Apple please listen; I want a MacBook but Dell is cheaper & better equipped

Discussion in 'Buying Tips and Advice' started by boxlight, Oct 15, 2006.

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  1. boxlight macrumors member

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    Oct 15, 2006
    #1
    I'm writing this not to be troll, but to publicly voice how disappointed I am with the current pricing of the entry level MacBook.

    I'm a happy owner of a 20" intel iMac and I want to buy an entry level MacBook as a second computer. This is what I see (all prices Canadian):

    Apple:
    13.1" MacBook
    Core Duo 1.8GHz
    512 Meg RAM
    60 Gig HD
    CD burner / DVD reader
    $1250 (Canadian)

    Then I go to Dell:
    14.1" Dell 640 (I'd actually prefer the smaller 13.1")
    Core Duo 1.8GHz
    1 Gig RAM
    120 Gig HD
    CD Burner / DVD burner
    $999 !!! (Canadian)

    Why Apple, WHY the $250 difference for a less capable machine?

    I don't mind paying a slight Mac premium, but to get a MacBook with 1 Gig RAM, 120 Gig HD, and DVD burner is $1869 (Canadian)! Compared to $999 for the Dell. I want the Mac -- but I can't help but feel I'd be getting ripped.

    Please update the line of MacBooks with more realistic prices immediately.

    Sincere thanks for great products, but currently tough pricing!

    boxlight
     
  2. suneohair macrumors 68020

    suneohair

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    #2
    troll

    Mod please close this thread, it will turn nasty very very quick.
     
  3. stevehp macrumors 6502

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    #3

    Trust me. A $250 difference in price is a non-issue when we are talking Dell. You MB will GREATLY outlast any Dell at any price point.
     
  4. boxlight thread starter macrumors member

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    Oct 15, 2006
    #4
    Agreed. But we're talking about a difference of $999 to $1869 for equivalently equipped machine.

    I mean, we're pretty much just talking about ram and hard drive space. Why such a huge difference?

    MODERATORS: I think it's important to *not* close this thread. It's important that someone at Apple hear this. I want to buy a MacBook but cannot because of the severe difference in pricing against competition. Put 1 Gig RAM and a DVD burner in the entry level MacBook and I would have bought one today -- even with the $250 premium. But right now there's just too much difference and it *has* to be hurting your sales.

    boxlight
     
  5. mduser63 macrumors 68040

    mduser63

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    #5
    The only thing I can say is that price isn't everything. It's not just computers where I'll spend more to get something that's better, and often the differences aren't things that you can see on a spec sheet.

    Build quality, customer support, design, and several other factors have to be considered. I know there are people who like them, but even if I was buying a PC, I wouldn't be caught dead buying a Dell. Let's just say my opinion of them is based on experience.
     
  6. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #6
    It's woth it for OSX alone. XP is awful....I mean I have a dual booting machine and I haven't used windows in months.
     
  7. plinkoman macrumors 65816

    plinkoman

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    Location:
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    #7
    apple is not going to change absolutely anything ever based on 1 single thread on macrumors.

    in any case, you are right. It sucks, but it's apple, and we really can't do anything about it. you just have to decide if that difference in price is worth it or not. for me it is, but thats me.
     
  8. bearbo macrumors 68000

    bearbo

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    #8
    build quality? (random shutdown, this and that?)
    customer support? (many many people cannot get their machine properly serviced?)
    design? (that's a question of taste, it might or might not worth $900 (provided OP is right about the equivalent specs price diff))
    and several other factors, like what?
    i agree the OS is more intuitive in most of the cases, but to someone who doesn't care for the OS THAT much, is $900 justifying it?

    i personally would buy mac for OS and design, and the whole package, for a bit more, but i totally understand the concern of OP and other people who are on the fence
     
  9. Scottyk9 macrumors 6502a

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    Canada
    #9
    1. If the Dell and the MB were identical, but the Dell was cheaper, there would be no discussion - everyone would buy a Dell.
    2. If the pros of the MB do not outweigh the cost difference for you, buy the Dell
    3. Apple is a business that has a responsibility to shareholders to show a profit. They will attempt to maximize profit.
    4. They don't care about you and your opinion. What they do care about is if thousands of people share your opinion, and this opinion hurts their bottom line. Given the reports of MB sales, it is unlikely that your point is shared by enough people to make Apple change their approach.
     
  10. boxlight thread starter macrumors member

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    Oct 15, 2006
    #10
    Sigh. I hope you're wrong. That is, I would hope -- in fact, I'd bet money -- that Apple's marketing people monitor these forums for feedback.

    My problem is, the MacBook would be my second Mac and really wouldn't be much more than a web browser.

    boxlight
     
  11. AvSRoCkCO1067 macrumors 65816

    AvSRoCkCO1067

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    Location:
    CO
    #11
    Do remember a few extra additions that make the Macbook an even nicer computer. For example, the iSight. Or Front Row. Or the magnetic latch. Or it's very, very slim body. Or it's user-replaceable hard drive. Or the mag-safe power adapter. Or the keyboard (which, while I disliked at first, is actually a pretty good design).

    And then you have the software; iLife + OS X. And no one is making you purchase the hard drive or ram through Apple, either...

    But as one of the posters said above: it is laughable to think that Apple will change the prices of their computers based on a thread at Macrumors. In fact, they probably don't read this site much...Steve knows he needs loyal Apple fans, but I don't think he likes the rumors much...:p
     
  12. zephead macrumors 68000

    zephead

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    #12
    In my opinion, a computer's hardware is only as good as the software (i.e. the OS) that controls and operates it. While I agree Apple charges way more than they should, they're the only company who can offer the nice things that OS X does (or doesn't do), so either you buy from them, or you use Windows/Linux/[insert other OS]. A little blunt, but that's how they choose to do things.
     
  13. AvSRoCkCO1067 macrumors 65816

    AvSRoCkCO1067

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    #13
    Then you might be fine with a Dell. Or a used iBook - those run Safari just fine...
     
  14. Warbrain macrumors 603

    Warbrain

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    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    #14
    Where the **** do you get the idea that Apple will listen to you? Or anyone here at Macrumors?

    They don't monitor these forums as much as you wish to think. They have their own forums for people to voice their opinions and then they also have stores and other places where people can give their feedback. You're wasting your time thinking that they'll do something just because it's in this thread.

    I say we lock this thread. I don't think you're anything but a troll.
     
  15. boxlight thread starter macrumors member

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    Oct 15, 2006
    #15
    Thanks for making these very good points. And, for the record, I'm not looking for exactly the same price as Dell. I'm willing to pay a premium for the superior Mac hardware. In fact, if the entry level came with 1 Gid Ram and a DVD burner I'd have bought one already (as 60 Gig HD is sufficient for my second Mac).

    But as it is, there's way too much difference in price -- the line of MacBooks should be updated according to the lowering market trends ASAP. In fact, there's a looming MacBook update rumored, so maybe I'll get my wish.

    I disagree. I've worked for hi tech companies for many years, including one of the silicon valley-based software giants -- and I know that one letter from an angry customer or reviewer can heavily influence the decision making process at a high level. I've seen it happen.

    Apple marketing people are likely scanning the web to measure the temperature of the MacBook buying public in order to make quantified recommendations on pricing from a marketing perspective for the next product update.

    boxlight
     
  16. plinkoman macrumors 65816

    plinkoman

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    New York
    #16
    they may very well do that, but they don't care about us, they care about the general public, to which we are not.

    and besides, I don't care who looks at what forums for what reasons, there is no way in hell any company would be like "hey, 1 guy on some forum is pissed at our prices, lets slash them by $800 canadian".

    apple, like all other companies sees mainly dollar signs. if they can get away with over charging like that (which they have been, especially with the people on this forum, despite this thread), then they most certainly will continue to do as such.

    the mac premium in price sucks, but its life. I want a mac, I have to pay it. I think it's worth it, others don't, but in any case, complaining on macrumors has a 0% chance of changing anything.
     
  17. boxlight thread starter macrumors member

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    Oct 15, 2006
    #17
    I figured people might think that, that's why I preceeded my original post with that clarification.

    I'm not a troll. I'm a happy Mac user. But I want to voice this happy Mac user's disatification with Apple's MacBook pricing policy -- and how the current prices have prevented me from buying another Mac.

    I would hope that these forums would be the right place to publicly state such thoughts. If a thread gets killed/locked because someone makes a constructive criticism of Apple then I think that's sad. And it wouldn't be forum I'd want to be a part of.

    boxlight
     
  18. technicolor macrumors 68000

    technicolor

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  19. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #19
    is that all?

    Well, your concerns are certainly legit, and I hope the thread does not get closed.

    However, I'm not about to leap quite so quickly toward the conclusions you do.

    Your comparison is severely lacking, in my view. To make this contest fair, I'd have to ask a few questions.

    1) How large and heavy is the Dell compared to the Macbook? Surprising fact #1: a *less powerful* machine (f.ex. with less RAM, smaller HDD and no DVD burner) may actually cost MORE than the more powerful one... simply because there is a premium to pay for less weight and size - this is a universal rule, not just something invented by Apple. Check some of the light or ultra light PC laptops and see for yourself: significant price premium for a much smaller feature set.

    2) How's the battery life on the Dell compared to the Apple? Surprising fact #2: a *truly* portable laptop is not just smaller and lighter, but it has a longer battery life... and yes, indeedy sir, you pay a premium for that - sure, we've all seen the 8lb monsters from Dell that last an hour and 45 minutes on battery... well, you can keep it, even if it costs only half as much as the Apple.

    3) How does the Dell look compared to the Apple? Surprising fact #3: nice looking things - cars, clothes, women/men (kidding, kidding), etc - cost more than the fuglies... and I'm a prime example of a consumer for whom this is very important - one of the main reasons I bought my iBook is because it was straight out beautiful compared to any PC laptop I've ever seen. And I'd happily pay a premium for that - as I do already for the rest of my purchases (clothes, cars, etc.).

    Well, that's just the beginning... others covered stuff like build quality, OS X vs XP etc.

    Simply put, you've given us too little info to make a fair comparison. It is quite possible that Apple is still overpriced for you - for instance it may be only 10% lighter, but is 30% more expensive... but you know, most often the last few percentage points is what you pay for disproportionatelly more for (example: audio gear).

    But more fundamentally, you've missed the fact that price is only ONE factor that vendors compete on. Yes, there will be customers for whom price will be the number one consideration. For me, it never is. Yes, I do factor it in, but it's just one of many other factors. I judge the Apple product as worth the premium over the Dell, given my criteria. You don't. Cool. That's why there's a market for you, and a market for me. They ain't the same.

    But then again, if price is your #1 concern - and I saw nothing to contradict that in your post - then I suggest that Apple products are simply not for you, not your market. The good news is that once you realize that, your journey has just begun... because guess what: there's even cheaper vendors than Dell - you can really find some way cheaper laptops WITH THE EXACT SAME SPECS AS THE DELL. So, bon voyage!
     
  20. plinkoman macrumors 65816

    plinkoman

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    #20
    have you thought of writing apple a letter? One complaint is rarely enough for a corporation to do anything about anything, but it certainly has a better shot at succeeding than complaining on here about it.
     
  21. Transeau macrumors 6502a

    Transeau

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    Jan 18, 2005
    Location:
    Alta Loma, CA
    #21
    Not that I care what anyone buys... but I figured I'd give you something to think about.


    I a contracted IT Manager. (I manage several Medical Office networks) Each office is 100% Dell - Servers, Network hardware, desktops and notebooks.
    In all I manage 227 Dell OptiPlex Desktops, 32 Dell Latitude Notebooks and 44 Dell PowerEdge servers.

    I am an Authorized Dell business reseller. That is, I can sell Dell "Business Class" computers to any of my clients for less than you can get them on the Dell website. Last year I sold $67,750 of Dell hardware.

    I would never sell or support any other PC on the market.

    That said, I have a Mac Pro, MacBook Pro and my wife has a MacBook and a MacMini.

    Bottom line. You get what you pay for.

    Personally, I don't get paid for fixing my own computers.
    This is why I have Apples at home. So I don't have to fix my own hardware and software.

    BT
     
  22. boxlight thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    #22
    To make this contest fair, I'd have to ask a few questions.

    I'm going to totally sound like I'm pushing the Dell here as I answer your questions, but I'm not. Honestly. Though, that I have to point that fact out kind of makes my point for me, sadly.

    1) How large and heavy is the Dell compared to the Macbook?

    Dell 640; 5.3 pounds

    MacBook; 5.2 pounds

    2) How's the battery life on the Dell compared to the Apple?

    Dell 640; advertises 6 hour battery life.

    MacBook; can't find it on apple.com, assuming same.

    3) How does the Dell look compared to the Apple?

    Apple looks better, natch. Though the slim silver Dell isn't bad looking, for a PC that is.

    Simply put, you've given us too little info to make a fair comparison. It is quite possible that Apple is still overpriced for you - for instance it may be only 10% lighter, but is 30% more expensive... but you know, most often the last few percentage points is what you pay for disproportionatelly more for (example: audio gear).

    Specs wise, they're about the same all around right down to the MHz of the CPU and memory. All things considered I think my gripe boils down to Apple charging through the nose for the ram and dvd burner upgrades.

    Basically, if the entry level MacBook came with 1 Gig of RAM and a DVD burner I'd be happy to pay the $250 premium for the MacBook which I think is better looking and feeling, has the far superior OS -- even with half the harddrive space as the Dell, I'd go with the Mac.

    But then again, if price is your #1 concern - and I saw nothing to contradict that in your post - then I suggest that Apple products are simply not for you, not your market.

    To kick that dead horse one more time, I'm a happy iMac user. I've paid the premium and I'm willing to do so again when I buy my second Mac. But Apple needs to get real and update the prices of their MacBook line in accordance to current market trends soon.

    boxlight
     
  23. Music_Producer macrumors 68000

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    #23
    For a moment let's forget that the MacBook comes with iLife, OS X, etc.. although the Dell would come with Windows XP (ooh!) and you can always buy 'ilife' type software for it (which would probably look so drab that you wouldn't want to use it)

    I bought my powerbook g4 12 in 2003.. sold it 2 months ago. I bought it for $1200.. sold it for $900. That's a $300 depreciation in *3* years. All I had to do was pay $300 more to buy a brand new MacBook.

    So there's your $250 difference :p Try putting that dell on ebay.. and see if you can even get $400 for it in a year's time :D

    The bottomline is.. there's a premium for macs and people are more than willing to pay for it. I feel that the current prices are good enough.. would I like them to be cheaper? Sure! But if that's at the risk of lower quality components (looking at the macbook complaints some users have.. i would rather they price it at $2000 and make it top notch) and inferior customer support.. then sorry.
     
  24. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #24
    Go to Apple's refurb listings and check out the prices on the 2.0 GHz MacBook with SuperDrive.

    That's your best deal and it gets you into a nice MacBook with a full factory warranty.
     
  25. yojitani macrumors 68000

    yojitani

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    #25
    Could you link us to the dell computer in question? The reason I ask is that whenever I've comparably speced out a Dell vs. MB, the numbers aren't quite so different. Granted that now Dell is using the C2D, but otherwise... See, dell has these 'entry level computers' with Celeron whatever chips that generally a) are not especially durable and b) are not comparable with the MB. Once Apple gets its act together a bit and upgrades everything to C2D, I'd say the macbook is best compared with the XPS, in which case I don't see a spectacular difference... You are right, though, apple's entry level machine should come with more ram and a larger HD... and a DVD burner (though even Dell's doesn't come with a DVD burner).

    yt
     
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