Apple Europe and Cinema Displays BEWARE

Discussion in 'Buying Tips and Advice' started by cinemafraud, Sep 29, 2006.

  1. cinemafraud macrumors member

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  2. rdowns Suspended

    rdowns

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    #2
    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Did you call Apple or the store you bought it at and ask for it to be exchanged? Your web site provides no details and you are already talking about a class action suit. Give me a break.
     
  3. cinemafraud thread starter macrumors member

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    #3
    Of course I called, and they won't replace it for a brand new model with advertised specifications. Will you be happy to buy a Core 2 Duo Mac and receive the previous model? I don't think so.

    They only offered a refund and it's not a solution because I don't have a replacement screen. Wire transfers refunds usually take +2 weeks to be effective after they have received the product. But that's not the point. They are advertising a model that is not being sold, and according to my country laws that's not legal.

    As you may notice, more people are being affected and I have received reports in less than 24 hours since the site was online.
     
  4. rdowns Suspended

    rdowns

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  5. cinemafraud thread starter macrumors member

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    #5
    Apple Store Spain. I have the invoice and can provide you a copy if requested.
     
  6. j26 macrumors 65832

    j26

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    #6
    Just to let you know that you are skating on thin legal ice, my friend.

    You are alleging fraud which, if false, could be libel. If you have a complaint (which you do - getting the wrong display is a valid complaint), you would be much better off using less absolute language - such as I believe that a fraud may be being committed. That's opinion rather than a statement of fact, and reduces the likelihood of you being exposed. Fraud is a criminal offence, and as such is a serious allegation to make. Be careful making it.

    Have you contacted Apple yet? If not, tell them that you want the display replaced, and that you expect some form of refund for the inconvenience of having to do without a display because of their error. What will you gain from a lawsuit? Very little. European courts are reluctant to give punitive damages, so the most you are likely to get is an order that Apple replace the display, or refund the difference in value.

    Edit: I see you have contacted them. Try again and tell them unless you get satisfaction, you will be reporting them to the relevant authorities. Ask to speak to a manger, rather than one of the normal reps.

    It is worthwhile to make a complaint to your Consumer Protection Agency. Then if the agency sees a number of complaints, they can initiate their own investigation, and bring procedings as they see fit. Don't expose yourself by being a lone crusader on this.
     
  7. vincebio macrumors 6502a

    vincebio

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    #7
    apple said they were addressing that issue shortly....there is another thread about this already.

    they pointed out that they only sold them in the US at the moment...probably due to stock reasons.

    the crap thing about it is that they hsould be offering the older spec models at a lower price
     
  8. cinemafraud thread starter macrumors member

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    #8
    Yes, I contacted them and they only offer a refund. They will not replace it for the actual advertised product.

    I don't think I am at risk since it is a very clear case of misleading advertising.

    By the way, I have all required documentation that proves this fraud and has been filled at my Consumer Protection Agency.
     
  9. cinemafraud thread starter macrumors member

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    #9
    Not really. I already bought a Cinema Display on August and had the same issue. I had a Cinema Display 20" as replacement and did proceed for a refund, however I got quite upset for that.

    This is the second time it happens to me and this time I don't have any replacements backing me up. The situation is not acceptable and I'm sure more people is having the same issues but perhaps they didn't even notice since panel is the only thing that changed and the rest remained the same.

    By the way, why Apple does not state model specifications on the box? :mad:
     
  10. j26 macrumors 65832

    j26

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    #10
    Misleading advertising is not the same as fraud. Believe me, be careful on the wording you use.

    Have you told them you will report them to the relevant authorities? Have you spoken to someone higher up? The front line staff usually have little discretion on these matters.

    I have my own reasons for irritation with Apple (price drop on iPods - which wasn't given to my until I fought it out with them), but I would be careful about making allegations, which if they turn out to be false, expose you to risk.

    Your documentation is evidence, not proof. Fraud would only be proved by a crinimal investigation, trial ad conviction.
     
  11. vincebio macrumors 6502a

    vincebio

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    #11
    it is indeed, false advertising....and thats why you were offered a refund.

    they are not selling the new spec machines here yet, only US. therefor, you are not going to get anything other than a refund im afraid.

    accusing apple of fraud is dangerous...

    my advice is to take the refund, as your are just plain NOT going to get a new screen as they are not to sell them here yet.

    apple will be updating the spec sites for the UK and Euro websites very shortly...

    what do you want?
     
  12. cinemafraud thread starter macrumors member

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    #12
    Well, thanks for the advice but I just want the advertised model, accepting a refund will leave Apple selling obsolete models priced as new and won't really fix this situation. I already printed the specifications so Apple can update whatever they want.
     
  13. miniConvert macrumors 68040

    miniConvert

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    #13
    The updates were minor IMHO, and the previous model is by no means obsolete. While I understand your frustration I think you're blowing this way out of proportion.
     
  14. cinemafraud thread starter macrumors member

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    #14
    It doesn't matter if those updates were minor. Apple is not allowed to advertise new specifications and provide old stock instead under my country laws.

    It's not about proportions. It's just not right.
     
  15. steve_hill4 macrumors 68000

    steve_hill4

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    #15
    Unusually for Apple, they have kept the model numbers identical and merely changed the internal specs and prices. You can't check this number to see if it's old or new, only the specs on the box.

    I noticed no new ACDs on our system at work, but the old ones had come down to the new prices. This makes sense from not changing model numbers.

    I'd prefer the new to old and turn brightness down if needed, but how could I tell before buying? It's really a bit of a con. After all, you go to the Apple website, select the UK site and check the advertised specs and they are new. If indeed in Europe they are only selling old models at the moment in order to shift inventory, that is mis-advertising.
     
  16. hush macrumors member

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    Madrid, Spain
    #16
    I can't believe some attitudes

    Believe me, I am shocked!!!

    I cannot believe people, consumers, saying this problem is not so important... Do you think Apple is your mom or what? It's just a company, seeking for profit, not for your happiness... just that.

    If this company is cheating people it must be known. In Spain misleading advertising is a criminal offence, so I don't think this guy is taking any risk.

    C'mon, probably you are not worried because it doesnt affect to you, but think of happening to your new ipod, or your new laptop or whatever in the future... we must help to stop this kind of crappy enterpreneurial practices.

    And please, don't be a sheep, that's just on Aplle benefit.

    p.s.: I was going to buy an ACD 23", now I will go on other models in the market, for the same price you can get better ones.
     
  17. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #17
    Image on your website

    I don't have much knowlege of the Spanish legal system, but if you do intend taking on Apple in the courts I would recommend you remove the image from your web site, which is hosted at http://images.apple.com/displays/images/indexdisplay23in072106.png.

    Ignore this if Apple have actually given you permission to use it :rolleyes:
     
  18. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #18
    And I can't tell the differnce between old and new.

    Specification envy and remorse.
     
  19. cinemafraud thread starter macrumors member

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    Sep 29, 2006
    #19
    You are right, I have replaced it with a picture of my own desktop. If everything were so easy to fix...

    Dear sir, as a matter of fact my previous 20" Cinema Display (now sold) had better color calibration and was brighter than this 23", 2005 assembled model that Apple illegally sold me. I have also seen a 20" Core Duo iMac who had a stunning display and no problems at all as well but we finished selling it.

    I also doubt you have managed to see a new specification 23" Cinema Display compared against the previous model. How can we contrast your information?

    Next time, if Apple sells you a Core Duo Mac and you paid for a Core 2 Duo, do nothing about it, okay? And if it happens to you twice, after waiting a month for it, keep quiet as well.
     
  20. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #20
    In the OPs defence, I'd probably be upset as well, but only if they're advertising one set of specs, and giving me something else.
     
  21. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #21
    What is "better color calibration?" What ICC profile are you using?

    Did you use a spectometer?

    What are you using the display for?

    I did - a colleague has two of them in his office. SIDE BY SIDE.

    Throw in a red herring for good measure, why don't you?

    I guess I just get tired of people whining about specs they most often cannot visually tell the difference between.
     
  22. iMeowbot macrumors G3

    iMeowbot

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    #22
    And you turned it down? At that point you have accepted the merchandise fully aware of the actual specifications.
    That is where the refund money would have come in handy.
     
  23. cinemafraud thread starter macrumors member

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    Sep 29, 2006
    #23
    This one has pink hue. I was using default profiles in both ACD. Brightness is the most noticeable. I had a 20" iMac Core Duo and usually four points was plently to have a decent white. With this display I actually need minus 3 points which obviously points to 270 cd/m2 of the late 2005 model.

    Since it was paid using Wire Transfer it will take two weeks since they receive the unit. Two weeks without a display is not a realistic option.
     
  24. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #24
    If it has a pink hue, then it is defective, which has nothing to do with old specs/new specs. No calibration will fix that, even if you use a Gre-Tag Macbeth or Spyder.

    You can't seem to separate the two. If it's defective, it's defective.

    The standard color profiles stink.

    So what does the pink hue have to do with old specs versus new? Are you saying all the old spec monitors are defective? :confused:

    What do you want them to do?
     
  25. cinemafraud thread starter macrumors member

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    #25
    Let me explain, please notice English is not my native language so accept my apologies in advance if I do a mistake.

    Pink hue was a very common issue regarding late 2005 ACD model. It is defective, yes, but it is not the real problem.

    The real problem is Apple advertising new ACD specifications starting early August. Once I find it published at their website I order one and I receive a Late 2005 model. I ask for a refund and I patiently wait a month to order again, this time to replace my ACD 20" who will be sent the same day I receive the new one.

    Then I got screwed. Pink hue again, a LOT of backlight leaking and screen brightness is a joke and the 20" ACD gone. After calling AppleCare they confirm me this is a November 2005 model and then I call customer relations support to ask for a Mid 2006 model. They won't do that. Since it is the second time I lose my patience, time and money I start all this cinemafraud.com thing.

    So far there are three people affected by this case. Two in Spain and one in UK.

    These ACD have inferior specs. Brightness is the most noticeable thing, but also vision angle and of course those know problems like pink hue, backlight leaking or ghosting.

    Hope this post makes this thing more clear. Cheers.
     

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