Apple Loses Appeal in Samsung Case: Two Patents Ruled Invalid, $120 Million Verdict Overturned

Discussion in 'iOS Blog Discussion' started by MacRumors, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot

    MacRumors

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    The long-running dispute between Apple and Samsung continues, with an appeals court today handing the Cupertino-based company a defeat by invalidating two Apple patents and ruling a third had not been infringed by Samsung (via Bloomberg). The ruling, which covers Apple patents related to slide-to-unlock, autocorrect, and interactive phone number features, also threw out the original $119.6 million in damages Apple had been awarded in the case.

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    In addition, Apple's guilty verdict from nearly two years ago has been upheld: the company still has to pay $158,400 for violating Samsung's patent describing an "apparatus for recording and reproducing digital image and speech." Regarding the three operating system features Apple attempted to validate, the court ruled that Apple's claim for Samsung's patent infringement was "invalid."
    In a separate court battle over patent infringements, last December Samsung decided to submit an appeal to the Supreme Court in one final effort to avoid paying $548 million to Apple. Just this month, Apple attempted to convince the Supreme Court to deny Samsung's appeal in the five-year-old case, claiming that the South Korean company was simply attempting to prolong the case even further following the announcement of the settlement.

    Article Link: Apple Loses Appeal in Samsung Case: Two Patents Ruled Invalid, $120 Million Verdict Overturned
     
  2. JonneyGee macrumors 6502

    JonneyGee

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    #2
    This decision wouldn't have had much impact on either company at this point anyway, but combine this with the recent FBI/DOJ attack on Apple and I'm very frustrated with the way the courts have treated Apple recently.
     
  3. theelysium macrumors 6502a

    theelysium

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    #3
    Samsung does nothing but rob other companies of their engineering and get away with it....
     
  4. Richardgm macrumors 6502a

    Richardgm

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  5. jayducharme macrumors 68030

    jayducharme

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    This is conclusive proof that there is no real justice. The message this sends to companies is, "Don't bother to enforce patents when your competitors copy your innovations; you'll be overruled in court."
     
  6. macs4nw macrumors 68040

    macs4nw

    #6
    So what are the chances additional, previously recognized patents, will also be ruled invalid in the coming appeals?
     
  7. dannyyankou macrumors 603

    dannyyankou

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    #7
    $158,400 is just a drop in the bucket for Apple.
     
  8. rjohnstone macrumors 68030

    rjohnstone

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    #8
    Everyone loves the courts when they rule in Apple's favor but call them corrupt when they don't.
    So which is it?

    If your patents are ruled invalid in a court of law, there is nothing to enforce.

    But Apple will probably blow 20x that much to try and get it overturned.
     
  9. thisisnotmyname macrumors 6502a

    thisisnotmyname

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    #9
    I have not reviewed the specifics of these cases deeply enough to have a solid opinion on this finding but I've started to feel good any time a patent case is thrown out. Although I recognize the importance of patent law I feel that more often than not in recent past patent litigation has been overwhelming of the patent troll variety. I don't have a good solution (an army of highly trained patent clerks just isn't practical) so for the time being I'll lean towards cheering the invalidation of most patent claims. Although a bigger subject and with some serious potential problems as well, perhaps we really do need some serious tort reform with teeth.
     
  10. kdarling, Feb 26, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016

    kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #10
    Unlike criminal cases, civil cases such as this are not about guilt. They're about liability (finding "for" the plaintiff).

    A warrant is a legal request.

    If you had a child or little sister kidnapped, and the FBI had the kidnapper's phone with evidence that could save her, and the courts gave the FBI a warrant, then you'd rightfully be all for Apple doing their damnedest to unlock it right away.

    Samsung had to do their own engineering to implement the features in these cases. No code copying involved. Ditto for Apple in the many patent cases where they're accused of infringement.

    You are confused about what software patent infringement is almost always about. It's not about copying an idea, because those cannot be patented. It's about coming up with similar methods, which is common as dirt.

    The recent Supreme Court decision limiting some types of software patents should help.
     
  11. tigertazz macrumors regular

    tigertazz

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  12. rjohnstone macrumors 68030

    rjohnstone

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    #12
    Samsung owes nothing (in this particular case) and Apple owes Samsung some couch cushion money.
     
  13. Gasu E. macrumors 68040

    Gasu E.

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    #13

    I have to agree with you. The patent office validates far too many ideas, specifically in software patents, that seem to me obvious. I say this as a software industry insider. I don't blame Apple for trying to patent everything, as that's how corporate behemoths now have to play the game versus each other. But "obviousness' is supposed to be a barrier to patent certification, and too many patent examiners seem unable to distinguish the obvious from the innovative.
     
  14. MikhailT macrumors 601

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    #14
    I'm not surprised, Apple is not going to get what it wants.

    Software patents itself shouldn't be patentable in the first place, all it does is hinder the nature evolution of software designs and provide zero benefits for the society to have it be limited to a single company just because they came up with an abstract idea first.

    Other type of patents should be limited as well by its length. As for copyright protections, it should be reduced to 20 years max, not the silly creator's lifespan + 50 or whatever it is now.
     
  15. Studioman macrumors regular

    Studioman

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    #15
    Unless of of course you are a foreign nation with deep pockets and a history of bribing lawmakers around the world to get their way.
     
  16. iMerik macrumors 6502

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    #16
    So from the running tally of court rulings we used to see all the time a few years ago, how much does each owe the other? I felt like Samsung was still on the hook for a lot more.
     
  17. bladerunner2000 macrumors 65816

    bladerunner2000

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    #17
    Steve Jobs once said Apple is shameless with stealing great ideas.
     
  18. Studioman macrumors regular

    Studioman

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    In that case companies shouldn't invest resources into writing new software. They should just wait for someone else to do it first so they can save their money to invest in marketing.
     
  19. MikhailT macrumors 601

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    #19
    They're not, the billion dollar verdict were cut in half a year ago and that other half is already under appealed with high chances of being reduced further as well.

    Apple will have spent far more on their lawyers that is running tens of millions of dollars year than they're getting back from these patent cases.
     
  20. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #20
    On the contrary, same as when Apple wins by invalidating someone else's patent, or showing that they did not infringe, it's proof of justice in the end.

    The message is, don't use weak patents to try to stifle competition, because those patents are likely to be found invalid upon appeal to more experienced courts.

    More than a dozen judges around the world already invalidated the slide-to-unlock patent. The only judge who had not, was Judge Koh in California.

    The hot links patent was likewise something that should never have been granted, since various applications had such a feature for years beforehand.
     
  21. WBRacing macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Thank you for this and your other posts. They always bring clarity and sanity to these threads.
     
  22. thermodynamic macrumors 65816

    thermodynamic

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    #22
    So soon with people in a response shoehorning in - and please pardon me for putting in a differing viewpoint/possibility - the attack on the FBI/DOJ by Apple trying to usurp law over a court order as if Apple runs the US instead of Apple being a corporate citizen having to comply with a reasoned legal order which was not a whim put out for a thrill.

    Maybe Apple can spend more money on even more lobbyists to get its way or buy more votes come next election. We are a plutocratic oligarchy and not a democratic republic, remember?
     
  23. MikhailT macrumors 601

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    Deleted, need to rewrite it, need coffee first.
     
  24. thermodynamic macrumors 65816

    thermodynamic

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    #24
    ^^This!!!
     
  25. GucciPiggy macrumors regular

    GucciPiggy

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    #25
    Everyone borrows from everyone. Samsung doesn't steal any more than Apple or anyone else does.
     

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