seen in computers the last 30 years.

But the fact is all these components you list statistically fail within the first year if they are going to fail. The odds go down precipitously after that time. It's a poor reason not to design for the living rather than a worst case scenario that may or may not, probably will not happen. Of the dozens and dozens of Macs I've owned I've had one DOA PM, on PB, and on MBP that had issues, but never out of warranty.

It's pure speculation as to what the RMBP will sell for off-warranty since it hasn't occurred yet. But other sealed products like the iPad seem to sell fine off warranty. I've sold a couple on eBay. If the buyer wants a warranty they can Square Trade at time of purchase on eBay.

At least you agree that I do not agree... good luck with the resale value of the rmbp.
 

jackrabbit

macrumors newbie
Dec 3, 2010
8
0
Beaufort NC
oops

I tried that too at Crabtree. They must like you more. Anywho, my 2.7/16/768 is due this Friday. Enroute from China right now.

They sent only the magsafe to magsafe 2 connector today......after calling the support line they indicated still 3-4 weeks on the RMBP....
 

aloshka

macrumors 65816
Aug 30, 2009
1,437
744
I returned my Pro. Didn't appeal to me that much. The hype dies in the first week after you play with it.

It's a great machine though. I just prefer the Air.

If its your primary computer, it's not hype. If air is all the power you need, I dont think you were the taret audience for the new rmbp
 

JAT

macrumors 603
Dec 31, 2001
6,473
124
Mpls, MN
Don't be insulting. Of course I read it.
And I linked to it for those interested in a photographer's perspective of the RMBP.
I sorry you didn't like his review. Your refund is in the mail.

Relax. I'm just pointing out he didn't say anything. Not much "perspective" at all.
 

jbolden1517

macrumors newbie
Mar 11, 2011
29
0
ram vs. SSD

For what's its worth. I ordered the 16g model but only 256 SSD, about 30 hrs after released. Shipped today.

So if there is a problem it is with the SSD and not the ram.
 

jbolden1517

macrumors newbie
Mar 11, 2011
29
0
I partially agree, but I'm a little less paranoid than you seem to be. I think Apple's change in design has primarly to do with an obsessive-compulsive desire to have a tiny and elegant form factor. Secondarily, it has to do with providing enough benefits (sync of all devices, now that people are using so many devices) to force people into the Apple eco-system, which also makes the cost and difficulty of switching to a different eco-system and therfore a competitor's devices, very high.

My problem with Apple has more to do with the architecture/form factor that forces high-cost, non-replaceable SSDs over low-cost HDs,

That's not just the form factor. There are substantial performance differences between SSD and HDD. A say $2k external Small Business HDD (essentially near top of the line for Apple's target) array can do about 100MB / sec, the standard SSD on the RMBP can do 450. Once you can assume very rapid reads, you can start to design software and OSes in ways you couldn't when people could be using HDD with 40 mb/sec best case. Form factor obviously plays a part, but I think the push towards SSD has much more to do with application resume and away from paradigms that developed in the world of dual floppy drives.

The upgradable storage for the RMBP as well as the optical is external. I'm getting myself a nice BluRay writer for not very much and it will sit on my desk for whenever I need to do anything. I have a 1.5TB slow but highly portable drive for portable data. Etc...
 

thewap

macrumors 6502a
Jun 19, 2012
555
1,360
Yes I get it -- you don't agree. You like how computer boxes have been for the past 30 years and think that tradition should continue, and that's fine.

Refreshing my memory on how computer boxes have been the last 30 years.. (yes Im getting old and dotty) you do realize that the mass produced computers of the early eighties had soldered ram and non replaceable drives? :D
 

xVeinx

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2006
361
0
California
In actuality its not pointless for pro mac users to disagree or question the direction their favorite company is heading. The point of this forum and others is to express their likes or dislikes and informs other people who question the validity, usefulness, and serviceability of a newly released product. Whether or not one is a customer of the rmbp has no relevance to the fact that we are all apple customers with their own opinion on how Apple is changing with the non- pro MacBooks whether you like it or not.

The point you make has little to do with my post. I'm not arguing that there isn't room for disagreement, questioning Apple's methodologies, etc. My point is that the "verbal" bludgeoning of anyone who ISN'T questioning Apple at every point or who dares to say that their MBP works nicely for them is overkill. I understand that having some people say that their machine is working nicely doesn't mean that the rMBP has no problems; however, the reverse is also true. Things have a tendency to be blown out of proportion, and the constant use of hyperbole gets old over time.

If you are going to question something, then question it. Don't attack the people who disagree with you--state your reasoning, counterpoints, etc. and be done with it.
 
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