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Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
The Internet is designed to route around blockages.

While expensive, you can put in your own "fat pipe" backbone and route around it - guaranteeing, if you like, "common carrier" access. Yes, you can compete.

Methinks there is a huge potential in ad-hoc networking, building cheap WiFi devices which would be installed by common folk and operate entirely outside any ISP's control. On a large enough scale, they would compete well with ISPs. Pity WiFi router manufacturers didn't include such capability (a simple matter of software) in their products.

http://projectmeshnet.org/ and also http://wiki.projectmeshnet.org/Getting_started

Disclaimer: I only know the community exists and don't really know much about it.
 
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DipDog3

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2002
1,191
812
Apple knows this is the future of the internet. Better to pay up now & get cheap long-term contracts signed instead of waiting on everyone else.
 

Solver

macrumors 65816
Jan 6, 2004
1,220
3,192
USA
I suspect the internet will look more and more like the roads. With toll lanes, toll bridges, fast lanes, speed limits, pooling lanes, bus lanes, official lanes, side lanes, stop lights, stop signs, crossing gates, barricades, more taxes, licenses and registration. Things will slower for most and you will have to pay to be fast tracked.
 
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DipDog3

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2002
1,191
812
How come with TV, providers have to pay for content.

But with the Internet, providers get paid to carry content.

Why is the Internet backwards?

It would be like ESPN paying Comcast to carry their channels.
 
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PBG4 Dude

macrumors 601
Jul 6, 2007
4,267
4,478
My understanding is CDN and paying ISP's for faster delivery are two different things?

The CDN is paying for a direct connection to Comcast's network, for example.

The CDN can pay Comcast and get hardware dedicated to delivering Their content, or come through the public portal with everyone else.

Average Netflix transmission rates on Comcast's network double within a month of their deal. That probably sent out a clear message to the big content providers.
 
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b0fh

macrumors regular
May 14, 2012
152
62
The Internet is designed to route around blockages.

While expensive, you can put in your own "fat pipe" backbone and route around it - guaranteeing, if you like, "common carrier" access. Yes, you can compete.

Methinks there is a huge potential in ad-hoc networking, building cheap WiFi devices which would be installed by common folk and operate entirely outside any ISP's control. On a large enough scale, they would compete well with ISPs. Pity WiFi router manufacturers didn't include such capability (a simple matter of software) in their products.

WTF are you smoking? Your pipe comes from your ISP, unless you are hooked up directly to the Internet backbones. How are you going to be a "common carrier"?! How the hell would an entire neighborhood running your magical WIFIs give you anything beyond what your ISP is going to give you? ALL OF YOU ARE STILL GOING OUT OVER THE SAME DAMNED PIPE
 

jayducharme

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2006
4,529
5,973
The thick of it
I don't think Apple really gives a crap about net neutrality.

I think they do. But there's only so much control they have over the poor decisions made by the FCC. The government is the entity that's supposed to protect the public's interests. The government is failing to do that.

So what's Apple supposed to do? When they're pushing security updates totaling hundreds of megabytes or asking people to download the latest OS that totals many gigabytes, do you think users will bother if the downloads take days because the ISP is choking the connection? Apple is moving to protect its business model -- one it created under the assumption that the Internet was an all-you-can-eat feast.
 
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Jett0516

macrumors 65816
Mar 5, 2010
1,001
878
And after the deal...Apple will past on the fee to users by raising the price of songs, movie rentals, and icloud membership.

And after the deal...Comcast will raise its internet price on users saying that they need more money to fix its age old infacstructure to handle more speeds.
 

darfel

macrumors member
Nov 2, 2007
76
1
NorCal
I think it's crazy! I have a deal with my ISP already, it's called a BILL. No company should be making deals with an ISP to bolster delivery! Only in America. :mad:
 
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BJMRamage

macrumors 68030
Oct 2, 2007
2,713
1,233
My AppleTV is much SLOWER on my FASTER internet connection with Xfinity than it was on FIOS (with a SLOWER internet connection)

I am thinking Comcast/Xfinity is blocking iTunes/Apple servers in order to keep people buying their TV services and not slowing down everyone.

I guess Netflix will be FASTER with Xfinity/Comcast since NF paid for faster speeds to the people.
 
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grundoon

macrumors member
Feb 2, 2013
92
46
My understanding is CDN and paying ISP's for faster delivery are two different things?

Correct. What’s being reported on is simply “peering” - the direct exchange of traffic between two network parties, the one which hosts the content and the one on which the destination resides.

It makes all kinds of sense to avoid the bottlenecks and unpredictablility of simply handing off traffic to the most convenient public/private exchange and having it pass through untold number of networks and network segments to reach its destination. This is true in general, and all the moreso in the case of having large chunks of data to deliver.

Peering is a common, long-standing and not particularly consumer-visible (thus perhaps poorly understood... witness the comments here) practice. Were it not for peering arrangements and continual fine-tuning for routing efficiency over the past 20 years, the Internet as we know it would barely function.
 
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mikbeth

macrumors newbie
Sep 5, 2012
10
44
paid interconnection deal

I just wanted to point out that a "paid interconnection deal" is the current net neutrality "safe" way for a company to get preferred access. I say "safe" way because it bypasses the argument about preferred access along the pipes, and is not really what most of the Net neutrality arguers are against(at least not when they talk about the current Netflix Comcast debacle) Paid interconnection deals are what make the internet run. If Apple pays Comcast to provide a direct line from their datacenter, that doesn't change what happens to other people using the "internet" bandwidth, Apple is not preferred per say, just closer. Now, to be fair, I've heard that Apple is also trying to get the other kind of preferred treatment. But they are separate issues, in that one doesn't violate current or historical definitions of net neutrality, and is commonly done.
 
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macduke

macrumors G5
Jun 27, 2007
13,133
19,662
If Apple doesn't stand up for net neutrality, then I will no longer stand with Apple. It's that simple. Companies and nations who have policies against net neutrality are one of the biggest threats to freedom today and should be eliminated. I don't care how cool an Apple product is, how fast, how amazingly magical—if net neutrality isn't upheld, I'll build my own Linux Box and damn the consequences to my own personal productivity. And I know it's not just Apple who has these policies. I'm just saying, as an Apple user (a quite fervent one I might add), I will leave and bring nearly everyone I know with me—just as I've brought nearly everyone I know to the Apple camp in the first place. You have to stand up for what you believe in even at personal cost. The problem is where to leave and go to if all these companies are being evil?

You see, in doing this, Apple is preventing competition from start up companies. Could you imagine if these arrangements were the norm even 5 years ago? Apple would have a monopoly on the music industry even more than it does now, and excellent services like Spotify, Rdio and more wouldn't have been able to gain traction in the market because they wouldn't have the resources to pay for priority access. It stifles innovation. It's pretty dangerous to only allow large corporations the ability to innovate. And most likely their innovation will end up being new ways to make us part with cash.

I can't wait until power companies and other utilities start doing this. Want to charge your iPhone? That will be $15/mo extra. Want the refrigerator package? An extra $20/mo. Like A/C? You don't even want to see the price for that!
 
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MikhailT

macrumors 601
Nov 12, 2007
4,582
1,325
will this speed up connecting to iTunes/iCloud via Xfinity?

I have Xfinity 105Mbps...and it is slower than my 45Mbps FIOS I had previously.

the AppleTV hiccups all the time when before once things started, it was all set.

Since the source won't specify the list of ISPs, nobody knows.

If Apple did made some deals with Comcast, then, yes, Comcast customers will experience stable if not faster speed (within the bandwidth they're rated for) from Apple's content network.

Apple is better off leaving this with third parties. Apple doesn't understand networking.

Prove it.

In the past, they were the guys that pushed the network standards quicker than everybody else, in fact, Apple was the first to have a built-in ethernet connection on a laptop (Powerbook) as well as the wireless network (iBook G3).

For me, they have one of the best routers on the market that's stable and simple to use (certainly not the fastest but it's not what I was looking for).


You are likely confusing CDN with web services, they're entirely separate things. Apple's way behind on their web services compared to others but it has nothing to do with how they're building their CDNs.

Apple knows this is the future of the internet. Better to pay up now & get cheap long-term contracts signed instead of waiting on everyone else.

I don't think so, I think Apple just want to have its own control over the content/bandwidth.

This is Apple, it wants to control everything.

I suspect the internet will look more and more like the roads. With toll lanes, toll bridges, fast lanes, speed limits, pooling lanes, bus lanes, official lanes, side lanes, stop lights, stop signs, crossing gates, barricades, more taxes, licenses and registration. Things will slower for most and you will have to pay to be fast tracked.

It already does. That's generally how Internet work, nothing is for free.

Huge disappointment, I expected better of Apple.

What are you talking about? Disappointed in what?

Apple just wants to have its own CDN, what's wrong with that? A lot of big and small companies were paying Akamai, Cloudfront, Microsoft, and Amazon for their CDN services. Apple doesn't want to use their networks, so they're building their own network.
 
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ThisIsNotMe

Suspended
Aug 11, 2008
1,849
1,062
Can't blame them. They want 'fast lane' access. If they didn't do it, others would.

Hopefully all of this will go away when the FTC comes to their senses and regulates ISPs like utilities, which they are.

Why should ISPs be regulated like utilities? Why should utilities be regulated like utilities?

The only reason to regulate a utility is if government uses progressive policy to block free market competition.

----------

If Apple doesn't stand up for net neutrality, then I will no longer stand with Apple. It's that simple. Companies and nations who have policies against net neutrality are one of the biggest threats to freedom today and should be eliminated.

And like most internet warriors, you don't understand what net neutrality is and have simply bought into the fear mongering put for by those companies (Google/Netlfix) who want to use others infrastructure for their financial gain without just compensation.

Bandwidth like any other commodity is a relatively finite resource. If you want to use that resource then it should (and will) go to the highest bidder.

This is America not some ****-hole communist/socialist country.
 

MikhailT

macrumors 601
Nov 12, 2007
4,582
1,325
If Apple doesn't stand up for net neutrality, then I will no longer stand with Apple. It's that simple. Companies and nations who have policies against net neutrality are one of the biggest threats to freedom today and should be eliminated. I don't care how cool an Apple product is, how fast, how amazingly magical—if net neutrality isn't upheld, I'll build my own Linux Box and damn the consequences to my own personal productivity. And I know it's not just Apple who has these policies. I'm just saying, as an Apple user (a quite fervent one I might add), I will leave and bring nearly everyone I know with me—just as I've brought nearly everyone I know to the Apple camp in the first place. You have to stand up for what you believe in even at personal cost. The problem is where to leave and go to if all these companies are being evil?

You see, in doing this, Apple is preventing competition from start up companies. Could you imagine if these arrangements were the norm even 5 years ago? Apple would have a monopoly on the music industry even more than it does now, and excellent services like Spotify, Rdio and more wouldn't have been able to gain traction in the market because they wouldn't have the resources to pay for priority access. It stifles innovation. It's pretty dangerous to only allow large corporations the ability to innovate. And most likely their innovation will end up being new ways to make us part with cash.

I can't wait until power companies and other utilities start doing this. Want to charge your iPhone? That will be $15/mo extra. Want the refrigerator package? An extra $20/mo. Like A/C? You don't even want to see the price for that!

Dude, what does this have to do with network neutrality? You do understand Apple just want to serves its own content, right? Just because somebody else bought up network neutrality in this thread doesn't mean this whole CDN building thing is related to it.

Are you telling me everybody on the planet should be forced to pay CDNs to serve content faster in all countries? That's not network neutrality, that's extortion you're confusing it with.

Please read what network neutrality is, because you do not seem to have a good grasp on it based on your post.
 

coolfactor

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2002
7,043
9,707
Vancouver, BC
will this speed up connecting to iTunes/iCloud via Xfinity?

I have Xfinity 105Mbps...and it is slower than my 45Mbps FIOS I had previously.

the AppleTV hiccups all the time when before once things started, it was all set.

Sounds like you or they have networking issues. It's just not about speed, but about reliable routing and configuration. Just because your Xfinity is theoretically faster doesn't matter it better.

For many years, I was an advocate of ADSL over Cable connections, even though cable was surpassing ADSL in terms of raw speed. ADSL held its own in terms of a stable, clean and reliable connection. Cable networks are "neighbourhood networks", so everyone in a neighbour fights for bandwidth, where as ADSL connections are direct-line connections to the ISP. Maybe something similar is going on for your Xfinity?
 
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