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MH01

Suspended
Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,297
Not surprised . I hope it's a wake up call to innovate and at least update thier existing products on a regular basis.

One bad quarter is fine, it's when you have consequative had quarters. Given thier profits are tied up to one product , the iPhone 7 needs to be a major update .
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,723
964
Not surprised . I hope it's a wake up call to innovate and at least update thier existing products on a regular basis.

One bad quarter is fine, it's when you have consequative had quarters. Given thier profits are tied up to one product , the iPhone 7 needs to be a major update .
they are forecasting consecutive bad quarters

the sad thing is apple under tim cook has historically been a horrible company when it comes to appeasing shareholders. All the better for apple to buy back shares.
 

MH01

Suspended
Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,297
No I am glad Apple changed for the better, at least if you are going to tell me what I said, paraphrase correctly. I don't agree with your point of view and time will tell.

Can I ask from a consumer of apple products what is better under cook ?

The mini was crippled on purpose, macs are not upgradable anymore , base storage is 16gb in 2016, premium iMac comes with HD, bloated product lines, thier best iPod axed and the software quality has gone downhill etc.

From 2005 since I've owned apple products each year they have got better and better, under cook I've seen greed trump the push for innovation.

given the quarter results, time is telling us that things are not right.....apple fans complaints on these forums are now being reflected in profits. Another bad quarter for a company that gets 65% of its revenue from one product and things will get interesting, though this time round there is no Jobs to save them, is expect even a bigger bloated product range based on the same products as a responce. Apples best product offering is when they had 1 or 2 products in each category, followed by storage choices, not the silly 5 choices we now have.
[doublepost=1461737250][/doublepost]
they are forecasting consecutive bad quarters

the sad thing is apple under tim cook has historically been a horrible company when it comes to appeasing shareholders. All the better for apple to buy back shares.

They have a major problem in that they have not innovated any new products, and have instead just introduced new version of existing ones, and the strong US dollar means the products are too expansive outside of the US for incremental upgrades.

For instance I view the iPad Pro, as actually the iPad Air 3, but the price is way too much for what it is over my iPad Air 2. Giving it a pro name and upping the price is greedy, and I'm happy to stick to my air 2.
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,723
964
Can I ask from a consumer of apple products what is better under cook ?

The mini was crippled on purpose, macs are not upgradable anymore , base storage is 16gb in 2016, premium iMac comes with HD, bloated product lines, thier best iPod axed and the software quality has gone downhill etc.

From 2005 since I've owned apple products each year they have got better and better, under cook I've seen greed trump the push for innovation.

given the quarter results, time is telling us that things are not right.....apple fans complaints on these forums are now being reflected in profits. Another bad quarter for a company that gets 65% of its revenue from one product and things will get interesting, though this time round there is no Jobs to save them, is expect even a bigger bloated product range based on the same products as a responce. Apples best product offering is when they had 1 or 2 products in each category, followed by storage choices, not the silly 5 choices we now have.
I can see you're an apple fan and I totally respect your opinions on apple products.

i do find it alarming that you would mix stock performance with apple as a company. not even steve jobs can operate a company that grows indefinitely. In fact, he didn't for the longest time.
 

Dave245

macrumors G3
Sep 15, 2013
9,751
7,968
Can I ask from a consumer of apple products what is better under cook ?

More choice for one, the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus offered a choice in terms of screen size, that's exactly what people had been asking for. In fact this has caused more Andriod users to switch over.
The iPad Pro I think is great, I currently own the 12.9" with Apple Pencil and it is great for a lot of things, including drawing taking notes and so on, in fact the Apple Pencil has been called the best stylus on the market, and let's not forget that the Apple Pencil is a first for Apple. Also in regards to the 9.7" iPad Pro it currently has the best display in any tablet according to reports and tests. Now you may not like Cook but personally I think he's doing fine at Apple.

http://www.techinsider.io/ipad-pro-97-has-the-best-mobile-display-2016-4

http://bgr.com/2015/12/01/iphone-6s-vs-android-switch-2/
 
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MH01

Suspended
Feb 11, 2008
12,107
9,297
More choice for one, the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus offered a choice in terms of screen size, that's exactly what people had been asking for. In fact this has caused more Andriod users to switch over.
The iPad Pro I think is great, I currently own the 12.9" with Apple Pencil and it is great for a lot of things, including drawing taking notes and so on, in fact the Apple Pencil has been called the best stylus on the market, and let's not forget that the Apple Pencil is a first for Apple. Also in regards to the 9.7" iPad Pro it currently has the best display in any tablet according to reports and tests. Now you may not like Cook but personally I think he's doing fine at Apple.

http://www.techinsider.io/ipad-pro-97-has-the-best-mobile-display-2016-4

http://bgr.com/2015/12/01/iphone-6s-vs-android-switch-2/

The iPhone 6 Plus and iPad Pro 12.9 are good editions, I agree .
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I can see you're an apple fan and I totally respect your opinions on apple products.

i do find it alarming that you would mix stock performance with apple as a company. not even steve jobs can operate a company that grows indefinitely. In fact, he didn't for the longest time.

It's still the best tech company, but I don't want it to go the way of Sony.
 

alexgowers

macrumors 65816
Jun 3, 2012
1,338
892
50:1 consecutive quarters of YOY increases. Better than any company has performed in recent history i should imagine.
 

luismarques89

macrumors newbie
Dec 29, 2015
11
0
Not that big of a deal.

This.
Who cares if Apple's revenue droped a few percentage points?
Specially when profits keep so high. 10 billion dolars?
Specially when Apple's sitting on a ton of unused money.
What does Apple want all that money for? If and when profits disapear, will Apple use all that money to finance operations? No, when profits disapear, Apple will cut costs as all other companies.
Shareholders demand dividend payments when there's profit, right? So, why don't they inject money when there're not profits?
 

navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,914
5,138
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Who cares if Apple's revenue droped a few percentage points?
Shall we look at actual numbers?

• iPhone: 51.193 million units, $32.857 billion revenue (vs. 61.170 million, $40.282 billion YOY / -16% units YOY, -18% revenue YOY)
• iPad: 10.251 million units, $4.413 billion revenue (vs. 12.623 million, $5.428 billion YOY / -19% units YOY, -19% revenue YOY)
• Mac: 4.034 million units, $5,107 billion revenue (vs. 4.563 million, $5.615 billion YOY / -12% units YOY, -9% revenue YOY)
• Services: $5.991 billion revenue (vs. $4.996 billion YOY / +20% YOY)
• Other Products*: $2.189 billion revenue (vs. $1.689 billion YOY / +30% YOY)

Services is growing because of Apple Music but since Spotify are yet to make actual profit off that, I would love to know if Apple somehow does. Other Products includes the Watch and revamped Apple TV, but actual revenue increase is 0.5 billion while loss on iPhone alone is 7.5 billion. Also:

Apple is providing the following guidance for its fiscal 2016 third quarter:
• revenue between $41 billion and $43 billion

2015 Q3:
The Company posted quarterly revenue of $49.6 billion and quarterly net profit of $10.7 billion, or $1.85 per diluted share.

WE don't need to care. Apple, however, should.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,098
23,744
Gotta be in it to win it
Shall we look at actual numbers?

• iPhone: 51.193 million units, $32.857 billion revenue (vs. 61.170 million, $40.282 billion YOY / -16% units YOY, -18% revenue YOY)
• iPad: 10.251 million units, $4.413 billion revenue (vs. 12.623 million, $5.428 billion YOY / -19% units YOY, -19% revenue YOY)
• Mac: 4.034 million units, $5,107 billion revenue (vs. 4.563 million, $5.615 billion YOY / -12% units YOY, -9% revenue YOY)
• Services: $5.991 billion revenue (vs. $4.996 billion YOY / +20% YOY)
• Other Products*: $2.189 billion revenue (vs. $1.689 billion YOY / +30% YOY)

Services is growing because of Apple Music but since Spotify are yet to make actual profit off that, I would love to know if Apple somehow does. Other Products includes the Watch and revamped Apple TV, but actual revenue increase is 0.5 billion while loss on iPhone alone is 7.5 billion. Also:

Apple is providing the following guidance for its fiscal 2016 third quarter:
• revenue between $41 billion and $43 billion

2015 Q3:
The Company posted quarterly revenue of $49.6 billion and quarterly net profit of $10.7 billion, or $1.85 per diluted share.

WE don't need to care. Apple, however, should.
Of course Apple cares. Th question is: is this the start of the doomsday scenario or a blip.
 

Benjamin Frost

Suspended
May 9, 2015
2,405
5,001
London, England
That's very true. They may not be able to find a person who's exactly like Jobs but may be close in quality.

When MS promoted Nadella to CEO, Apple should have removed Cook right away to keep up with the shift in thinking and progress. Their biggest mistake was letting Cook stay on board. Nadella may not a Steve Jobs but the man is sharp and understands what is needed to keep Microsoft going and competitive.

I think the difference is that Nadella has the balls to delve into projects such as HoloLens to make a difference and explore new ways while Cook played it safe. You can also feel Tim's personality reflected off the Apple products that seemed "off".

It's his lack of taste and design sense that's hurting Apple, including Jony who is apparently "checked out". I'm a creative myself and I can smell his sense of being burnt out, staying stale.

Jony should have left Apple and gone independent with his work. That way, he could approach any project he wants to get his hands on. Going independent will broaden his horizon while staying in Apple cripples it.

They need to also not let Williams take over as CEO. I sense something going on between him and Cook as if he's hand picked to continue the " Cook Agenda ". Can you smell it? It's almost as if they have secret lives together.

Very perceptive comment re Williams.

I think I might sell my Apple shares if he became CEO. He really rubs me up the wrong way.
 

Pilgrim1099

Suspended
Apr 30, 2008
1,109
602
From the Midwest to the Northeast
Very perceptive comment re Williams.

I think I might sell my Apple shares if he became CEO. He really rubs me up the wrong way.

If Williams becomes CEO, he might even make it worse. He and Cook come from a very similar background and something doesn't smell right to me about those two.

I wouldn't have minded if Craig became CEO. He's not a bad choice even if his track record isn't perfect. At least, he's the most honest out of all of them and has the gift of talking.
 

American Hero

Suspended
Jan 25, 2016
564
593
If Williams becomes CEO, he might even make it worse. He and Cook come from a very similar background and something doesn't smell right to me about those two.

I wouldn't have minded if Craig became CEO. He's not a bad choice even if his track record isn't perfect. At least, he's the most honest out of all of them and has the gift of talking.

Steve Ballmer will be Apple's next CEO, you heard it here first.
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Come on Apple. Get to $90 per share!!! Fall baby fall!

Was hoping Apple could drop to a penny stock for a mere 5 minutes so I can buy a bunch of shares.
 

groovyd

Suspended
Jun 24, 2013
1,227
621
Atlanta
They compare the numbers to the previous years quarters, not the previous Quarters.

This is done because there are cyclical times during the year where sales are less, and then there are points in the year where they spike. This is why Year over Year growth is reported on, Not Quarter by Quarter.

They're expecting revenues to be down during the same reporting period from last year.

right and i am too... 2012 3rd quarter is higher then 2013 3rd quarter judging by the graph shown.
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Optical illusion?

The two bars in the chart are actually the same height, because their values are so close:

2012 Q3 = $35.0 billion
2013 Q3 = $35.3 billion

by the skin of their teeth, must be an optical illusion
 

Benjamin Frost

Suspended
May 9, 2015
2,405
5,001
London, England
Contrary to what you believe, I am a fan of Apple but I am willing to criticize them when they make stupid decisions and sadly, they've been doing a lot of that in recent years. I don't want Apple to fall back to how they were in the 90s, but history always repeats itself.

I think Tim Cook's legacy (or lack thereof) will be how he let the company stagnate, deteriorate in quality in some ways and focused more on maximizing the profit margins and the overall bottom line. He's not a visionary or forward thinker the way Jobs was, Apple needs someone like that otherwise we get just another CEO for just another tech company. Apple needs a true leader, someone willing to genuinely carry the vision and legacy of Steve, not abandon it or pull 180s because it won't make as much money. Cook is not the right guy for the job in that sense, I mean his skills are as a bean counter, not dreaming about changing the world, he's just coasting on the success that the dreamer built for him.

You seem to be glad that Apple has changed for the worse in some ways under Cook, as if everything that happened under Jobs didn't matter. He's the reason why they became so successful, you think Cook could've saved Apple from near bankruptcy? Didn't think so. Sure Jobs would be pleased at the overall financial success of Apple, but that's Cook's only area of expertise. I think he would be appalled about how the product lineup got so bloated and out of focus, one of the first things he did as CEO was streamline a convoluted product lineup and now greedy Cook undid that. Steve would've also been disappointed with Cook's decision to fire Scott Forstall, and considering how the quality of the software fell apart (both inside and out), it's no wonder why Scott was as valuable as Jony. Speaking of Jony, Jobs seemed to be the only person that had the balls to criticize Jony when needed. I can't imagine Cook ever telling Jony that a particular design of his looks like ****, Cook most likely has little to no involvement in the development and creation of any of their products, he probably just blindly signs off on anything that's presented to him. Jobs knew when to say no even if feelings got hurt.

Finally, Cook needs to stop saying stuff like "Apple will always be Steve's company" or "His DNA is our foundation" if all he's gonna do is the exact opposite of what he would've done.

I wanna support Apple and root for them, but it's getting harder and harder to do so. I was always the one who wanted all of my friends to go Apple and I was always the one who would think so highly of them and their products. I can't delude myself as some of the hardcore fanatics here, the Apple I grew to love is gone. Yeah, the good times are over and it's hard to accept that but knowing that Apple is capable of doing so much better than they have been in recent years is why it truly bothers me. People like you are why Apple has begun its downward slope, because you've convinced yourself that Apple is incapable of making mistakes and subpar products from time to time. Sure Apple under Steve Jobs wasn't 100 percent flawless, but there was a genuine effort in their focus to make great products to change how we live for the better. That's not evident under Cook and Apple desperately needs its mojo back and I hope they find it sooner rather than later.

Superb post.

You represent the spirit of the true Apple: Steve Jobs' Apple.
 

LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458

Now that we have numbers: We can update and do some further comparisons on "Other" and the watch.

the "Other Category" was only 4% of this quarter's revenues. Reducing the "Other" category (Which includes Accessories, Apple TV and watch) to 4%. 4% of revenues is 2.0B dollars for this whole product category.

in 1st Q 2015, the "Other Category" (DId not include the watch since it only launched in April 2015) was 4% of 58Billion, which equates to 2.32Billion.

So for the April Quarter, 2016 saw a decrease of "Other" revenues by about $300,000 WITH the Apple Watch included in this.

That means between Accessories and Apple TV. Something has decreased dramatically in this category. Either their accessories have stopped selling, The Apple TV has failed, Or the Watch isn't selling. or some combination of the 3 product categories in "other" seeing dramatic decreases, considering the increase in products in this category.

so yes. As of right now, the Apple Watch isn't as big a success as believed, and looks like has sold very little in the last quarter
 

Benjamin Frost

Suspended
May 9, 2015
2,405
5,001
London, England
If Williams becomes CEO, he might even make it worse. He and Cook come from a very similar background and something doesn't smell right to me about those two.

I wouldn't have minded if Craig became CEO. He's not a bad choice even if his track record isn't perfect. At least, he's the most honest out of all of them and has the gift of talking.

Yep.

I like Craig, and think he would make a good leader.
[doublepost=1461770847][/doublepost]
Now that we have numbers: We can update and do some further comparisons on "Other" and the watch.

the "Other Category" was only 4% of this quarter's revenues. Reducing the "Other" category (Which includes Accessories, Apple TV and watch) to 4%. 4% of revenues is 2.0B dollars for this whole product category.

in 1st Q 2015, the "Other Category" (DId not include the watch since it only launched in April 2015) was 4% of 58Billion, which equates to 2.32Billion.

So for the April Quarter, 2016 saw a decrease of "Other" revenues by about $300,000 WITH the Apple Watch included in this.

That means between Accessories and Apple TV. Something has decreased dramatically in this category. Either their accessories have stopped selling, The Apple TV has failed, Or the Watch isn't selling. or some combination of the 3 product categories in "other" seeing dramatic decreases, considering the increase in products in this category.

so yes. As of right now, the Apple Watch isn't as big a success as believed, and looks like has sold very little in the last quarter

Thanks for the comparison.

To add to the jigsaw: Cook said at the call yesterday that the watch had outsold the original iPhone in its first year. The iPhone sold 5.4 million in its first year. That suggests that the watch has sold perhaps 6 million in its first year. I consider that to be a terrible start, way below even conservative estimates. Yes, that's a guess, but if it had sold substantially more, I'm sure Cook would have used a different comparison.
 

Pilgrim1099

Suspended
Apr 30, 2008
1,109
602
From the Midwest to the Northeast
Superb post.

You represent the spirit of the true Apple: Steve Jobs' Apple.

It's just now becoming clear to me that Jony plays a big part in not being unchecked. Everyone in Apple is probably afraid to keep Jony's visions in a balanced manner, even though most of the industrial design is being done by his staff.

Obviously, he can't do it all himself but is directing the designs over the crew to get the results he wants.

And then Cook would OK it without pushing Jony more on better alternatives.
 

SAIRUS

macrumors 6502a
Aug 21, 2008
814
507
You are shorting a tech company trading at P/E of 11 with nearly 35% of the stock price backed up by cash? That is brave.

I'm holding it long term.
I have some I'm going long, bought a long time ago. That said I watch a lot of fluxes and what not and have hard rules on sales, but it just works.
 

mcfrazieriv

macrumors 65816
Jan 30, 2012
1,100
2,830
I believe there will be many bad quarters ahead for Tim Cook at the helm. They might not come as consecutive bad quarters but the good vibes that he's felt will begin to fade as the only thing he's really been good at are numbers. After the numbers continue to disappoint the people who hold large positions in stocks, eg: Carl Ichan (whom I dislike terribly) will begin to call for the replacement of Tim Cook. Because Apple is a publicly traded company with leaders paid mostly in stock options and performance bonuses, the company will continue to buy back stock with it's cash on hand to artificially inflate stock numbers as well as purchase smaller companies. This will most certainly play out well for time sensitive performance based stock vestings, which Cook has plenty... and he'll most certainly (along with other senior VP) cash out their holdings.

Eventually the company will ask Cook to step down and once he steps down they'll place someone even worse in the drivers seat who will be forced by the shareholders to attempt to cut losses (fire people), sell off retail locations and other non-liquid assets and kill product lines that don't make sense by the numbers. This will be sad days because it will most certainly cause Apple to look nothing like it does today and most of the management that remained after Jobs will have left. I imagine all those pretty temple like glass palaces they've built around the world will look beautiful as Burberry stores minus the white Apple at the front... oh wait, weren't these redesigned to remove those now?

I'm sure there will be those that reject these ideas simply because Apple still posts more profits in single product lines than most other companies entire businesses... however, that's not the way the world works... when profits continue to fail to meet expectations of greedy wall street, no matter who you are they will ask you to resign - Steve Jobs included. History repeats itself folks.
 
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Atlantico

macrumors 6502
May 3, 2011
477
172
BCN
Ha-ha. You must be joking about Windows 10. All that data slurping that is going on is just obscene. Microsoft wants to be Google Mk 2.
Do you like having adverts displayed on your screens saver?
Do you like not having any say about the installation of update?
What are you going to do when Windows becomes a pay monthly service?
Please, pleae tell us.

No, no joke. It's the best desktop/mobile OS out there. No ads, not on screensavers or... well nothing you claimed has any truth to it, so why even bother.

Mac OS/iOS sends metrics back to Apple, like Windows 10 does. I have as much say about installation of updates as I have on Mac OS. What will you do when Mac OS becomes a monthly pay service?
 

MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,275
3,696
Your point about area of improvement is odd. There is always area for improvement. Citing hardware spec improvement as the main example is ridiculous. I guess if someone held a pencil up to your face and asked you how you'd improve it you'd cite ways to improve that specific idea, rather than replacing the idea with one never before seen.
.

If you go back to '96 and look at Apple products you can see how much you can improve. CPUs, GPUs, displays, media, software, you name it.

The place where I can see a lot of improvement in for Apple now is services, some apps (iTunes), and Mac Pros. As for macbook pros for some reason they don't want to upgrade those, not lack of innovation I guess.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,098
23,744
Gotta be in it to win it
I believe there will be many bad quarters ahead for Tim Cook at the helm. They might not come as consecutive bad quarters but the good vibes that he's felt will begin to fade as the only thing he's really been good at are numbers. After the numbers continue to disappoint the people who hold large positions in stocks, eg: Carl Ichan (whom I dislike terribly) will begin to call for the replacement of Tim Cook. Because Apple is a publicly traded company with leaders paid mostly in stock options and performance bonuses, the company will continue to buy back stock with it's cash on hand to artificially inflate stock numbers as well as purchase smaller companies. This will most certainly play out well for time sensitive performance based stock vestings, which Cook has plenty... and he'll most certainly (along with other senior VP) cash out their holdings.

Eventually the company will ask Cook to step down and once he steps down they'll place someone even worse in the drivers seat who will be forced by the shareholders to attempt to cut losses (fire people), sell off retail locations and other non-liquid assets and kill product lines that don't make sense by the numbers. This will be sad days because it will most certainly cause Apple to look nothing like it does today and most of the management that remained after Jobs will have left. I imagine all those pretty temple like glass palaces they've built around the world will look beautiful as Burberry stores minus the white Apple at the front... oh wait, weren't these redesigned to remove those now?
Or the iPhone 7 will be the blockbuster that it should be and Apple will end up the calendar year with some positive financial surprises.
 
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