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Apple prices
- Thread starter MrMacMan
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Apple can only fight itself in a price war
If Apple lowers the price on the low end it would hurt their high end products. If it sells 2 or 3 year technology in the low end they will look like idiots. If they lower just the high end, it will destroy their consumer market. And if they reduce the price across the board in a big way, it will hurt their ability to be so innovative. I would like to see a hundred dollar price drop every year on their systems until they are at an acceptable level. But price won't stop me from getting a Mac. I will just have to learn to be more patient when I save my money.
If Apple lowers the price on the low end it would hurt their high end products. If it sells 2 or 3 year technology in the low end they will look like idiots. If they lower just the high end, it will destroy their consumer market. And if they reduce the price across the board in a big way, it will hurt their ability to be so innovative. I would like to see a hundred dollar price drop every year on their systems until they are at an acceptable level. But price won't stop me from getting a Mac. I will just have to learn to be more patient when I save my money.
Just for the imac's or the low end, come on... The only reason they are losing the schools are pricing! Oh ww apple is offering 50 off!! Wow dell is offering 100 dollars off plus a normal 300's lower!!! Oh well I'll pick the mca cause.... CAuse....I don't know why I would!!! 
Can anybody tell me why?
Prices vs. People
Prices vs. Profits
Prices vs. Design
Come on people one has to be cut back!!!
Can anybody tell me why?
Prices vs. People
Prices vs. Profits
Prices vs. Design
Come on people one has to be cut back!!!
if apple loses their education market, apple will really be in trouble, maybe a school imac or something, something cheaper, not so bad it sucks but not amazing or price will mess it up. I think the ibook will replace the imacs for education but still, make a school model imac apple, or ms will surely eat you alive
ah I mean cheap.... not pricey.... apple took what 50 off for schools? They should be GIVing these thing away!!!
i agree
selling ibooks and imacs cheap to school builds brand loyalty early on and that is good in the long term
the long term is definitely not mentioned in silicon valley since no one can expect to last forever in this business
something has do be done with the aggressiveness of dell which i am seeing in my computer lab which used to be half macs and half pcs and now are all dell machines
btw - my wife lived in great neck...is it still full of famous people and celebs?
also congrats on 300 posts!
selling ibooks and imacs cheap to school builds brand loyalty early on and that is good in the long term
the long term is definitely not mentioned in silicon valley since no one can expect to last forever in this business
something has do be done with the aggressiveness of dell which i am seeing in my computer lab which used to be half macs and half pcs and now are all dell machines
btw - my wife lived in great neck...is it still full of famous people and celebs?
also congrats on 300 posts!
I live in Dell land. Unfortunatly. Thier every where over here. Help me!
I fight of those pc demons by flashing my apple sticker around town...I dont know how long I can hold them off... maybe the new Imacs will do it.
I fight of those pc demons by flashing my apple sticker around town...I dont know how long I can hold them off... maybe the new Imacs will do it.
Didn't Apple recently sign the largest edu order in HISTORY! (State of Maine, 36,000 iBooks). Apple is the fastest growing company in the edu sector.
**** Dell!
I'll go to the ole' BMW well one more time...
Is a BMW more expensive than a Nissan? yep... Now, what's the point?
Is a BMW more expensive than a Nissan? yep... Now, what's the point?
Prices no too high!
I completely agree with Eyelikeart. Although he does seem like he can be full of crap at times, I think on this subject he has a good point... they might be expensive, but for anybody who knows anything about computers, Macs are higher quality, and they are more user-friendly. But marketing does have a lot to do with the success of a product. Otherwise, how could PCs have become so popular?
I completely agree with Eyelikeart. Although he does seem like he can be full of crap at times, I think on this subject he has a good point... they might be expensive, but for anybody who knows anything about computers, Macs are higher quality, and they are more user-friendly. But marketing does have a lot to do with the success of a product. Otherwise, how could PCs have become so popular?
Marketing has exactly ZERO to do with it.
M$ is more populous because it comes pre-installed on all other machines. This was arrived at by pure Corporate agression on MS's part. Nonmacs are popular because they have drawn on cheap, generic components forever and there is no standard for quality. If Marketing had ANYTHING to do with it PC manufacturors like People PC and Gateway would be dominant. They're either Dead or circling the drain.
M$ is more populous because it comes pre-installed on all other machines. This was arrived at by pure Corporate agression on MS's part. Nonmacs are popular because they have drawn on cheap, generic components forever and there is no standard for quality. If Marketing had ANYTHING to do with it PC manufacturors like People PC and Gateway would be dominant. They're either Dead or circling the drain.
It is not Apple's prices I have a problem with, it is the specs of the machines. I understand it can not have multi-gigahertz chips like Intel, but the other bits should be good. Apple still cripples its machines with only little amounts of RAM, while 512MB of RAM can be got for around $100. The old iMac came with a ATI 128 Graphics chip, I can't find any PC makers still using that chip at the iMacs price point. The new iMac should have the option of Geforce 3 and the Geforce 3 should come in all Pro models as standard. All PCs at the PowerMacs price have Geforce 3s or ATI 8500. The Geforce 4 will be out in a month (go to http://www.cex.co.uk for details) and I how apple includes the MX version in all new iMacs and the Ti version in all new PowerMacs.
Look unless you have a rich(fill in black) school district theyt are all going Pc. That is the ned of apple's educational market. k? Look schools aint looking for exta's, they are looking for computer with software and at a good price. Not a measly 50 dollars off. Man they should be GIVING the schools these computers away for free. not wow apple is getting a 400 dollars profit off a school!!
That is my big fat
That is my big fat
The macs above £1000 are not too pricey at all. For what you get they are about the right price.
But the ones below £1000, like the CRT imac is just way too expensive. you could buy a great PC system for the price of one of those.
But this is not the biggest "price" problem apple has.
Apple needs to sell a product of less quality for about £400-500, they are missing out on this market, and believe me this is a big market.
When apple make desicions to miss a market like that it means people like me just cant afford a mac. And that means i am forced into going PC.
Apple has been closed minded when it comes to this, they havent realised that there are people out there who need a mac and cant afford a fancy/expensive one. that or they just dont care.
But the ones below £1000, like the CRT imac is just way too expensive. you could buy a great PC system for the price of one of those.
But this is not the biggest "price" problem apple has.
Apple needs to sell a product of less quality for about £400-500, they are missing out on this market, and believe me this is a big market.
When apple make desicions to miss a market like that it means people like me just cant afford a mac. And that means i am forced into going PC.
Apple has been closed minded when it comes to this, they havent realised that there are people out there who need a mac and cant afford a fancy/expensive one. that or they just dont care.
Apple prices *are* too high - book version
Apple is in a very interesting business position.
To survive long-term, Apple will need to increase its marketshare. While the company is very driven and innovative right now, you can't expect that Apple will be able to sustain that year-in and year-out for eternity.
Two things are keeping Apple afloat these days.
1) Loyalty (maintaining current customers)
2) Innovation (attracting enough new customer base to keep up in an expanding market)
So long as Apple can maintain those factors, they will maintain their current share. Every time Apple slips on either of these, they will lose share.
The only factors that will increase Apple's share in a PC dominant world are the following, and in order of importance.
1) Price
2) Compatibility
3) Innovation
While Apple is doing a very good job with Innovation and making small steps in the area of Compatibility, they are *way* behind in pricing their machines competitively.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing in a recession. It's more important to survive right now (maintain customers) than it is to increase share. Dell was very fortunate to be the leading PC manufacturer when the recession starting taking hold. The result is that they are strong enough financially to squash those who compete directly with them.
I think that Apple is currently trying to get its ducks in a row. And it seems to me that there are still a few ducks to get lined up.
1) The Hardware - Apple needs to get the right product balance in place so that sales balance correctly. Right now, the professional line is too weak to make a serious play for new customers. Inparticular, Apple risks losing (higher-profit) professional sales to the new iMac. They have limited this by limiting the screen size of the iMac to 15". However, they have also cut into potential "middle market" sales by doing this. Apple needs to introduce serious professional hardware and then introduce a 17" iMac to fill the middle slot.
2) The Software - Although they're making great strides here, Apple still has a way to go. OS X is getting better all the time, but it's still lacking in some areas... especially in the area of Windows network compatibility which is key to getting Macs to be considered in any kind of role where a PC network is present. As well, a few more killer apps (Photoshop, iPhoto 2, etc.) need to be in place. Compatibility with MS networks, logins, file formats and applications.
3) New/Better consumer products. The iPod is a great device. At $100 less and twice the capacity, it becomes a "killer" device that *will* drive iMac sales. The role of the iPod will likely expand, as well, to become a "mobile home directory" as some users are currently doing. Expect this to become an Apple-sanctioned use for the iPod as it will help to sell multiple computers (desktop + laptop) to customers.
4) The end of the recession. It is reasonable to assume that Apple will never be 1-to-1 price competitive with Intel-based machines so long as Apple uses proprietary hardware (much less proprietary than it used to be - we can thank Gil Amelio and John Rubenstein for that). The price advantages due to volume will prevent this. In a tight market, it's going to be really tough to increase market share and attempting to do so in a significant way involves risking profits. That is something that's probably not wise at this point.
If these 4 things can line up within the next two years, Apple will be in a great position to get more aggressive with their pricing and increase US marketshare to something closer to 8% over 4 years (6 years from now).
However, compatibility is the "glass ceiling" that will stop Apple from acquiring significant marketshare. Significant gains will only be made by attracting corporate buyers. Apple should be pushing hardware-independent technologies very hard right now. They should have developers working on WINE, Samba, Mac OS X for intel, Java and anything else that holds the promise of making it easier for Macs to exist in a predominantly Wintel world.
Provided that Apple can execute on this, they then face a new challenge. At 8% marketshare and growing, Apple will be considered a threat to Microsoft. And I don't believe that MS would be very happy about letting that happen.
Apple is in a very interesting business position.
To survive long-term, Apple will need to increase its marketshare. While the company is very driven and innovative right now, you can't expect that Apple will be able to sustain that year-in and year-out for eternity.
Two things are keeping Apple afloat these days.
1) Loyalty (maintaining current customers)
2) Innovation (attracting enough new customer base to keep up in an expanding market)
So long as Apple can maintain those factors, they will maintain their current share. Every time Apple slips on either of these, they will lose share.
The only factors that will increase Apple's share in a PC dominant world are the following, and in order of importance.
1) Price
2) Compatibility
3) Innovation
While Apple is doing a very good job with Innovation and making small steps in the area of Compatibility, they are *way* behind in pricing their machines competitively.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing in a recession. It's more important to survive right now (maintain customers) than it is to increase share. Dell was very fortunate to be the leading PC manufacturer when the recession starting taking hold. The result is that they are strong enough financially to squash those who compete directly with them.
I think that Apple is currently trying to get its ducks in a row. And it seems to me that there are still a few ducks to get lined up.
1) The Hardware - Apple needs to get the right product balance in place so that sales balance correctly. Right now, the professional line is too weak to make a serious play for new customers. Inparticular, Apple risks losing (higher-profit) professional sales to the new iMac. They have limited this by limiting the screen size of the iMac to 15". However, they have also cut into potential "middle market" sales by doing this. Apple needs to introduce serious professional hardware and then introduce a 17" iMac to fill the middle slot.
2) The Software - Although they're making great strides here, Apple still has a way to go. OS X is getting better all the time, but it's still lacking in some areas... especially in the area of Windows network compatibility which is key to getting Macs to be considered in any kind of role where a PC network is present. As well, a few more killer apps (Photoshop, iPhoto 2, etc.) need to be in place. Compatibility with MS networks, logins, file formats and applications.
3) New/Better consumer products. The iPod is a great device. At $100 less and twice the capacity, it becomes a "killer" device that *will* drive iMac sales. The role of the iPod will likely expand, as well, to become a "mobile home directory" as some users are currently doing. Expect this to become an Apple-sanctioned use for the iPod as it will help to sell multiple computers (desktop + laptop) to customers.
4) The end of the recession. It is reasonable to assume that Apple will never be 1-to-1 price competitive with Intel-based machines so long as Apple uses proprietary hardware (much less proprietary than it used to be - we can thank Gil Amelio and John Rubenstein for that). The price advantages due to volume will prevent this. In a tight market, it's going to be really tough to increase market share and attempting to do so in a significant way involves risking profits. That is something that's probably not wise at this point.
If these 4 things can line up within the next two years, Apple will be in a great position to get more aggressive with their pricing and increase US marketshare to something closer to 8% over 4 years (6 years from now).
However, compatibility is the "glass ceiling" that will stop Apple from acquiring significant marketshare. Significant gains will only be made by attracting corporate buyers. Apple should be pushing hardware-independent technologies very hard right now. They should have developers working on WINE, Samba, Mac OS X for intel, Java and anything else that holds the promise of making it easier for Macs to exist in a predominantly Wintel world.
Provided that Apple can execute on this, they then face a new challenge. At 8% marketshare and growing, Apple will be considered a threat to Microsoft. And I don't believe that MS would be very happy about letting that happen.
Catch 22
macs would be cheaper if Apple had more market share.
Apple would have more market share if macs were cheaper.
I like my macs and I think they are a good value in the long run, but I do wish I could get them cheaper.
macs would be cheaper if Apple had more market share.
Apple would have more market share if macs were cheaper.
I like my macs and I think they are a good value in the long run, but I do wish I could get them cheaper.
Okay then Mr Smartypants, what would you do if you were The Steve for a day?
Well, I would make a push to make the Mac more compatible with windows software by integrating a windows environment into OSX 10.2, like classic.
Whoa! That's a whole can of worms youre opening there buddy.
Yes, but this whole computer business is pretty messy right now. Think about the effect though...consumers are wooed to Apple with nice looking machines like the iMac loaded with great free apps that allow them to do what they really want.
What's that?
Email, send photos, make videos and DVDs, mix and burn MP3 cd's. They can do all that, but now with OSX windows mode they can run those old or obscure windows apps that they had from their old computer, and if the emulator is good enough they can even get a decent gaming experience out of it. There would be fewer reasons to buy the crappy Dell box when you could get somethignn better, nicer, that will last longer and comes with a bunch of truly usefull and useable apps on it.
Sounds nice.
It would be. And now Apple would be gaining market share and selling more machines, more OS's, more iPods, more everything and the economy of scale would kick in and give Apple a lot more breathing room to keep on innovating and they could then emerge as a serious threat to the wintel OS and all it's hardware.
Well, I would make a push to make the Mac more compatible with windows software by integrating a windows environment into OSX 10.2, like classic.
Whoa! That's a whole can of worms youre opening there buddy.
Yes, but this whole computer business is pretty messy right now. Think about the effect though...consumers are wooed to Apple with nice looking machines like the iMac loaded with great free apps that allow them to do what they really want.
What's that?
Email, send photos, make videos and DVDs, mix and burn MP3 cd's. They can do all that, but now with OSX windows mode they can run those old or obscure windows apps that they had from their old computer, and if the emulator is good enough they can even get a decent gaming experience out of it. There would be fewer reasons to buy the crappy Dell box when you could get somethignn better, nicer, that will last longer and comes with a bunch of truly usefull and useable apps on it.
Sounds nice.
It would be. And now Apple would be gaining market share and selling more machines, more OS's, more iPods, more everything and the economy of scale would kick in and give Apple a lot more breathing room to keep on innovating and they could then emerge as a serious threat to the wintel OS and all it's hardware.
You should be happy with the prices - really happy, i mean!
Here in Germany i have to pay around 1600$ for the cheapest iMac - and everybody here builds his own computer for about 500$ (without the display). That's hard to compete with!
JustTryIt
Here in Germany i have to pay around 1600$ for the cheapest iMac - and everybody here builds his own computer for about 500$ (without the display). That's hard to compete with!
JustTryIt
I worked for a University
I worked for a University for a while and the lab that I worked in had lots of Mac's. The reason why My deparment baught so many was that they were cheep to maintain. We aslo had a crop of dells too but they constantly needed fixing. There was always at least one with a "broken" sighn on it at all times. And they were mostly less than a year old! If it wasnt the monitor that went out it was the Floppy that as busted. There were alot of students that lost a lot of data using the Dells. The Mac's never needed to be fixed. Once we got Apple talk working with the network, Virtutal office, remote HD's, and linux print server, every thing was fine. Thats why schools go and should stay with Apple.
I worked for a University for a while and the lab that I worked in had lots of Mac's. The reason why My deparment baught so many was that they were cheep to maintain. We aslo had a crop of dells too but they constantly needed fixing. There was always at least one with a "broken" sighn on it at all times. And they were mostly less than a year old! If it wasnt the monitor that went out it was the Floppy that as busted. There were alot of students that lost a lot of data using the Dells. The Mac's never needed to be fixed. Once we got Apple talk working with the network, Virtutal office, remote HD's, and linux print server, every thing was fine. Thats why schools go and should stay with Apple.
RE: eyelikeart
I still want one !!!
Originally posted by eyelikeart
at least he didn't bring up the PDA issue....
I still want one !!!
re: university
more reliable computers might bring down college tuition, which at the once free public universities, even though they don't call it tuition, is still burning a hole in people's wallets
college IT departments are very expensive to maintain and getting worse with each coming year and the cost is passed onto the poor students
part of the hidden cost of university is 4 to 5 years of lost wages and promotions, which if added to the high cost of education already, may never truly be recouped by the college student in his of her working lifetime
macs save the college, the state, and the students a lot of money each year
...and of course, it builds apple brand loyalty
more reliable computers might bring down college tuition, which at the once free public universities, even though they don't call it tuition, is still burning a hole in people's wallets
college IT departments are very expensive to maintain and getting worse with each coming year and the cost is passed onto the poor students
part of the hidden cost of university is 4 to 5 years of lost wages and promotions, which if added to the high cost of education already, may never truly be recouped by the college student in his of her working lifetime
macs save the college, the state, and the students a lot of money each year
...and of course, it builds apple brand loyalty
university spending
Working for a University (when I worked for one) opened my eyes to the amount of waste that goes on. It takes 10 peoples signatures to approve anything and that means 10 people?s yearly ever-growing salaries. Once I need $20.00 petty cash to use for photocopying articles with the microfilm machines. (They only take nickels) I was doing work for a Professor so they said they would pay for any of my expenses. It took them 3 weeks to approve the petty cash hand out! After all the signatures had been collected and the work had been lone since done... I got my $20.00 with the stipulation that I give recipes. I got so mad... how the hell was I going to get a receipt from a microfilm-viewing machine that only took nickels!! And to make things worse... I had to fill out a form to explain why I didn?t use $3.00 of the money they gave me!!
Here is another story (more Mac related).
My supervisor was in need of a portable computer badly for her job. She asked me to help her. So of course I told her to get an iBook. She was worried that it was too expensive and it would not be approved. When she got it one of the powers that be asked her how on earth she got such a good deal. Apparently the PC laptops that the department had been ordering before cost $5000.00. Any one knows some Company that makes something like that? I think some one was taking a little of the top. My supervisor was "recognized" at a meeting for her IT wizardry.
Pathetic that my university didn?t know about the iBook...And that someone was allowed to spend $5,000.00 0f my tuition money on a laptop so some professor could check their email and record their grades in excel at home.
Working for a University (when I worked for one) opened my eyes to the amount of waste that goes on. It takes 10 peoples signatures to approve anything and that means 10 people?s yearly ever-growing salaries. Once I need $20.00 petty cash to use for photocopying articles with the microfilm machines. (They only take nickels) I was doing work for a Professor so they said they would pay for any of my expenses. It took them 3 weeks to approve the petty cash hand out! After all the signatures had been collected and the work had been lone since done... I got my $20.00 with the stipulation that I give recipes. I got so mad... how the hell was I going to get a receipt from a microfilm-viewing machine that only took nickels!! And to make things worse... I had to fill out a form to explain why I didn?t use $3.00 of the money they gave me!!
Here is another story (more Mac related).
My supervisor was in need of a portable computer badly for her job. She asked me to help her. So of course I told her to get an iBook. She was worried that it was too expensive and it would not be approved. When she got it one of the powers that be asked her how on earth she got such a good deal. Apparently the PC laptops that the department had been ordering before cost $5000.00. Any one knows some Company that makes something like that? I think some one was taking a little of the top. My supervisor was "recognized" at a meeting for her IT wizardry.
Pathetic that my university didn?t know about the iBook...And that someone was allowed to spend $5,000.00 0f my tuition money on a laptop so some professor could check their email and record their grades in excel at home.