Apple Hit With Tax Lobbying Protest, Italian Investigation Into AppleCare Offerings

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, May 27, 2011.

  1. MacRumors, May 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2011

    macrumors bot

    MacRumors

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    CNET reports that Apple is being targeted for protests by US Uncut, an organization seeking to stop companies from avoiding taxes, with the organization planning a series of protests at Apple's retail stores on June 4th. The organization is protesting Apple's participation in the "Win America Campaign" (WAC), an effort that has seen Apple banding together with other major companies to lobby for one-time tax breaks on profits currently being held overseas.
    US Uncut is also targeting Bank of America, Verizon, FedEx, GE, and BP with its June 4th "National Day of Action", although Apple appears to be the group's primary target for "dance-in" protests and other actions.

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    Meanwhile, setteB.IT reports that an Italian regulatory agency has taken action against Apple for its sale of AppleCare extended warranty programs that overlap with standard warranties required by European law, effectively selling customers warranty protection that they do not need.

    Apple's standard warranties are good for one year, with AppleCare extended warranties pushing that coverage out to a total of two or three years depending on the product. European law requires, however, a standard two-year warranty, overlapping or entirely coinciding with Apple's separate AppleCare offerings. Complicating the issue are differing warranty requirements for manufacturers and sellers, requirements that Apple has apparently argued are being satisfactorily met but with which regulators disagree.

    The actions taken by the Italian consumer agency could result in fines levied against Apple and serve as the basis for civil actions by customers.

    Article Link: Apple Hit With Tax Lobbying Protest, Italian Investigation Into AppleCare Offerings
     
  2. macrumors 6502a

    ratzzo

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    #2
    If Apple unrightfully avoided their taxes, I don't find it too bad that they are put in the same bag as those who didn't. Just pay the amount you owe.

    And I love European laws.
     
  3. macrumors 604

    chrono1081

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  4. macrumors regular

    d0minick

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    Mar 8, 2011
    #4
    In the US we have the 14, 60, or 90 day warranty policies. I really like Europes' 1 year policies :D. Plus a 2 year extended. Once the 3 years are over you get a new lappy. :)

    As for taxes, if I can't do sketchy things to dodge em, neither should Apple.
     
  5. macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #5
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

    I've been pointing out for ages that EU law offers protection to consumers that can make AppleCare unnecessary in some circumstances. Glad to see the Italians may be addressing this. However, EU law doesn't mandate a 2 year warranty, it is a bit more complex than that. People in the EU should not assume that all electronics they buy are automatically covered for 2 years. It is about understanding the subtle difference between the legal coverage and AppleCare and deciding if the extra money is worth it.
     
  6. macrumors 68000

    NightFox

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    #6
    Why combine two entirely unrelated stories in the same article? Am I missing a common thread?
     
  7. macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #7
    You know, I love Apple. I'm a shareholder and I want them to become as rich as possible.

    And yet...yeah. US Uncut is absolutely right. We should all be complaining about such things.

    But I kind of think protesting the companies is stupid. They'll always try to get the best deal they can. They should, that's just smart. It's the government that sets the rules, we should be complaining to them if the rules aren't strong enough.

    This is like standing by the side of the road with a 'slow down' sign instead of trying to actually change the speed limit.
     
  8. macrumors regular

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    Nov 21, 2009
    #8
    There's an important distinction you learn in accounting classes between tax avoidance and tax evasion. A company would be stupid (and be doing a disservice to its shareholders) if it didn't pursue every legal avenue to avoid taxes. Tax evasion on the other hand, is illegally avoiding taxes, using methods that go against GAAP to hide profits or some other form of fraud.

    I suspect Apple is avoiding taxes. In that case, if you want them to pay more in taxes, go after the government, not the company. You can't lobby a company to act irrationally and win.
     
  9. macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #9
    From our point of view - bad news for Ireland if this takes hold; Ireland being one of those pesky countries with very low corporate tax rates which Apple is availing of.
     
  10. macrumors newbie

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    #10
    Maybe the US should offer a more competitive corporate tax rate.
     
  11. macrumors regular

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    #11
    I guess we had the same idea at roughly the same time, since I posted almost the exact same idea just below you :D
     
  12. macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #12
    For what it's worth, I think you said it clearer than I did. :eek:
     
  13. macrumors 68030

    Les Kern

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    #13
    No.
    I pay my taxes, you pay yours. And why, pray tell, do you want to bring the money back in anyway? See, THAT'S the real question.

    And while I'm at it, with almost 70BN in cash, would it KILL you to manufacture SOMETHING in America? All you want to do is duck taxes and pay slaves to make your crap. Typical corporate blood-sucking whores.
     
  14. macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Why do you use so many smiley faces? :):D:):):D:):):D:rolleyes:;)
     
  15. macrumors 68020

    Joined:
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    #15
    Why blame Apple for taking advantage of a HUGE loophole in the Tax law? Even as individuals we can't wait for a deduction or so (a lot of people buy homes to take advantage of tax shelters) so are we surprised that a multibillion company would do that? Look at GE.

    We should blame our government and tax code for giving such loopholes.
     
  16. macrumors 6502a

    ciTiger

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    Portugal (Porto)
    #16
    It's true Apple care here in Europe always confused me since we are supposed to have 2 years standard warranty and not just a Year... What Apple employees claim when asked is that the standard warranty is indeed 2 years but after a year without Apple Care the warranty is only valid for certain types of malfunctions although they don't specify which...
    While Apple is supposed to cover most things I m not really sure what the standard warranty covers but I guess it should be similar right?
     
  17. macrumors newbie

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    #17
    sure, if you want $2000 base-model iMacs.
     
  18. macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #18
    Well, the point is that Apple is asking for more loopholes that doen't exist yet.

    But then they should tell the government to say "no." Make people angry about it and make sure the government knows people don't like it.

    Just telling Apple to not even ask is a waste of time, I think.
     
  19. macrumors 68020

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    #19
    Would it KILL you to pay $1,500 for the iPad 2?
     
  20. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
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    #20
    This.

    Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't companies legally obliged to avoid taxes wherever possible? Surely doing otherwise would be acting against the interests of shareholders, and they could be taken to court.
     
  21. macrumors regular

    FriarNurgle

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    #21
    Why all the outrage? This is standard business practice in the US. The entire tax code needs rewritten, but who do you think will end up writing it? The corporate lobbyists will ensure it still works out for their benefit.
     
  22. macrumors 65816

    RalfTheDog

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    #22
    If a country is sheltering money by sending jobs out of the United States, and they want a one time tax break to bring those jobs back to America, I say, Go for it!
     
  23. macrumors 68000

    chaosbunny

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    #23
    Well, that's the way the overcomplicated tax system is supposed to work. Big corporation pay peanuts while the majority is payed by the middle class and small companies.
     
  24. macrumors member

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    Jan 30, 2007
    #24
    That's the way it looks to me to. Apple hasn't done anything illegal, and what's happening as far as I can tell is that the US is trying to become more competitive in it's corporate taxes. That's why Apple wants to move money back in. That's why we're seeing the datacenters go up in the US (well, that and better US connection speeds). It may actually behoove the US economy on the whole (increased jobs due to more $$ in the US) to allow this break.
     
  25. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    #25
    I live in Denmark, and at least here it's like this.
    They need to cover our products for 2 years, however, if the problem that might occur with our product is due to "user error" (i.e. negligence etc.) they don't have to, so I believe yeah, we got 2 years of warranty standard, but convincing the manufacturers that the error is a manufacturing related issue and not a user created one, that becomes hard after a few months. - Some companies are way harder than others to convince.
     

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