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Apple Seeds Mac OS X 10.5.2 and Java SE 6 Preview 8 for Leopard
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I'm not having any problems with Mail, Safari or any other Apple made software for that matter... and im using an old Powerbook G4 1.6GHz. The only thing I've noticed is the jerky animations with the dock and exposé/Spaces. How do you ppl keep breaking your Leopard?
You do know that Java is supposed to be platform independent right? Besides this is only a Developer Preview, Im sure the 32bit UB will be out soon
The point I was addressing is the viability of pre-existing non-64 bit Apple hardware.
Obviously any future systems I buy will be 64 bit only.
For now, I've already got 64 bit Linux hardware. I'm currently on 32 bit hardware awaiting the next Mac Pro lineup.
I don't see any advantage of Java on OS X from the Server perspective.
I don't plan on dealing with any Client app work for Java in OS X--this is where Cocoa should be the focus and where I'll put my efforts on the matter.
Apple should make an actual strategy on what they will focus on with regards to Java against other language tools and technologies.
To make a simple and clear declaration that Apple will focus solely on Java for the AppServer or just another option would clear up a lot of confusion.
Apple should not focus on Java for the client. Let Sun focus on that since it's their platform for client/server development.
I was quite disappointed for several years where we saw an attempt to appease all camps from Java to Carbon to Cocoa.
Cocoa should have always been first from day one.
Carbon should have been the transition strategy as it was stated back in 1997 and not this abysmal 10 year delay to Cocoa full-steam ahead.
How the hell Java ever became on equal footing with ObjC was an attempt to make Apple the first to "embrace" Java integrated into their OS. Big deal. That should have been Sun's duty with Solaris.
If I were chief of the Enterprise Group that was once NeXT and then for a while AES at Apple it would be clear:
WebObjects 6 (Pure Cocoa/ObjC 2.0/Python/Ruby/AppleScript)
Java 6 (Legacy for WebObjects 5.4.x, but included in OS X Client/Server at a platform agnostic point of view. Make it current with the OpenJDK and move forward with it in-line with the rest of the Industry)
If Apple isn't going to make WOF a major player in the Java World they should reign it back in to the Cocoa world and use it to extend in-roads into other markets where a Distributed Objects/Client-Server/WOF 6 ObjC 2.0/Heterogeneous mixed set database backend clients can be better served.
Make WebKit a crucial part of the strategy for the Enterprise and extend it to add value to their consulting services teams.
If you're not going to be a Hardware/Software solution provider for more than the creative fields and general consumer don't waste your stock investors time and money on put resources partially into it.
Those "problems" have been fixed. And just a FYI. For a "bug" to be classified a "bug" it has to be "reproducible" at least 3 times on the same hardware with the same set-up.
Some of you people may have issues but they arn't bugs.So please stop calling them that. Some of the problems people have here are caused by the old adage garbage in , garbage out. Or better known as user error.
64 bit Unix certification comes with certain requirements. There will be a 64-bit PPC version coming so I wouldn't freak out over it.
Nothing wrong with using Tiger ....
I upgraded 2 of my 3 Macs to Leopard, but left one on Tiger. I have to agree with you. Right now, it's the Tiger box that feels more "stable and compatible" with everything. Leopard has more "flash" to it and a few nice functional improvements (no hangs when the Finder loses a network connection, for example!). But at the same time, many of my music-related apps aren't compatible with Leopard yet, and/or I have to spend $'s to upgrade to get them there. My VPN Tracker app requires a $60 update for the same reason.
Simple things like copying files to an NFS share on my Linux server worked just fine in Tiger, but are "wacky" in Leopard. (I get weird problems like "no permission" errors trying to copy them if I copy them from anyplace other than the OS X boot drive, using the Finder. Sometimes a file even copies 70% or so of the way and then reports I don't have permission to copy it!)
Leopard just needs a few more revisions to iron out bugs.... I feel like currently, it's just fine for the "typical user" who just surfs the net, uses the typical home/small business user type apps, and so forth. If your needs are more specialized or advanced though, Leopard will be a bit of a thorn in your side right now. At the very least, it's an upgrade that costs much more than the price of the product. IMHO, far too many shareware apps are charging for Leopard-compatible versions when that SHOULD be a free or VERY cheap upgrade.
I upgraded 2 of my 3 Macs to Leopard, but left one on Tiger. I have to agree with you. Right now, it's the Tiger box that feels more "stable and compatible" with everything. Leopard has more "flash" to it and a few nice functional improvements (no hangs when the Finder loses a network connection, for example!). But at the same time, many of my music-related apps aren't compatible with Leopard yet, and/or I have to spend $'s to upgrade to get them there. My VPN Tracker app requires a $60 update for the same reason.
Simple things like copying files to an NFS share on my Linux server worked just fine in Tiger, but are "wacky" in Leopard. (I get weird problems like "no permission" errors trying to copy them if I copy them from anyplace other than the OS X boot drive, using the Finder. Sometimes a file even copies 70% or so of the way and then reports I don't have permission to copy it!)
Leopard just needs a few more revisions to iron out bugs.... I feel like currently, it's just fine for the "typical user" who just surfs the net, uses the typical home/small business user type apps, and so forth. If your needs are more specialized or advanced though, Leopard will be a bit of a thorn in your side right now. At the very least, it's an upgrade that costs much more than the price of the product. IMHO, far too many shareware apps are charging for Leopard-compatible versions when that SHOULD be a free or VERY cheap upgrade.
Developer builds have historically been much bigger in size than what the final released version is. I'd expect to see that number cut down to 1/3 of 355, probably around 118 or so when it is released.
And I can tell that a lot of the users on here are recent mac switchers. It is not uncommon with any of the Apple releases for the first few updates to contain a ton of "bug" fixes, such as 10.5.2 having supposedly 76. A lot of those "bug" fixes will be minor, and a few major. Microsoft does the same thing with their service packs, such as SP1, SP2, etc. They contain a heck of a lot more than 76, plus, Microsoft releases updates to Windows XP and Vista on almost a daily basis. So, each OS company does it (except for the daily part). I'd rather them knock out a bunch of "bug" fixes now and see overall system improvements. I mean, stuff like memory leaks are bug fixes, which are a good thing to fix, but not a hugely important deal.
Everyone needs to calm down. I for one have had no problems with 10.5/10.5.1 on my 1.83 ICD2 MacMini. The only problems I have had are with some third party apps that sometimes freeze. I've had safari crash a few times, but that is mostly because of Flash animations, which would be Adobe's fault, not Apple's. I've not had one problem with Mail, and I use it every single day and leave it running the whole day. Same goes for my iBook G4. Hardly any problems. For the people complaining of "jerky" animations, it's probably because of an older graphics card (because on my MacMini, which has the basic Intel GMA graphics card, they are very nice). They're a little jerky on my iBook, but so what? My iBook shipped with 10.3 and it's running 10.5 so I'm not expecting it to be spectacular. That's be like me installing XP on a computer that shipped with Win98 and expecting it to be awesome.. Not going to happen. I guess I just don't understand why people have panic attacks every time an update is released. I mean if you were to have a panic attack for every time a Microsoft update was to come out, you'd be dead after 1 month? I guess what I am saying is just relax, let the updates come and be happy. If you have problems, go to Apple's support page and submit a "bug" report of the problems you are having. Apple does have developers look at each one of those to figure out what caused the problems. It could be because of Apple "bugs" or because of the other third party hacks or apps that you have installed. And trust me, they run through and try to replicate some of the problems to see if they can get the same result and figure out why it happened the way it did. And to be fair, Microsoft does the exact same thing. So, give Apple time. No OS will ever have all problems fixed over night in 1 single update.
Agreed. What I don't understand is why they didn't make stacks a feature you could turn on or off like spaces.
I've found it to be a big step backward in productivity at the expense of eye candy.
Not the end of the world though. I prefer stability and security to anything else no matter what OS I'm using.
Peace,
Will
A very good thing in my opinion. Done right a 64 bit implementation should provide for robust performance and good memory usage.
Don't say anything! 64 bit is the way of the future, contrary to all the negativity associated with it. As to the 32 bit user base I really can't feel sorry for you at all. The Intel transition pretty much left an obvious warning to those that choose to stay on 32 bit platforms. Further me and more than a few others have been strident in our warnings about 32 bit hardware.
Dave
I am glad to hear this news - I am a Java programmer, and have been wondering why Apple seemed to have dropped the ball on Java 6. I'm not having any serious Leopard issues at the moment but there is one thing I hope 10.5.2 fixes - that 20 second delay from when the screen shuts off to when the computer shuts off.
This is not directed at any one particular poster, but rather at six pages of Java posts:
man, you Java developers are a whiny bunch. Don't like Xcode? Can't stand having to use Leopard on a 64-bit CPU to develop for Java 6? boo friggin hoo. I've never used a Java app I actually liked, anyway. Learn a real programming language like Fortran, python or Perl, please.
Nobody really cares if you're gonna boot to Linux on your Pentium 4 in order to do some Java 6 work. Go do it and stop wasting space posting here. Frankly, the less Java code I see on the Mac, the better.
Java programming is for the lowest common denominator.
man, you Java developers are a whiny bunch. Don't like Xcode? Can't stand having to use Leopard on a 64-bit CPU to develop for Java 6? boo friggin hoo. I've never used a Java app I actually liked, anyway. Learn a real programming language like Fortran, python or Perl, please.
Nobody really cares if you're gonna boot to Linux on your Pentium 4 in order to do some Java 6 work. Go do it and stop wasting space posting here. Frankly, the less Java code I see on the Mac, the better.
Java programming is for the lowest common denominator.
Why must you have Java 6?
Sorry, but what Java 6 things must you absolutely have? Not an attack, but a sincere question. I'm developing a Java web app right now on my mac. I don't understand the comment "I can't do Java development on a mac without Java 6." Please enlighten me? I'm not saying having Java 6 would be bad, I'm just wondering why not having it is a "show stopper".
Sorry, but what Java 6 things must you absolutely have? Not an attack, but a sincere question. I'm developing a Java web app right now on my mac. I don't understand the comment "I can't do Java development on a mac without Java 6." Please enlighten me? I'm not saying having Java 6 would be bad, I'm just wondering why not having it is a "show stopper".
Simple question...if Java isn't a real programming language then why are soooo many enterprise apps being developed with it? Please don't say hype because hype doesn't last but so long. Java isn't the only language I know how to program, but to say it isn't a real language is silly on the face of it. Maybe that was just hyperbole...I hope so...
1. Disagree; the current behavior is most logical for the Mac-demographic. People will get lost without this.
2. It doesn't do this already? I suppose I don't use many apps like you describe, so I haven't seen it give focus to a toolbox.
3. ARGH! I think subtitles or closed captioning in DVD Player will cause a switch like this. Very annoying. An alternative might be to make the Dock icon jump.
Server-side Java is amazingly widely used and very, very fast when done right. I'd choose Java for intensive non-graphical apps over anything else...
That was exactly my point...maybe chem was only thinking about AWT/SWT apps. I have no stats to back it up, but the vast majority of Java developers I come in contact with build server-side Java apps.
Wait, so when the Intel Macs came out Apple said "Don't buy these new macs! Wait 10 months!"
I don't remember them saying that. What "warning" are you talking about?
Does that mean that this new version of Java won't work on my Mac.
This is a developer seed. Are you a developer?
Apple does developer seeds so that developers can find bugs. If Apple has a 32 bit version that they are quite confident with, and a 64 bit version that they are less confident with, then obviously a developer seed should contain the 64 bit version in order to find bugs.
So, did anyone installed 10.5.2 ???
lol.
I hope to God that English is not your first language.
And the vast majority of Java IDEs, and other tools such as XML Apps ( i.e., Oxygen), database clients ( i.e,. Aqua DS, DBVisualiser ) are built using Java, thus require a GUI. Client side Java apps are also important.
How many programmers would seriously use XCode over say Eclipse or IntelliJ for serious development? Not many - these people would be in the minority.
There aren't many differences between JDK5 and 6, compared to 4 and 5 but Java6 has better performance than Java5.