Apple Expressing Frustration as Tax Incentives for Austin Expansion Remain in Limbo

[jay_app]

Why give tax breaks to the most profitable corporations in the world? The local authorities have to provide infrastructure, etc., and get no revenue?

1) Corporation are owned by the shareholders, the executives and the board have a responsiablity to the shareholders to be efficient with every penny.

2) A state, town, or county does not have to give tax breaks to anyone or any corporation. They do so in order to get the huge benefits of increased tax revenue from the future employees. Its a small trade off. Otherwise the business may leave to another area that is more business friendly.

 

[509]

In Idaho, a steel company wanted to relocate to Lewiston.

The city was willing to work on zoning, permitting, and other issues. The company then asked about tax breaks.

The reply was along these lines...." we would love to have you as part of our community. However, being part of the community means paying taxing and supporting the services that we provide to you and your company".

Shame on Apple. I understand bottom line. That's why they make their products in China. And why I always buy from small businesses that support the community I live in whenever, possible.

 

[Zaphodsplanet]

They should go 5-10 north to Williamson County

Austin/Travis county is notorious for reneging on deals. What do you expect from a bunch of hard core liberal/progressive commies? If you're rich or your company is doing well, come to Austin so they can stick it to you. That's what liberals/socialists are all about. Stick it to the man. Class warfare under the guise of being "fair". Never mind if you provide an area with thousands of jobs, if you made the mistake of having a company in a liberal area they are going to soak you for as much as they can because they think it's fair. If Apple moved 5-10 miles north to Williamson Co/Round Rock (conservative area)whatever deal they made would be the deal they got. Austin is insane. Far too many dope smokers. Can't wait to leave this godless, self-indulgent cesspool.

 

[numlock]

Have you heard of the phrase "you have to spend money to make it"? This is what is going on here.

Austin and Travis County have to give a little to get more. They did it with every major corporation that is in the area. Think of it as a prenup agreement that can open the door to more money.

i have heard of that phrase. im not sure its original intention was meant for cheap companies like apple.

im just worried about the future where major corporations can continually push and threaten like this.

 

[gotluck]

Not really. They take more in federal aid than they give in taxes.

So that's the barometer of a state's health eh? I'd like to hear who is in better shape than Texas. You better not say california

 

[hetrigger]

Austin/Travis county is notorious for reneging on deals. What do you expect from a bunch of hard core liberal/progressive commies? If you're rich or your company is doing well, come to Austin so they can stick it to you. That's what liberals/socialists are all about. Stick it to the man. Class warfare under the guise of being "fair". Never mind if you provide an area with thousands of jobs, if you made the mistake of having a company in a liberal area they are going to soak you for as much as they can because they think it's fair. If Apple moved 5-10 miles north to Williamson Co/Round Rock (conservative area)whatever deal they made would be the deal they got. Austin is insane. Far too many dope smokers. Can't wait to leave this godless, self-indulgent cesspool.

Please tell us how you feel, and don't hold back!

 

[IJ Reilly]

2) A state, town, or county does not have to give tax breaks to anyone or any corporation. They do so in order to get the huge benefits of increased tax revenue from the future employees. Its a small trade off. Otherwise the business may leave to another area that is more business friendly.

I can't see where you've read any of my posts on this subject, which refute every part of this argument. The truth is, local governments are forced to gift taxpayer's money to corporations because they threaten to locate elsewhere if they don't. Extortion by any other name is still extortion.

Apple, like any other corporation, has internal reasons for making its locational decisions. Proximity to other facilities, cost of land, cost of construction, labor market, etc. They keep all of these locational criteria close to the vest even as they threaten to go elsewhere if they don't get a big gift of public funds to build where they'd already decided to build. They do it because they can. It is no cause for joy for anyone but the corporation.

 

[iScott428]

Oooohhh. Inquiring minds want to know. Please provide a list of the "terrible products" that oil companies and healthcare industries make...

How about hybrid cars, Bio Diesel, The Chevy Volt, Prescription drugs. But staying on topic, its about running a profitable business and if governments do not promote good businesses they will leave. Some one posted earlier that money is very sensitive and will move where there is least resistance.

 

[foodog]

that applies to every workplace and every workforce.

Correct but using tax breaks to entice a company to create new jobs in an area raises the revenue, and make a happier community.

 

[d0vr]

It's not the tax break it is the work. 3200 jobs is important to the people living in Austin. Get over the hate for Apple.

Yup, 3200 new jobs = 3200 new taxable incomes.

 

[hetrigger]

But you cant give a better deal to Apple or all the other companies will be coming back to get theirs. Apple may be asking for much more than what was given to the other companies in the area.

You are correct. Though, we are not privy to what the contracts have in them, I am sure the phrase: "if you give a better deal to someone else, we want the same". It could be in there, but I doubt it.

 

[iScott428]

haha seriously, those companies make products we need

apple makes products we want

I live just fine without a hybrid car, prescription drugs, and well I give it to you we need oil because there is no other option really to get around the majority of this country.

But I need my iPhone, I do a lot of business off of it. I need my Mac bc I will not be forced to use a PC or I guess you are suggesting people just want computers and dont really need them?

I do love that you admit Apple makes products we want, and the other companies make you believe they make products we need. I see it the other way around.

 

[Thunderhawks]

In Idaho, a steel company wanted to relocate to Lewiston.

Shame on Apple. I understand bottom line. That's why they make their products in China. And why I always buy from small businesses that support the community I live in whenever, possible.

No, shame on you! for not reading up on the fact that the products Apple and many other US companies make cannot be made in the US in the numbers needed.

NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE including qualified engineers.

State of education in the US.

As for taxes I like what George Carlin used to say: (paraphrasing)

The rich don't pay taxes
The middle class pays all the taxes and
the poor class is there to remind the middle class
where they will be if they don't pay the taxes.

 

[gotluck]

NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE including qualified engineers.

I think you mean not enough people willing to live in dorms on call 24/7 for an incredibly repetitive manufacturing process for far below the us minimum wage.

 

[Konrad]

When corporations often receive special treatment, the local citizens have to fight for variances, permits, pay set costs for the overregulated local governments often ridiculous processes. I would say, the hell with it, unless you give overyone the same break. Whether you employ 3600 people or just 2 should not make any difference.

 

[gotluck]

small businesses are better for society

 

[brianbauer04]

How much does a customer support person get paid at Apple? My guess is nowhere close to what an engineer or software developer gets paid.

These are probably hourly jobs (fairly good ones at that); not anything that would increase Austin's standing as a tech mecca, except to be able to say "Apple has X+3600 employees here" without saying anything about what they do.

If I were Austin, I wouldn't give tax breaks for anything but the best jobs. Texas doesn't need any more people punching the time clock. They've got plenty. They need more exempt professional jobs.

 

[509]

Yup, 3200 new jobs = 3200 new taxable incomes.

Texas does NOT have an income tax.

I hear your argument on American education.

Here is Washington, Boeing and Microsoft get tax breaks that are not available to other businesses. They also complain about the lack of state support for higher education for the trained professionals they need for their companies.

BTW a friend has a software startup. He pays FIVE times the tax rate than Microsoft does on their products. Why shouldn't he pay the same rate as Microsoft??

You think there might be a correlation between state support for higher education and tax revenue??

 

[Rocketman]

If they just say forget it and locate in AZ, they will be closer to their government and southwest growth markets. If they locate neat Tuscon they would be close to government customers. When TX withdraws from the US they will still be in the US.

Based on the Austin aerial view the first thing they should build is a large parking structure so they can use more land for offices. Heck, buy a parking lot on the other side of town, build a parking structure there too and install a PRT like they want to in Cupertino.

Rocketman

 

[hobo.hopkins]

It would be incredibly foolhardy for Texas to risk losing this deal. Why they would shoot themselves in the foot is beyond me.

 

[GermanyChris]

As NJ public schools prove, the education system doesn't need more money it needs fixed.

Tracking will go along way to fixing the system.

 

[IJ Reilly]

How much does a customer support person get paid at Apple? My guess is nowhere close to what an engineer or software developer gets paid.

These are probably hourly jobs (fairly good ones at that); not anything that would increase Austin's standing as a tech mecca, except to be able to say "Apple has X+3600 employees here" without saying anything about what they do.

If I were Austin, I wouldn't give tax breaks for anything but the best jobs. Texas doesn't need any more people punching the time clock. They've got plenty. They need more exempt professional jobs.

Ironically the city and county are bargaining with Apple to bring them entry-level (read: low-wage) jobs. One of the hangups seems to be whether Apple would agree to fill these positions with local people. (How anyone would even track this is impossible to say. Maybe the new hires would have to present valid Texas passports.) In the end Apple can get away with little or no accountability in exchange for their 60% property tax rebate, and that in fact seems to be the main point of contention.

 

[hetrigger]

Texas does NOT have an income tax.

I hear your argument on American education.

Here is Washington, Boeing and Microsoft get tax breaks that are not available to other businesses. They also complain about the lack of state support for higher education for the trained professionals they need for their companies.

You think there might be a correlation between state support for higher education and tax revenue??

This is true...but, consider this: We pay federal taxes. We pay sales taxes. We pay property taxes.

This is how services and education (lottery helps on this, too) are paid for. After I read an article in the Austin Statesman, the jobs are geared towards the "lower" income and unemployed people. How "technical" it gets is not clear.

If they decide to bless off on the "incentive", the wages will be taxed, families will prosper, and sales taxes on items purchased. This will not only happen to Travis County, but, to surrounding counties. There is a spiral affect as well.

As said in a previous post, it is not just the 3600 jobs directly from Apple, but, it will add more jobs that support the facility as well.

 

[d0vr]

I hear your argument on American education.

I hear your argument for it as well. After all, only an American would believe all internet users live in the USA. That they don't have income tax surprises me though. Thanks for informing me.

 

[Gasu E.]

Apple is unhappy with the state of taxes in the State of Texas.