Apple Sends Out Refund Information to Australian iPad Customers

[sjo]

There is this little obstacle called "reality" which means there are no chips that would work on all the incompatible network implementations world wide. It is kind of silly to delay the new iPad for a year or more until such chips are available.

There's nothing special network implementation incompatibility here, just different frequencies. Ie, something that mobile terminal manufacturers have been able to take into consideration for at least couple of decades (since GSM). Apple has fat margins on their products that would easily support making a 4G version of the new Ipad that works outside the North America. They just want to make couple of more bucks.

The consumers (and the organizations advocating consumer rights) shouldn't settle for this return offer, they should say "No, I don't want to return since it's fine otherwise, I just want a $50 refund for the functionality that was falsely advertised".

 

[JAT]

There's nothing special network implementation incompatibility here, just different frequencies. Ie, something that mobile terminal manufacturers have been able to take into consideration for at least couple of decades (since GSM).

That doesn't mean the cell radio companies have made such an LTE device. Different frequencies are still a hardware issue, and the chip doesn't seem to exist.

Apple could have made several versions of the iPad, but most probably wouldn't be shipping, yet.

Best idea is they work with their suppliers to make a better chip, like they do with the A-series processors. They seem to have a blind spot, here. If I was an Apple exec, that is what I would have been bringing up in meetings the last year.

 

[WatchTheThrone]

You have completely missed the point and just to keep missing it.

Read up on consumer protection and KEEP OFF THE Apple koolaid.

(sips koolaide) I'm all for consumer protection but this is getting to the point that you treat people like they're children who can't buy **** for themselves. I mean before I buy a product that's gonna cost me at least $500 bucks, I at least research to see of its gonna work with the network that's available!!
Apple puts a * by 4G so ALWAYS READ THE FINEPRINT!!!! I can't stress that enough!! (sips more koolaide)

 

[the8thark]

And what do you base that on? Have you even tried NextG? You get 98% population coverage, and knowing the vast empty state of the continent, that's quite an achievement — for a network that is faster than ADSL2+M in almost every location.

Well it's not in my location. And I'm less then 30 KM from a capital city. Other areas further out can get it at a decent speed but I can not. There is nothing faster the ADSL1 in my location. I have looked into it very hard. If NextG was decent in my area and stable I'd swap my ADSL1 for it. But alas I can not.

NextG is good if you live very close to a capital city. But if you do not the decent coverage is patchy at best.

 

[jmccall]

Apple should also send out an apology on behalf of Canadian telco's who do not allow you to buy prepaid LTE via the iPad. There was no warning that in Canada, you are forced to submit to a credit check and call or visit a service provider store to subscribe to a monthly plan. LTE is also turned off by default on Rogers plans so you must explicitly request that LTE be turned on or you'll only get 3G speeds.

REALLY!!??

 

[jonnysods]

There it is. If you don't like it return it.

It makes sense that people weren't all that pleased, you call it 4G, and it doesn't work with 4G. Not a big deal though.

 

[gpsouza]

They made the new iPad available in more countries than ever before on launch day. Plus, it supports DC-HSDPA which no North American carrier supports.

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.

It's not about it's available or not. But see they last launches... iPad 4g just work within USA area, iPhone 4s with Siri at beginning only supporting English... Apple has a lot more country's to take care but they only do about USA...

 

[KPOM]

It's not about it's available or not. But see they last launches... iPad 4g just work within USA area, iPhone 4s with Siri at beginning only supporting English... Apple has a lot more country's to take care but they only do about USA...

Siri supported British English, Australian English, French, and German at launch.

Believe it or not, Apple is a company with finite resources. They can't do everything all at once or else they'd never release anything. They are based in the US and it is still their largest market, so it makes sense that often their products are optimized for the US market. That may change as China becomes more important. China, like the US, often does its own thing and doesn't always follow international standards.

Anyway, the iPad's lack of LTE outside North America is more a function of the relative lack of chipsets. They aren't a company that likes to make too many versions of a product, and they made a calculated gamble that higher-speed 3G would be sufficient for global sales. That isn't an option in the US (because our 3G networks are pretty bad), so they accommodated Verizon and AT&T (along with the three Canadian telcos who use the same frequencies as AT&T).

Next year, there will be better LTE chipsets that draw less power and support more frequencies natively. Just as Apple now has a single iPhone 4S that supports 3G and below on both CDMA and GSM, they likely will have single 4G/LTE iPad and iPhone models that will support global and US networks in the future. However, it just isn't feasible yet.

 

[sjo]

Apple could have made several versions of the iPad

Not several, they'd have solved this mess by making two (2) versions. North American and rest of the world.

It's not a question of finite resources, companies with far less resources than Apple are doing this all the time. There's absolutely nothing special here. If Apple couldn't find a way to do it, there are several ODMs with the required knowledge that would have happily lend a hand for Apple.

And Apple will have to do the rest of the world 4G version eventually anyway. It'll be fun to see how they'll spin the new 4G model that actually works with the networks the rest of the world customers have after they sell them a 4G version that doesn't and never will.

 

[WhoPhD]

Well it's not in my location. And I'm less then 30 KM from a capital city. Other areas further out can get it at a decent speed but I can not. There is nothing faster the ADSL1 in my location. I have looked into it very hard. If NextG was decent in my area and stable I'd swap my ADSL1 for it. But alas I can not.

NextG is good if you live very close to a capital city. But if you do not the decent coverage is patchy at best.

Yes but you didn't say if you were measuring NextG with the current iPad or an older one (or an iPhone). If you use a 3rd gen iPad, or one of those 4G USB dongles, you'll get DC-HSDPA which triples your real-world throughput, even in the suburbs if you're in range of a couple of towers.

 

[gpsouza]

Siri supported British English, Australian English, French, and German at launch.

Believe it or not, Apple is a company with finite resources. They can't do everything all at once or else they'd never release anything. They are based in the US and it is still their largest market, so it makes sense that often their products are optimized for the US market. That may change as China becomes more important. China, like the US, often does its own thing and doesn't always follow international standards.

Anyway, the iPad's lack of LTE outside North America is more a function of the relative lack of chipsets. They aren't a company that likes to make too many versions of a product, and they made a calculated gamble that higher-speed 3G would be sufficient for global sales. That isn't an option in the US (because our 3G networks are pretty bad), so they accommodated Verizon and AT&T (along with the three Canadian telcos who use the same frequencies as AT&T).

Next year, there will be better LTE chipsets that draw less power and support more frequencies natively. Just as Apple now has a single iPhone 4S that supports 3G and below on both CDMA and GSM, they likely will have single 4G/LTE iPad and iPhone models that will support global and US networks in the future. However, it just isn't feasible yet.

English is English. French and German are the only plus is siri.

It's not a reason to forget other costumers just because it's an American based company. Many cellphones have other bands for other countrys, it's just about making 2 versions of iPad, American iPad and rest of the world iPad, it's not a big deal, even a small company would do that!
Albeit USA have a enormous market, the sum of the rest of the world sales is bigger.

 

[Chlloret]

Not several, they'd have solved this mess by making two (2) versions. North American and rest of the world.

It's not a question of finite resources, companies with far less resources than Apple are doing this all the time. There's absolutely nothing special here. If Apple couldn't find a way to do it, there are several ODMs with the required knowledge that would have happily lend a hand for Apple.

And Apple will have to do the rest of the world 4G version eventually anyway. It'll be fun to see how they'll spin the new 4G model that actually works with the networks the rest of the world customers have after they sell them a 4G version that doesn't and never will.

Right now to cover all 27 frequencies used in the world with all emloyed 68 bands and 4 different antenna designs and 15 chips available, Apple would have to make 17 different iPads to cover the globe.

Considering that HDSPA networks are in most countries faster then the proposed (and generally not even available) LTE networks, the fragmentation in manufacturing all these different iPads would be madness.

Thats why no other manufacturer offers such a device, why should Apple? The tech moves on and soon (like with the iPad 4 or 5) chips and new antenna designs might be available and finally a world wide device might see the light of day.

 

[booksacool1]

This product supports very fast cellular networks

Not in the CBD it doesn't. The 0.1mbit you get on a heavily congested HSDPA network is hardly "very fast".
Fortunately the iPad has LTE.

Oh wait...

 

[d0vr]

Even without LTE @ 1800 MHz being supported, Australia's leading network still does pretty well with 3G.

Downstream: 22.90 Mbps
Upstream: 3.61 Mbps
Ping: 132 ms

Speed test:
[url=http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg560/scaled.php?server=560&filename=img0001o.png&res=medium]Image[/URL]

I do not understand the reasoning that because compared to the USA (whose telcos can't seem to get it right to save themselves), we have reasonable mobile broadband speeds, it's okay to show us misleading advertising. The iPad is not a world LTE device, and despite the small text, it was marketed as one (based on the fact most half savvy Australians associate 4G with LTE).

Apple needs a big fine from ACCC and to hopefully provide a world LTE variant of their iPad.

 

[BigAus]

Gotta say that in IMO the advertising by Apple did misrepresent that the ipad was 4G in Australia. After saying that the ipad was 4G on the website it then said choose your carrier. A company that expects people to buy their products on trust can't expect the same people to research every aspect of the product and carrier to ensure compatibility. Anyway, Apple did the right thing and corrected the mistake, which was probably just a result of laziness that dishonesty. Can't expect any more than that.

With regards to Apple not caring about countries outside the US, I strongly disagree. Can only talk for Australia as i live here, but I've also lived in the US, and Apple service and prices here are very close to the US. Might not be quite as good, but most companies in Australia charge us exorbitant prices and treat customers with contempt. Since our population is about half of California and only a small market I'd say Apple looks after us pretty well.

 

[the8thark]

Yes but you didn't say if you were measuring NextG with the current iPad or an older one (or an iPhone). If you use a 3rd gen iPad, or one of those 4G USB dongles, you'll get DC-HSDPA which triples your real-world throughput, even in the suburbs if you're in range of a couple of towers.

I have to agree with you. I was talking about iPhone 4S though. I know someone who has one and has used it in my area. I do agree there will be probably better iPad (3rd gen) speeds where I am though.

It is getting better all the time. So that's a plus. Hopefully in a few years it'll be really good here.

 

[Lightey]

English is English. French and German are the only plus is siri.

It's not a reason to forget other costumers just because it's an American based company. Many cellphones have other bands for other countrys, it's just about making 2 versions of iPad, American iPad and rest of the world iPad, it's not a big deal, even a small company would do that!
Albeit USA have a enormous market, the sum of the rest of the world sales is bigger.

No, English is not English. English has different dialects, just as many other languages do. Just as European Spanish is not the same as Mexican Spanish, or European French and Canadian French.

 

[KPOM]

English is English.

Tell that to someone in the US or UK. It's like Brazilian Portuguese compared to European Portuguese.

It's not a reason to forget other costumers just because it's an American based company. Many cellphones have other bands for other countrys, it's just about making 2 versions of iPad, American iPad and rest of the world iPad, it's not a big deal, even a small company would do that!
Albeit USA have a enormous market, the sum of the rest of the world sales is bigger.

They DO have bands that support the rest of the world. Just not LTE bands.

Apple has never been at the forefront of cellular connectivity. The first iPhone was EDGE in a 3G world. The iPhone 4S is 3G when most of its competitors support LTE (at least in the US). Including LTE in the new iPad is almost experimental from Apple's perspective because they didn't wait for the smaller, more efficient LTE chipsets to come out before including it. It makes sense for the US market since Verizon and AT&T are aggressively rolling out LTE. However, most of the rest of the world isn't there yet, so waiting isn't likely costing Apple noticeable sales outside the US.

Incidentally, are there loud cries that the US version of the Galaxy Nexus supports LTE, but the international version does not?

 

[gpsouza]

Tell that to someone in the US or UK. It's like Brazilian Portuguese compared to European Portuguese.

Yes is the same. I'm brazilian and my family is portuguese and stills the same. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to speak with british or australians without doing a language course. The main difference is only the accent and a few words that exist almost in both language, but are not used in a daily basis.
And, about the accent, in the USA you do (sorry if you're not american) have different accent within the same country, just as UK, Portugal or Brazil. Apple just implement a different accent management, but the main functions of Siri remains locked to USA only

]
They DO have bands that support the rest of the world. Just not LTE bands.

Apple has never been at the forefront of cellular connectivity. The first iPhone was EDGE in a 3G world. The iPhone 4S is 3G when most of its competitors support LTE (at least in the US). Including LTE in the new iPad is almost experimental from Apple's perspective because they didn't wait for the smaller, more efficient LTE chipsets to come out before including it. It makes sense for the US market since Verizon and AT&T are aggressively rolling out LTE. However, most of the rest of the world isn't there yet, so waiting isn't likely costing Apple noticeable sales outside the US.

Incidentally, are there loud cries that the US version of the Galaxy Nexus supports LTE, but the international version does not?

So, Apple announces a LTE device which, alongside Retina Display, is the main feature of iPad, but it doesn't work but they still advertise as if it was possible to use outside USA. It's not about having or not LTE, it's about advertise it. We (europeans) may not have the largest LTE network, but we do have! So why can't we use it? It's really quite simple to do 2 versions...

And I don't know about Nexus...

----------

No, English is not English. English has different dialects, just as many other languages do. Just as European Spanish is not the same as Mexican Spanish, or European French and Canadian French.

Just look to the answer I gave to KPMO

 

[Chlloret]

Yes is the same. I'm brazilian and my family is portuguese and stills the same. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to speak with british or australians without doing a language course. The main difference is only the accent and a few words that exist almost in both language, but are not used in a daily basis.
And, about the accent, in the USA you do (sorry if you're not american) have different accent within the same country, just as UK, Portugal or Brazil. Apple just implement a different accent management, but the main functions of Siri remains locked to USA only



So, Apple announces a LTE device which, alongside Retina Display, is the main feature of iPad, but it doesn't work but they still advertise as if it was possible to use outside USA. It's not about having or not LTE, it's about advertise it. We (europeans) may not have the largest LTE network, but we do have! So why can't we use it? It's really quite simple to do 2 versions...

And I don't know about Nexus...

----------



Just look to the answer I gave to KPMO

Well, I speak, if I speak English, the Queens English. If the iPhone 4S is set to lacation Spain, Siri to English (American) about 50% or more of querries go missing. When I switch to English (UK) 95% of responses are correct.
Apple even brought out an update to improve English (Australian) because in the beginning there where too many problems.
What the LTE is concerned, so was it very clear to me, from the beginning, that the LTE networks of North America will be supported, nobody else. My first and main clue was, that they even named the supported networks, with trademark. Granted, I work in the industry so I knew that there could not be any European, UK, Asien, Eurasien, Scandinavien, Korean, south Chineese, island Chineese or Bejing Chineese or indeed Hong Kong Chineese LTE support (all are incompatible to each other at this time).
I saw the main selling point in the remarkable Display and the noticable and massive speed increase of the build in modem. And that got nothing to do with LTE (except in the States) but the fakt, that the "3G" networks outside the States extreem faster perform then anything on the market today.

I for one are quite happy that European LTE is not supported yet, I rather enjoy faster speeds, better coverage and less battey drain and in a year, or better two, when LTE eventually takes off and promises decent speeds and the chips are available that can cope with the battery, then, yes, maybe I am interrested.

Of course, the question remains, for what we use these speeds on a portable, memory limited device. If I stream video or surf the net, I do not have any difference on the iPad at 7, 14, 21 or 38 Mbit/s. I can only see the difference on speedtest.net, but in practice there is no difference at all (except in the States, thats why they got LTE)

I thing with LTE (I tested the in Germany available Phone and there USB Sticks) and the atm available 20Mbit/s (if that) Movies will still be the same speed to watch, it would be stupid to speed up real time events.

Downloads are not an issue on a pad or phone, as your memory would be full within minutes, so thats only interesting on notebooks/computers.

There still seems to be the prevailing thought that LTE is faster then "3G", it is not. At least not right now. It IS faster in the States and, to an extent, in Sweden in some selected aereas or stationary (not the user case of an iPad) but other then that, we are right now better off with the existing networks.

 

[gnasher729]

I do not understand the reasoning that because compared to the USA (whose telcos can't seem to get it right to save themselves), we have reasonable mobile broadband speeds, it's okay to show us misleading advertising. The iPad is not a world LTE device, and despite the small text, it was marketed as one (based on the fact most half savvy Australians associate 4G with LTE).

Excuse me, so you are saying that "most half savvy Australians" are dimwits who read something into an advertisement that it doesn't say? I think you want us to underestimate their intelligence. And anyway, where does Apple claim on its Australian website that the iPad supports 4G?

 

[Chlloret]

Excuse me, so you are saying that "most half savvy Australians" are dimwits who read something into an advertisement that it doesn't say? I think you want us to underestimate their intelligence. And anyway, where does Apple claim on its Australian website that the iPad supports 4G?

Nobody said the Aussies can not make up there own mind or even read the ad and understand.
Its the australian consumer protection saying this. They said that Australien consumers are "missled". They did not produce any actual consumers that where.

 

[KPOM]

Yes is the same. I'm brazilian and my family is portuguese and stills the same. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to speak with british or australians without doing a language course. The main difference is only the accent and a few words that exist almost in both language, but are not used in a daily basis.
And, about the accent, in the USA you do (sorry if you're not american) have different accent within the same country, just as UK, Portugal or Brazil. Apple just implement a different accent management, but the main functions of Siri remains locked to USA only

I didn't say they weren't mutually intelligible. I just said they are different, which they are. Spelling is different. Pronunciation is different. Certain words are different (and not just slang words), as are certain grammatical rules.

We do have different accents in the US, but the differences aren't as great as the difference between American English and British English in general. As for Siri, I was a little surprised that they included Australian English but not Canadian English, but the more I think of it, at the spoken level there isn't much difference from American English (it's mostly at the written level). Perhaps as it matures, Siri will add an "International English" along with Indian English.

So, Apple announces a LTE device which, alongside Retina Display, is the main feature of iPad, but it doesn't work but they still advertise as if it was possible to use outside USA. It's not about having or not LTE, it's about advertise it. We (europeans) may not have the largest LTE network, but we do have! So why can't we use it?

Actually, in all the TV advertising I've seen here in the US, there is never a mention of LTE. The only feature ever mentioned is the Retina Display. The wireless capabilities are mentioned primarily on the website, fairly low down the page. Most iPads sold are Wi-Fi-only models.

Even the rumor sites the day before were suggesting that the international version might not ship with LTE support of any kind.

That said, Apple should have made the websites clearer at launch. I see now that they have fixed the pages. See the link to the UK site below. The wireless capabilities are still improved over the last version (faster support for HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA).

http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/features/

So why can't we use it? It's really quite simple to do 2 versions...

It might not be that simple. I looked at Vodafone's German website and saw only a single LTE-compatible device (an HTC Android phone). It's entirely possible Apple isn't able to get the chipsets in sufficient volume or yield. This is their first LTE device of any kind. If they are ordering a bunch of European-compatible LTE chipsets, my guess is that they are being allocated to the upcoming iPhone, which is far more important to Apple's profits than the iPad right now.

http://www.vodafone.de/privat/tarife/lte-smartphone.html?menuKey=1020


Unfortunately, LTE support is complicated. Even in the US, for once the carriers all agreed on the same air-to-ground transmission standard, but they all have different, non-overlapping spectrum. Apple will need to support 4 LTE frequencies just to get coverage on all of AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint's respective networks. Europe adds 3 more non-overlapping bands.

It's not just Apple. According to the Global Mobile Suppliers Association, a plurality of LTE devices are designed around the 700MHz spectrum, because of the pace of LTE adoption in North America.

Interestingly, the UK regulator is considering allocating the 700MHz spectrum to LTE, partly because of its wide scale acceptance in the US.

 

[gpsouza]

Well, I speak, if I speak English, the Queens English. If the iPhone 4S is set to lacation Spain, Siri to English (American) about 50% or more of querries go missing. When I switch to English (UK) 95% of responses are correct.
Apple even brought out an update to improve English (Australian) because in the beginning there where too many problems.
What the LTE is concerned, so was it very clear to me, from the beginning, that the LTE networks of North America will be supported, nobody else. My first and main clue was, that they even named the supported networks, with trademark. Granted, I work in the industry so I knew that there could not be any European, UK, Asien, Eurasien, Scandinavien, Korean, south Chineese, island Chineese or Bejing Chineese or indeed Hong Kong Chineese LTE support (all are incompatible to each other at this time).
I saw the main selling point in the remarkable Display and the noticable and massive speed increase of the build in modem. And that got nothing to do with LTE (except in the States) but the fakt, that the "3G" networks outside the States extreem faster perform then anything on the market today.

I for one are quite happy that European LTE is not supported yet, I rather enjoy faster speeds, better coverage and less battey drain and in a year, or better two, when LTE eventually takes off and promises decent speeds and the chips are available that can cope with the battery, then, yes, maybe I am interrested.

Of course, the question remains, for what we use these speeds on a portable, memory limited device. If I stream video or surf the net, I do not have any difference on the iPad at 7, 14, 21 or 38 Mbit/s. I can only see the difference on speedtest.net, but in practice there is no difference at all (except in the States, thats why they got LTE)

I thing with LTE (I tested the in Germany available Phone and there USB Sticks) and the atm available 20Mbit/s (if that) Movies will still be the same speed to watch, it would be stupid to speed up real time events.

Downloads are not an issue on a pad or phone, as your memory would be full within minutes, so thats only interesting on notebooks/computers.

There still seems to be the prevailing thought that LTE is faster then "3G", it is not. At least not right now. It IS faster in the States and, to an extent, in Sweden in some selected aereas or stationary (not the user case of an iPad) but other then that, we are right now better off with the existing networks.

I understand the different accent in each country, my point still that Siri is only usable within USA area. The good stuff, such as look for a nice restaurant, directions, blablabla doesn't work outside USA.

Alongside the Retina display, comes LTE, otherwise it wouldn't be available yet.
My point isn't having or not LTE, from beginning I said that Apple isn't caring that much for non-USA customers, and my example was Siri and LTE.

I don't mind not using LTE because I have an iPad 2, and my model even is the 3G. Just get me frustrated that we come in 2nd place.

You see Brazil... They only got the Brazilian iTunes Store and App Store this year, before, they had to use USA or Argentine Store, which can't be used without USA or Argentine credit cards... So people that don't know that gets like about an incredible amount of cracked apps that they use.

 

[GoCubsGo]

such a hassle over minuscule facts

I couldn't agree more.
But isn't that the way? It's nice that they're offering a full refund but let's face it, few of any will bother.