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Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
Samsung should be able to promise it's hundred of millions of "SHIPPED" units...we all know those never "SOLD"

;)

*article about something Apple does right*

*here comes the bashing of everything not Apple*

:|
 

oneMadRssn

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,958
13,938
The problem we have right now is too many students doing poorly in grade school and too many people picking dumb majors when they go to university. In what way does this solve either problem?

I'd much rather if we simply:
1 - Raised how much we paid teachers. (This way, the best potential teachers, the people being paid top dollar to go work for private companies, will actually view being a grade school teacher as a worthwhile career. Right now, if you end up with a really good teacher, it's because they're either already content with how much money they made elsewhere and retired, or because they feel so strongly that we need better teachers that they're willing to take the massive pay cut.)
2 - Made it easier to fire teachers that are lousy.
3 - Offered more scholarships for people going into STEM majors. A lot more. School is many times more expensive than the scholarships we're offering right now.

I agree with your ideas, but with a few caveats. I remember reading in one of the Freakonomics book (and of course I'm paraphrasing, without doing it justice at all) that if we ranked all the teachers, and got rid of those in the bottom 10 percentile of performance, and replaced them with someone who is the equivalent of a 50th percentile teacher (average teacher), the ranking of our entire education system would improve dramatically as compared to the rest of the world and put us on an upward trend to be on the top within a generation. The way to do this is, as you pointed out, is to raise pay and facilitate replacement.

However, I also think teachers should be concerned with teaching, and should not be fearful of losing their jobs every year. I am against busting teacher unions. There must be a way to raise pay, make it easier to replace under-performing teachers with "average" teachers.

As for STEM - I don't think this should singled out. I think ALL higher education should be made cheaper, but it should not be done with government subsidy to students. The problem is, right now, tuition is getting higher and higher because (1) universities know students will pay any price because the government and banks will loan them enough to cover any price, and (2) there is huge price discrimination (the rich pay full price, the poor get various tuition assistance funded by the everyone who pays full price). If the government stops backing and guarantees loans, students will be forced to shop around and compare colleges based on price, not based on the amount softball fields and or mahogany in the hallways. Look at Law Schools - seeing dramatically declining applications and enrollment, many Law Schools have either frozen or lowered their tuition (some by quite a lot). Also, I suggest the government instead injects money into State Schools and makes them lower the prices by example. Essentially - a government option for education, to force the market the compete with those lower prices.
 

Ryth

macrumors 68000
Apr 21, 2011
1,591
157
Lol help people? People/companies only do so much for TAX BREAKS, nothing else. The "good" publicity is just a bonus for their reputation...

You're such a lost cause you might as well just check out and get off the planet if you believe that.

*article about something Apple does right*

*here comes the bashing of everything not Apple*

:|

Reality isn't bashing.
 

typeadam

macrumors regular
May 16, 2010
249
10
10016
It almost seems like these programs would work best on a trust basis. Meaning the kids and teachers that have this technology to utilize for ed. only use it for ed. And on top of that it is properly maintained and not turned into yet another item for some company to spam or drain further money out of the schools in some unscrupulous way.
It sounds great but it also sounds too much like a Star Trek utopia concept which until society accepts responsibility and responsible use I don't know how far this can go or how well it will do.
But then again maybe I'm just being pessimistic about the whole idea.
 

longofest

Editor emeritus
Jul 10, 2003
2,924
1,682
Falls Church, VA

Orlandoech

macrumors 68040
Jun 2, 2011
3,341
887
You're such a lost cause you might as well just check out and get off the planet if you believe that.



Reality isn't bashing.

Lol... why the name calling? Did I offend you? Do you need a hug? Can I make a donation in your name to make you feel better?

You're such a lost cog in modern society and believe Apple does this for the people? Lol please. Businesses are about $$$$, not giving away stuff. Since Apple loves giving away stuff, maybe they will give you a free iPhone?

DOUBT IT!
 
Last edited:

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
You're such a lost cause you might as well just check out and get off the planet if you believe that.



Reality isn't bashing.

When you bring in an unrelated fact to make somebody look bad, it is bashing. You can use facts to bash people.
 

FrizzleFryBen

macrumors 6502
Dec 14, 2009
452
179
Charlotte, NC
Any opportunity to bash Microsoft, right?

Honestly no. I love many MS products and use them. Hell, I was going to buy my mom a MacBook Air, but opted for a touch screen Windows 8 ultra book since it would be easier for her to use and she loves it. She even makes fun of my MBA now.

Seriously tho, all giving like this is great, no matter the scale. It just seemed slightly disingenuous to me when seeing the numbers the other guys were giving. That's all.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
Honestly no. I love many MS products and use them. Hell, I was going to buy my mom a MacBook Air, but opted for a touch screen Windows 8 ultra book since it would be easier for her to use and she loves it. She even makes fun of my MBA now.

Seriously tho, all giving like this is great, no matter the scale. It just seemed slightly disingenuous to me when seeing the numbers the other guys were giving. That's all.

Oh, okay.

I guess I'm just too used to everyone on here thinking that liking Apple means hating everyone else. Also, sometimes money is less important than something that can be used. If I give a company that needs computers 500m dollars (cause I'm rich), I don't know how much of it is going to be used for the computers. If I give them 500m dollars worth of computers (because I'm rich), I know that the computers are going to be used.
 

TXCherokee

macrumors 6502
Aug 24, 2012
338
180
The problem we have right now is too many students doing poorly in grade school and too many people picking dumb majors when they go to university. In what way does this solve either problem?

I'd much rather if we simply:
1 - Raised how much we paid teachers. (This way, the best potential teachers, the people being paid top dollar to go work for private companies, will actually view being a grade school teacher as a worthwhile career. Right now, if you end up with a really good teacher, it's because they're either already content with how much money they made elsewhere and retired, or because they feel so strongly that we need better teachers that they're willing to take the massive pay cut.)
2 - Made it easier to fire teachers that are lousy.
3 - Offered more scholarships for people going into STEM majors. A lot more. School is many times more expensive than the scholarships we're offering right now.

Edit: Good lord, why are you people supporting this? It wastes money and seems probable that it'll reduce the quality of education we give in public schools, not improve it.

As the spouse of a teacher for 22 years, I'll add:

4 - Require parents to become more involved. Not necessarily at the school itself, but in their child's education. No matter how much money is spent, how much (or little) teachers are paid, or how many hours the kids spend in school, or how many standardized tests they take, the most consistent and determining factor is the parents.
 

mccldwll

macrumors 65816
Jan 26, 2006
1,345
12
Lol help people? People/companies only do so much for TAX BREAKS, nothing else. The "good" publicity is just a bonus for their reputation...

No, not doing it for the tax breaks. However, all corporations act in the best interests of the corporation. They have to. To do otherwise would be a fiduciary breach to shareholders. All participants can easily justify their contributions as being in their long term business interests. PR just one aspect. This is not a negative comment about the participants, just something that should always be kept in mind. A corporate charitable contribution is almost an oxymoron since a self-serving element essentially is required.
 

TXCherokee

macrumors 6502
Aug 24, 2012
338
180
I know when I was in high school and college, my teachers sucked at utilizing technology for teaching. Does anyone have insight into how teachers are doing these days with technology? Is it helping them teach in more advanced and impacting ways or not?

It helps quite a bit when the teachers have enough of the tech to reach all their students. My wife (22-year teacher) engages her students with tech and there is significant interest, unfortunately in most schools without strong PTAs or funding there is not enough tech to engage all the students at any one time. For example, my wife's school (Title I) has only 20 iPads that are shared amongst 250+ students.

That said, because of high-speed internet she is able to make great use of a lot of free online material, of which there is a significant amount.
 

phillipduran

macrumors 65816
Apr 30, 2008
1,055
607
Getting tired of reading this paranoia crap about NSA lately....

It's not paranoia when it is something that is happening.

Take a trip through history and look at how governments have treated their people. It is fully within the intent and design of this country for its citizens to scrutinize and distrust our government. We should always reluctantly give them power and do so in a very restrictive manner. The NSA represents an unchecked, very powerful and secretive section of our government. We should be concerned about what they consider OK to do to US citizens.
 

aristotle

macrumors 68000
Mar 13, 2007
1,768
5
Canada
So other companies are pledging free services or 100 million dollars in money or products but Microsoft is offering 12 million copies of Office and "discounts" on windows?
:rolleyes:
 

TXCherokee

macrumors 6502
Aug 24, 2012
338
180
No. All it does is provide students with more distractions.

That's not to say they're entirely worthless. Students use laptops for research, writing papers, and making slide shows. But they're guaranteed to also use it for gaming, social networking, etc, while in class. And no matter how hard you try to block them, it just takes one of them knowing how to bypass your settings and selling the secret to the rest of them.

WRONG! There is a lot more to tech than laptops and iPads.

My wife (a teacher of 22 years) makes significant use of free online teaching tools thanks to her campus having a high speed internet connection.

My son's school, in a better funded district than my wife teaches, uses a SmartBoard daily to engage in learning and tech with students from other classrooms, campuses, and online learning sites.

While you may be right to a certain extent that some 'hacking' may occur, it is irresponsible to generalize the entire effort and worthless and meaningless.
 

Ryth

macrumors 68000
Apr 21, 2011
1,591
157
Lol... why the name calling? Did I offend you? Do you need a hug? Can I make a donation in your name to make you feel better?

You're such a lost cog in modern society and believe Apple does this for the people? Lol please. Businesses are about $$$$, not giving away stuff. Since Apple loves giving away stuff, maybe they will give you a free iPhone?

DOUBT IT!

When you post a stupid comment like you did about people/companies only doing good for a tax break, you deserved being called out. Find some people in your life that actually do good without expecting something in return and maybe you'll change that attitude of yours.

Also, you might want to look up Apple and the people that run it and their donations/time contributed to causes around the world and these people don't want anything in return. Bill Gates and others do the same.

Not everybody is as morbid as you are about society.

When you bring in an unrelated fact to make somebody look bad, it is bashing. You can use facts to bash people.

It's a related fact. Google/Samsung have given tablets to schools.

Next.
 

FrizzleFryBen

macrumors 6502
Dec 14, 2009
452
179
Charlotte, NC
Oh, okay.

I guess I'm just too used to everyone on here thinking that liking Apple means hating everyone else. Also, sometimes money is less important than something that can be used. If I give a company that needs computers 500m dollars (cause I'm rich), I don't know how much of it is going to be used for the computers. If I give them 500m dollars worth of computers (because I'm rich), I know that the computers are going to be used.

There is a lot of hate.

And you're correct. When giving money, you don't have as much control over how it is used. On the other hand, sometimes we have to trust people to do what's best for their goals and initiatives (so long as they follow the spirit of the donations). It's just tough giving money AND tech, it's generally out of your control once it leaves your hands. It's kind of like when a buddy borrows $1000 to pay rent from you and then you see him at the bar the next day. How mad can you be that he's enjoying a few beers. (that was a horrible analogy)
 

TXCherokee

macrumors 6502
Aug 24, 2012
338
180
However, I also think teachers should be concerned with teaching, and should not be fearful of losing their jobs every year. I am against busting teacher unions. There must be a way to raise pay, make it easier to replace under-performing teachers with "average" teachers.

Good teachers won't have to be fearful. My wife has been teaching 22 years and will tell you that the only way to get rid of bad teachers is to bust the unions. There is a saying in the education field when a bad teacher is relocated instead of fired. It's called passing the trash and unfortunately it happens every year.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
There is a lot of hate.

And you're correct. When giving money, you don't have as much control over how it is used. On the other hand, sometimes we have to trust people to do what's best for their goals and initiatives (so long as they follow the spirit of the donations). It's just tough giving money AND tech, it's generally out of your control once it leaves your hands. It's kind of like when a buddy borrows $1000 to pay rent from you and then you see him at the bar the next day. How mad can you be that he's enjoying a few beers. (that was a horrible analogy)

Maybe I just don't trust people as much as you do.

As for the beer analogy, I'd remember that the next time he asked for money to "pay rent".

----------

Good teachers won't have to be fearful. My wife has been teaching 22 years and will tell you that the only way to get rid of bad teachers is to bust the unions. There is a saying in the education field when a bad teacher is relocated instead of fired. It's called passing the trash and unfortunately it happens every year.

And without unions, I'd imagine the south would be taught even less about evolution... >_>;
 

impulse462

macrumors 68020
Jun 3, 2009
2,074
2,860
I know when I was in high school and college, my teachers sucked at utilizing technology for teaching. Does anyone have insight into how teachers are doing these days with technology? Is it helping them teach in more advanced and impacting ways or not?

My professors in college still mostly suck at using technology.
 
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