Apple Facing Class Action Lawsuit Over 'Error 53' iPhone 6 Bricking

[SirCheese]

Apple has every right to disable the phone if something risky is installed on it.

No, they don't. And they will be hit hard over this.

 

[DevNull0]

I thought the only thing a Touch ID sensor does is spit out a hash code after it read your fingerprint. Everything else is handled by the "secure enclave". So what possible security impact could some rogue sensor have?

Apple needs to clarify this because now it doesn't sound like Touch ID is as secure as they promised.

It can't send a hash code. It would be possible to intercept the hash value with a logic analyzer and resend it later. The TouchID sensor itself has to encrypt the data before sending.

The issue this is supposed to deal with is what if someone builds a rogue TouchID sensor that sends the encrypted value but also stores the unencrypted value? But the correct response from Apple should have been to disable TouchID, not brick the phone. And even if you remove the touchID sensor and install a simple button the phone still gets bricked.

 

[C DM]

This SHOULD be more like your car doors not unlocking because you tried a cheap fob knockoff. So you use your key (passcode) and you are on your way. But to disable your car because of this is absurd.

I should note I DID buy a knockoff fob for my F350 truck that one time didn't work--and my keys were locked inside the truck (I was kayaking). Ironically, like my iPhone, my truck has passcode entry so it was a non issue. But if this was like Apple my truck would have been disabled, period.


Mike

But the cheap knockoff would likely not work with the immobilizer in the car, which means you wouldn't be able to start the car.

 

[MH01]

You've invented a ridiculous scenario out of whole cloth that is completely different from the reality of this situation.

If your Touch ID "wears out" and has to be replaced you take it to Apple and they replace it.

If you have a third party put an unapproved, potentially unsafe and insecure Touch ID sensor on your phone Apple employees are no longer authorized to work on it.

As I see it Apple's only sin here is not being clear on the ramifications of being stupid enough to let the electronic equivalent of a shade tree mechanic put unauthorized parts on your phone. If they want to diffuse the situation they should offer to replace the counterfeit parts with genuine Apple parts and re-enable the phone. At the phone owners' expense.

I've invented nothing, you have not bothered to do your research.

Have you even bothered to research under what conditions error 53 occurs ?

My scenario of it wearing out = malfunctions due to usage.

Just read this.

http://www.dailydot.com/technology/what-is-error-53-iphone/

 

[gnasher729]

If you can prove its an inherent fault via an independent report after 6 months.

Most important, the six years is the limit how long after a purchase you can complain. So if your iPhone breaks after 7 months and you can prove it is Apple's fault, you can leave it in your drawer for five more years before complaining, if that's what you want to do. It doesn't mean you have much rights if your phone breaks after five years.

On the other hand, I read the the geniuses are advised to handle it like this: Check the phone. If you _think_ it is Apple's fault, fix it. Even if you are sure that the customer cannot prove it. (Obviously if the genius is well trained then it should be rare that he thinks it's not Apple's fault, but the customer can prove that it is). Relatives took devices to the Apple Store quite far out of warranty, and the genius basically checked that there was not a scratch on the device and replaced it. One reason to look after your kit.

 

[Tinmania]

Pretty much the same terms for my Car and home appliances - If I a backyard mechanic replaces parts in my car and it fails - the dealer will not warranty it and I probably will need to bring it to them in order to have it properly fixed and pay the big bucks. Our cars can be Bricked as well

Actually it is not "pretty much the same." If your "backyard mechanic" fixed your car and your car worked just fine, only to be disabled the next time you went to the dealer for routine maintenance, the dealer could very likely be liable. If the dealer then told you there was not nothing they can do and you need to buy a new car it would be borderline criminal.



Mike

 

[jamezr]

I don't know why they would completely brick the phone. If security is the issue then why isn't it detected after the repair? It is only discovered after a software update. That is bad security!
If Apple feels the security of TouchID is compromised...then why not just disable TouchID? problem solved. Now you have to enter you pin to unlock the device and enter your password fro any applications that used your fingerprint as authentication. Of course Apple Pay world not work as well.
It could just issue a warning upon reboot that these services were disabled due to the part replacement.
But to brick the phone is not warranted IMHO.

 

[MH01]

No more concerning than a situation, say, where the CPU fails whilst out of warranty.

You are talking about a hardware issue that is catastrophic and kills the device, not the same thing. An iPhone can function perfectly without the Touch ID enabled.

I don't want a device that bricks as soon as non critical components fail.

 

[SirCheese]

The phones are not theirs to brick.

This is the most important part certain people here fail to understand.

 

[gnasher729]

We took it to Apple and they said they would not be able to repair it, and instead they would need to replace the phone paying the replacement fee. They said the Warranty on the phone has been voided and repairs could not be made. They could not guarantee a repair because they would not know what piece of hardware on the phone is failing. So I ended up paying for a replacement phone for him.

Do you mean you paid the "out of warranty repair" fee, which is usually about half of the cheapest version of a model (no matter which version you have)?

 

[Zellio]

Actually it is not "pretty much the same." If your "backyard mechanic" fixed your car and your car worked just fine, only to be disabled the next time you went to the dealer for routine maintenance, the dealer could very likely be liable. If the dealer then told you there was not nothing they can do and you need to buy a new car it would be borderline criminal.



Mike

I really wish Microsoft or some other company tried this ******** before Apple just so I could see everyone here condemn hardware renting.

 

[LogicalApex]

Fortunately, in this country the why is immaterial. The car company can't make your car inoperable because you don't use oem parts. The car company can void your warranty and refuse to work on your car. It's your property, not theirs.

The only exception to this is with the car's immobilizer system. The car company can make your car inoperable for replacing parts from the anti-theft system with non-OEM parts and even if you use OEM parts that aren't "coded" to your car by the dealer or car maker.

The immobilizer system is required by US law on all cars made after 1994 and have been made increasingly more complicated as years have gone by. This is why my Mercedes will not work with a key that I didn't purchase from the dealer and was coded for my car and shipped from Germany... OEM or not.

A third party mechanic also can't order the anti-theft parts from the dealer and install them in my car. They have to be ordered and installed by the Mercedes dealer and coded to the car. Otherwise, if the car ever stops working because its system detects the part doesn't work with the anti-theft system the problem is on my end not the OEM.

You're allowed to use any parts and repairs you want in the US unless that part or repair causes a failure. If that part is responsible for the failure of the warrantied item the OEM is not responsible for honoring the warranty on the item. So the OEM would have to prove that an aftermarket light killed your engine, but if they can that aftermarket part can void your warranty...

 

[DevNull0]

But the cheap knockoff would likely not work with the immobilizer in the car, which means you wouldn't be able to start the car.

But what Apple is doing is more like if the cheap keyfob works perfectly, but Apple detects it's a cheap knockoff and then permanently disables the entire car, so that not only will it not work with the knockoff, it won't work with the real Apple keys either. And will be unrepairable.

 

[dk001]

Actually I disagree with your thinking here. By having the phone be altered in any way, regardless of warranty, it puts the original manufacturer in a position of not being able to hold up their end of being able to make exceptions due to their inability to just get it fixed properly.
Case and point: as a former FRS (mobile tech) there was a customer who would bring his iPhone in with a "broken" home button. As it turned out, he frequently visited the store. We let him do it several times, then after seeing his repeated visits. He was tampering with the phone by going in and disconnecting it himself in order to get a new phone. I'm pretty sure he was selling them.
We finally had to tell him that we couldn't do anymore after that one.

I can agree in part with your reasoning however it appears Apple has "blindly" applied this irrespective of use of TouchID and with no warning or documentation that this could occur nor that error 53 really existed. Either way, this isn't about "warranty" for the 6/6+ as a number of posters and "reporters" are referencing.

 

[sualpine]

No, I'm saying flat out that an unauthorized SPI input device cannot compromise the secure enclave, which is what you claimed.

If it could, then iOS has a HUGE problem way, way beyond the fingerprint sensor.



The reason you cannot debate my response is because the enclave cannot be compromised in this way.

Now you're changing your scenario away from a compromised secure enclave, to a possible buffer overrun or denial-of-service attack on the main CPU.

Look it's okay to admit that you actually meant something else. Geez. It's obvious to any engineer. No harm, no foul.

I didn't change my scenario at all.

 

[LogicalApex]

But what Apple is doing is more like if the cheap keyfob works perfectly, but Apple detects it's a cheap knockoff and then permanently disables the entire car, so that not only will it not work with the knockoff, it won't work with the real Apple keys either. And will be unrepairable.

This is already the case with Mercedes cars with their key fob. Non-coded key fobs won't work... OEM or aftermarket...

http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/the-high-cost-of-losing-your-keys.html

My Mercedes has a SmartKey that is impossible to get aftermarket.

 

[DevNull0]

I really wish Microsoft or some other company tried this ******** before Apple just so I could see everyone here condemn hardware renting.

The problem is Timmy's Apple is way more anti-consumer than MS ever was. I don't think even at their peak arrogance would MS have had the balls to do something like this. Imagine if they detected a fake windows and burnt out your CPU to protect you from the viruses that come with pirated software.

 

[sualpine]

You're missing the entire point. Did I say they shouldn't be making checks?

I said the SPI bus allows many devices at once. I didn't say Apple has many devices connected. And why do you even think Apple should be making checks on every device connected. Again you think it has something to do with the SPI bus automatically needing security? TouchID is a security device who's data is part of Apple's secure enclave so these checks make sense. The SPI bus could also connect to the bluetooth module for wireless headphones. You think that should have the same encryption? It probably does connect to the GSM modem. You think that should have the same encryption as touchID?

You're arguing so strongly when you have no idea about the issue you're arguing about. It must be hard to have blind faith in something you don't even understand. Will your brain implode if you take a moment to look up SPI on wikipedia and try to understand what you're arguing about?

Lay off the personal attacks or get reported, tough guy.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Can you share a link to where you found that information?
[doublepost=1455293102][/doublepost]

It's my sarcastic take based on my experiences with class action lawsuits of any kind.
Put in any amounts you like.

I think I got mail for about 6 or of them. Some Airlines, some Banks not given proper exchange rates
from European travel, mortgage incorrectly calculated, Honda, where if what was sued for had indeed caused fatalities (Received $ 1.08 yay), Toyota (Run flats), Chrysler, even Apple was in one of them ((I think about graphics cards)

The ones that required looking for receipts and repair invoices, I threw out right away.
Vouchers off airlines always were still more than finding deals.

All in all these suits are pathetic and the number of people who actually were inconvenienced are never
as high as the damages the lawyers cause.

I wouldn't mind if somebody other than the lawyers slapped manufacturers hands and had authority to issue rulings.

Say: Apple has to replace all the bricked phones and submit revised notification procedures warning consumers when they switch on that phone.

 

[bingeciren]

This SHOULD be more like your car doors not unlocking because you tried a cheap fob knockoff. So you use your key (passcode) and you are on your way. But to disable your car because of this is absurd.

I should note I DID buy a knockoff fob for my F350 truck that one time didn't work--and my keys were locked inside the truck (I was kayaking). Ironically, like my iPhone, my truck has passcode entry so it was a non issue. But if this was like Apple my truck would have been disabled, period.


Mike

Not just disabled, it would be irreparable (write-off) and Ford would be telling you that you need to buy a new truck.

 

[DevNull0]

This is already the case with Mercedes cars with their key fob. Non-coded key fobs won't work... OEM or aftermarket...

http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/the-high-cost-of-losing-your-keys.html

My Mercedes has a SmartKey that is impossible to get aftermarket.

Did you even read what you replied to? That article is about how expensive OEM Keyfobs are. I said Apple's method is like permanently disabling your car. Not refusing to start until you get a proper key.

 

[dk001]

Not everywhere. http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/
Under consumer laws in the UK, consumers are entitled to a free of charge repair or replacement, discount or refund by the seller, of defective goods or goods which do not conform with the contract of sale. For goods purchased in England or Wales, these rights expire six years from delivery of the goods and for goods purchased in Scotland, these rights expire five years from delivery of the goods.

Thanks for the info
Force of habit - I tend to comment based on US law sometimes forgetting other countries

 

[Zellio]

This is already the case with Mercedes cars with their key fob. Non-coded key fobs won't work... OEM or aftermarket...

http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/the-high-cost-of-losing-your-keys.html

My Mercedes has a SmartKey that is impossible to get aftermarket.

Thanks for that, no one was aware that losing your key and having to get another one, or going to a locksmith who knows how to replace one, meant that the car WAS PERMANENTLY DISABLED.

Another crappy car analogy

 

[LogicalApex]

Not just disabled, it would be irreparable (write-off) and Ford would be telling you that you need to buy a new truck.

Well a truck can be $50K an iPhone $0.7K. You don't see Apple spending weeks holding your phone for a lengthy repair like a car dealer would... They just swap the whole device out...

 

[dk001]

So has anything new or interesting or useful come up in this thread compared to the last two (each over 30 pages long) about all of this from just days ago?

Or is this basically just rehashing the same things over and over for the nth time?

Rehash.
Haven't seen anything new other than the confirmation that the first of the lawsuits has been filed in the US for the 6/6+ and 3rd party repairs. More coming I'm sure.