Apple Wireless Keyboard and Mouse - Confirmed

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by contempt
My previous experiences with wireless mice have been they're a bit difficult to control ...

Also, the preference panel didn't show any configuration options. I really like my MS Explorer, one because it's a five button mouse, and two because I can have different configurations for each application. Apple definitely needs to allow for that.

I have to agree about the MS Explorer. Config wise it's one of the best mice I've used. However, if you want to go wireless then I can recommed the Logitech MX700, I've not noticed any lag or control problems. Not as configurable but plenty of buttons.

e.

 

[simX]

This "Apple really needs to get with the game and release a two-button mouse" is getting really old.

Yes, Apple would be admitting it was "wrong" all those years if it went ahead and released a two-button mouse. But, see, the thing is, it wasn't wrong and it still isn't. Apple should not release a two-button mouse as standard equipment on new Macs.

Study after study has shown that, despite what everyone else has said in this thread, new computer users are confused by more than one button. They start clicking the wrong button, and then new menus start popping up and they can't figure out for the life of them what they are doing differently.

*shakes head* No, Apple would be stupid to release a standard two-button mouse across all of its product lines. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

If these bluetooth mice do indeed have more than one button, you can be sure that they will ONLY be build-to-order options at the time of purchase or available separately. They will never become standard, no matter how "1990s" 1-button mice are.

 

[RalphNumbers]

Re: Re: AA batteries? Too bad... NOT!

Originally posted by esheep2001
Personally I prefer the Logitech cradle. No messing having to find the cable and fiddle with it plugging it in, just drop the mouse in and let it suck up the juice.

As for AA's. That's one of the reasons I went for the MX700! It takes 2 NiMH AA's which are recharged when the mouse is docked. That way when the batteries die after a few years all I need to do is pop out and buy some more or use ordinary AA's.

I'm actually quite bothered by my iPod having an internal battery. What will I do when that stops holding juice? Chuck it away?! Send it off for a replacement which will likely cost more than a new iPod? Only be able to use it when it's plugged in?

Nah! Easily replacable batteries are a much better option IMHO.

e.

Replacable batteries are fine, as long as they're rechargable within the device. I assumed AA=normal non-rechargable Alkaline AA.

Also, unlike my idea, your mouse's scheme with a cradle seems to indicate that you can't use it while it's charging. That might be fine with a 3rd party mouse, where you'll probably have a wired backup mouse to use while it charges, but in a mouse that is shipped with a computer, It would be unacceptable imho.

 

[elmimmo]

Re: Ancient Chinese proverb:

Originally posted by srobert
"The wise man could always use, only one button, on a two button mouse if he wishes so. But he can wish all he want, he'll never be able to use two buttons on a one button mouse."

Ha, ha, ha!! LOL (BTW, isn't the acronym LOL lame? Using initials for emotions :-? That has always been the realm of smilies) So there I go.



Macrumors should have a sections of "Best quotes of all time" and this proverb should go in there.

BTW, gosh... should we just trigger a chat or what. This grows fast...

Originally posted by simX
new computer users are confused by more than one button. They start clicking the wrong button, and then new menus start popping up and they can't figure out for the life of them what they are doing differently.

I'm 100% with you. During all the years I was a MacOS ignorant, and during the first times I started using it, I just could not understand how Apple was, besides that stupid, bold enough to openly defend 1 button only. Until I get used to it and then tried to get my mother used to Window's 2 buttons. Windows is a way more difficult OS to use for newcomers by that very simple fact (among others).

 

[whawho]

Originally posted by simX

If these bluetooth mice do indeed have more than one button, you can be sure that they will ONLY be build-to-order options at the time of purchase or available separately.

That's all I'm asking for ... (even if it isn't an apple branded) I don't care.

It's a bummer that when you buy a brand new computer that you immediatley have to buy a new mouse. I'm not saying to ever ditch the one-buttoned version (a lot of people like them) just give people that know how to use two-buttons the BTO option, not every user is new to computers.

 

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by simX
Study after study has shown that, despite what everyone else has said in this thread, new computer users are confused by more than one button. They start clicking the wrong button, and then new menus start popping up and they can't figure out for the life of them what they are doing differently.

However, Apple could include a two button mouse with their pro-level systems without ever admitting that the one-button mouse isn't right for most computer users. Professional applications rely more and more on contextual menus, and Apple would do well to acknowlede this. Software has changed significantly since the one button mouse was first introduced.

It can be reasonable argued that few "new computer users" who have never used a mouse before should be buying a pro-level machine... and the people who *are* spending $3000+ on a new G5 system probably won't be too confused by a 2-button mouse.

 

[MacUser1]

patent

didn't apple receive a patent or something to include an "ipod-like" scroll wheel on a mouse? i think it was posted here on macrumors, if i find it i'll post it. do you think they would implement it into this new bluetooth mouse?

 

[esheep2001]

Re: Re: Re: AA batteries? Too bad... NOT!

Originally posted by RalphNumbers
Also, unlike my idea, your mouse's scheme with a cradle seems to indicate that you can't use it while it's charging.


True

That might be fine with a 3rd party mouse, where you'll probably have a wired backup mouse to use while it charges, but in a mouse that is shipped with a computer, It would be unacceptable imho.

Surely that depends on the battery life?

I think we've become accustomed to short battery life due to the current crop of laptops and PDAs and even some mobile phones.

I used to use a Psion 3a organiser. That used two AAs and kept going for between 4 and 6 weeks without needing them to be changed. A small watch backup battery held it in stasis whilst you changed the batteries for new ones. The older Palms were equally good. These days though, everything seems to eat power for breakfast leaving you in search of a power socket for lunch!

I haven't tried to see how long my MX700 will go without a recharge but I've seen reviews saying between 5 and 10 days. NiMH batteries are notorious for not holding charge well when they're new. They need wearing in! After a few days they tend to be much better. So son't believe all the reviews you read.

The MX has an LED that flashes to say battery is low, again I'm not sure how much warning it gives you (yet) but I'd be suprised if you couldn't get to the end of what you're doing before having to pop it on the cradle. I've had mine three days now, one overnight charge followed by two days solid(ish) use and still no warning light.

I wonder what the battery life of the new apple kit will be? 4 AAs for the KB seems like a lot I have to say. I'd have a bigger problem with a wireless KB that ran out of juice on me than a mouse I have to admit.

Having said all that, I think I have to agree with you that a cordless mouse as a part of a shipped system would be a mistake. You need to have at least something as a backup is only for peace of mind.

e.

 

[mattalici]

two buttons are one too many

Apple is going to stick with the one button mouse. If they do go two, I will be mega surprised. Who needs two buttons? Pro users. And they have an unlimited number of 3rd party options.

The one button mouse is brilliant, minimalist and if you take any cues at all from the hardware design or the OS design, it's pretty clear there will always only be one button.

Simplicity and ease of use "for the rest of us", or them, I should say... not us guys who know better.

 

[simX]

Originally posted by Flowbee
However, Apple could include a two button mouse with their pro-level systems without ever admitting that the one-button mouse isn't right for most computer users. Professional applications rely more and more on contextual menus, and Apple would do well to acknowlede this. Software has changed significantly since the one button mouse was first introduced.

And that's the fundamental problem. Software should never, EVER rely on contextual menus to do something. There should *ALWAYS* be an alternative way of performing a specific action other than forcing a user to right-click. Apple has always followed this one simple design principle (of course, it's not the only one), which is one of the reasons why their software is easy to use.

I'm not saying contextual menus are bad, but forcing users to use them is bad form, and is a big reason why Windows software is so confusing (even to me, an experienced computer user IIMSSM). Including two-button mice as standard on all Macs would be just one step towards this confusing future, and one step towards a more complicated system.

One-button mice should be offered by default, with two-button mice as extras that you can buy if you really want it. Perhaps a "trade in trade up" program would be in order, where you could trade in your one-button mouse for a discount off a two-button mouse.

 

[elmimmo]

Originally posted by elmimmo
Definitely the most innovative and useful method for battery life concerns would be to implement this. Very good for preventing carpal tunnel syndrome, maybe not so much for tendinitis... And should they add two handles for the keyboard then?

Originally posted by esheep2001
LOL! [...] I can just see a dilbert cartoon of this if it were implemented in mice and especially keyboards

I guess you are refering to this Dilbert meets Powerbook strip.

 

[RalphNumbers]

Re: Re: Re: Re: AA batteries? Too bad... NOT!

Originally posted by esheep2001
Surely that depends on the battery life?

Not especially. No matter what the battery life, Murphy's law dictates that the end of that life will come while you're doing something important.

If everyone remembered to leave their mouse in thier crade when not in use, and the batteries could be constantly charged, this wouldn't be a problem, but alot of people aren't usually that responsible.

I know my roomate's wireless optical mouse was allways dieing in the middle of a game. after a couple months, he just chucked it in his closet and used his plain old wired optical mouse full time.

Having a mouse that can recharge while in use with just one cord would prevent that kind of problem. It's the kind of obvious yet cool innovation I would want from apple.

 

[mstecker]

I'm posting this right now from Omniweb 4 running on my NeXT Cube. My NeXT mouse has 2 buttons.

So, at some point, Steve saw the two-button light. It's only a matter of time before he brings Apple back around on this.

 

[cb911]

sounds promising.

wasn't there some confusion a whilel back about the apple pro keyboard going missing from the Apple Store? being replaced with the eMac keyboard or something?

i bet these new keyboards and mice will be designed to go with the new PowerMacs, they should be sweet.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by MoparShaha
If its not a two button mouse with scroll, I'll go insane. C'mon apple, get with the 21st century.

Add me to the list. I _NEED_ a two button mouse. Its worse for laptop users though. At least with a PowerMac you can replace the mouse. Its not like I can rip the buttons out of a PowerBook

 

[mstecker]

Maybe, just maybe, they're holding the new Powerbooks until the new bluetooth stuff is ready... becuase ... because .... the new Powerbooks have 2 button mice!

 

[agentmouthwash]

Originally posted by mstecker
Maybe, just maybe, they're holding the new Powerbooks until the new bluetooth stuff is ready... becuase ... because .... the new Powerbooks have 2 button mice!

ha I was thinking the same thing...


How long do you thing the battery would last on a bluetooth mouse?

 

[raschild]

All I can say is bring it (bluetooth keyboard/mouse) on!! Go Apple!!

 

[rjstanford]

Re: two buttons are one too many

Apple is going to stick with the one button mouse. If they do go two, I will be mega surprised. Who needs two buttons? Pro users. And they have an unlimited number of 3rd party options.

Aww, come on. I'm a pro user. I use a laptop. I have ZERO options, other than lugging around another piece of crap to plug into a system that's supposed to be self-contained. Or a BT mouse, which I still have to carry around when I really have no use for it whatsoever except for a single additional button. By all means, leave the iBook with one button, but the PowerBook should move to two buttons at the next rev.

The one button mouse is brilliant, minimalist and if you take any cues at all from the hardware design or the OS design, it's pretty clear there will always only be one button. (emphasis added)

'scuse me?

How many times do you see "Use CTRL-click to ..." these days in the OS? Heck, how often did Jobs mention multiple mouse buttons in his recent keynote?

-Richard

 

[tex210]

buttons menus and scroll wheels oh my

I am one of those users that had pc'd for a while. Once you adjust to the two button scroll wheel, it is hard to go back. If they change to multiple buttons, it is not admitting they were wrong, it is saying, "Go ahead and switch to Apple!" From the hockey puck(which I used regularly until optical took off), I moved to the Kensington optical pro, when it died (because I dropped it a million times getting caught in the mile long cord!), I now use my wacom tablet mouse. Two buttons and a scroll wheel, no batteries! How do they do that? Magnetics? Anyway, the tablet goes on my lap, I can sit back and browse the web.
With that said... If it were not for the one button mouse, my buisiness partner would still be computer illiterate. He has become proficient in everyday use of our office iMac, which has the Apple Pro mouse. When he's on my machine, I've learned not to say,"now right click on...." as he just gets a glazed look in his eyes. He just uses the one button, and is quite content. He never scrolls, which I can't personally understand, but hey, it works for him!
My suggestion? Make the right button a different shape/texture/place...or how about a one button with a scroll wheel? I'll keep my wacom though... I like switching to the pen when I am editing photos or building a web site.
OT : anyone know if Inkwell got beefed up in Panther?

oh, As for laptops... the control key is right there... come on, oh come on...

 

[fixyourthinking]

I wish it were like the 17" PowerBook and backlit

I have the eluminX keyboard and at first I thought it would be a novelty but it turns out that the backlighting (even in a well lit room) is much easier to use and to top it off you don't have to have a bright light glaring on you at night.


I wish Apple would make a wired keyboard that backlit.

 

[job]

I don't think we will see a light-up keyboard that is wireless. Too many problems.

However, I would like to see a wired lightup key board.

So, who would choose what? A lightup wired keyboard, or a wireless, normal keyboard?

 

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by simX
And that's the fundamental problem. Software should never, EVER rely on contextual menus to do something. There should *ALWAYS* be an alternative way of performing a specific action other than forcing a user to right-click. Apple has always followed this one simple design principle (of course, it's not the only one), which is one of the reasons why their software is easy to use.

I have to strongly disagree here. This may have been a good principle to rigidly adhere to in 1984, but things have moved quite far since MacPaint. Tell me how to do "Open link in new window" and "Copy link to clipboard" without a mouse-activated contextual menu.

Originally posted by simX
One-button mice should be offered by default, with two-button mice as extras that you can buy if you really want it. Perhaps a "trade in trade up" program would be in order, where you could trade in your one-button mouse for a discount off a two-button mouse.

I can see the point that you (and others) are making relative to new users. So I agree that 2 buttons should be a BTO option, if at all. But as has been mentioned before, there are plenty of third-party solutions, and the OS support for them is quite good. So a BTO option for desktops is not really necessary. In fact, it may even be worse than the status quo--because 3rd-party mice might be driven out of the market by freely-included BTO 2-button mice, and 3rd-party mouse options are currently better than Apple's offerings IMO (aside from the number of buttons, even).

My main concern is with LAPTOPS! You can't get a third-party trackpad! This is the place where Apple really needs to get on the ball and provide a 2-button BTO option.

 

[appleguru1]

More interesting images...

uAlong with the mose file attached earlier, there is a keyboard profile. The mouse image is named "btMouse.png", the keyboard, "btKeyboard.png". So, these images are definitly for BT mice. I don't see any indication of signal strength, but I could be wrong. These images have not been used or existed previously.

The profiles suggest that they wont change much from the current design...

Keyboard image attached...

 

[appleguru1]

There is also an image for the G5 door being ajar (Prolly the same one for G4s...)... cool: