Apple's preliminary Proxy Statement - PRSI spin-off thread

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ikev85, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. ikev85, Dec 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2012

    macrumors member

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    Mar 6, 2012
    #1
    MOD NOTE

    This is the PSRI spin-off thread for the front page thread discussing Apple's preliminary Proxy Statement.

    ___________

    all whilst paying their retail employees $9/hr

    Thanks capitalism. :rolleyes:

    out of touch.
     
  2. macrumors newbie

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    Jan 11, 2008
    #2
    Yes, however these retail employees wouldn't have their jobs if it wasn't for this group of execs.
     
  3. macrumors 65816

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    Apr 22, 2008
    #3
    The starting wage is $9 and the average is $11.64.

    They're on the shop floor, just like any other multi-billion pound company. Walmart, Tesco etc.. I don't see why they should get paid more just because it's Apple.

    If you're good at your job and stick with it you can jump on the 'Genius' bandwagon, who's starting salary is $32,000 up to $49,000 and beyond.
     
  4. macrumors 601

    Plutonius

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    New Hampshire
    #4
    Yep and the $9/hour people can do his job. \sarcasm

    The retail people get paid the going rate for the job they are performing and what makes them deserving of a higher rate ? If other companies paid $100/hour for a similar job, Apple would also be paying $100/hour. If you want more than $9/hour, get a degree in an area with high demand and put in some effort. Too many people think that they are deserving and that other people owe them.
     
  5. macrumors 6502

    DanielSw

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    #5
    Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Pay is commensurate with skill/responsibility level.
     
  6. macrumors G5

    Rogifan

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    #6
    You do realize that every one of those retail employees has the opportunity to be a Tim Cook if they want? No one is forcing them to work in retail for $9/hr or whatever th going wage is.
     
  7. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #7
    Funny reasoning. Don't you think that nearly everyone would want to be Tim Cook? Do you think anyone would prefer to work for poverty wages?
     
  8. macrumors G5

    Rogifan

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    #8
    I can tell you I wouldn't want to be Tim Cook or any other CEO. I don't care hw much they get paid. But the fact is if someone wants it the opportunity is there. And if other retailers are paying more per hour than Apple I'm sure just about any Apple retail employee could find a job at one of these higher paying retailers.
     
  9. macrumors member

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    May 31, 2012
    #9
    $9/hr is pretty decent for retail.

    What would you have them pay? :rolleyes:

    Out of touch.
     
  10. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #10
    Sure it is. You want it, you got it.
     
  11. macrumors regular

    THOPMedia

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    #11
    Uhhh, try $11.82/hr average. Which is significantly higher than most retail sales.

    Best Buy - $9.72
    Target - $9.00
    Walmart - $9.00

    Out of touch
     
  12. macrumors member

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    Location:
    Danville, CA
    #12
    This means Apple pays its lowest rate workers 30% higher than other large companies listed. This is not insignificant. And could be applied all the way to the higest levels, possibly making someone like Tim Cook underpaid compared to CEO's of those other companies. Of course he is new to the position and I am sure his compensation will increase if he maintains Apple's growth.
     
  13. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #13
    You realize I hope that working 40 hours a week at these wages adds up to less than $25k gross per year, and this assumes a person can get 40 hours a week. Usually they can't -- full-time work in retail is typically not available, as the retailers maximize part-timers to keep benefit expenses down. These are basically dead-end, burnout, poverty wage jobs with almost no opportunity for advancement. It is hardly comforting to know that Apple is only one of the best of the worst.

    This hasn't got much to do with what Apple's top execs are paid, but it does serve as yet another example of how the distribution of wealth has migrated over the past 30-40 years. Apple can't be expected to fix this problem, at least not all by themselves -- but just the same, it is not something to be treated as good and normal, let alone, celebrated.
     
  14. macrumors regular

    THOPMedia

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    #14
    You are generalizing all retail. Apple retail is one of the most highly sought after retail sales positions in the US. They are also one of the most fun places to work in the retail industry and certainly in consumer electronics retail. I have many friends who have worked at Apple retail stores and they love it! They have advanced into management quite frequently and have better job security than anyone else I know. Most of them have worked there for 5+ years. None of them are burnt out. They are my most active and healthy friends; physically, socially and emotionally. None of them are living at poverty levels of any kind. In fact most of them have decided to go back to school for more education.

    You make one of the best places to work (for the average high school educated person) in America sound like the Great Depression.

    Good job Negative Nancy.
     
  15. macrumors 6502

    DrDomVonDoom

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    #15
    You know you are talking about retail correct? One of the most easiest entry level jobs to get, where most people get their first jobs, not because its sought after, however I wouldn't mind working in a Apple Store, especially if its more then I currently make and I am by no means inpoverished, not in the Charlie Bucket, 4 family members in a bed eating cabbage soup every night way.

    Your feeling what the rest of the world has felt about America. You I am sure, talk of the 1%, but I guarantee you, you never consider your the 1% when it comes to the entire world.
     
  16. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #16
    None of which responded to a single thing I actually said. I can represent my opinions entirely by myself, thank you. Anyhow, some interesting reading, for the open minded:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/b...-on-pay.html?ref=business&pagewanted=all&_r=0
     
  17. macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    According to BLS statistics, the disparity in the distribution of wealth hasn't migrated much because of hourly retail wages. Today's (well, June, 2012) retail trade non-supervisory average hourly earnings are only 7% less in constant dollars than they were in June of 1982, thirty years ago.

    The increase in income disparity is far more attributable to the highly compensated generating far more income than before, mostly because of incentive pay in the form of equity-based compensation, and because of investment returns (over that same 30 year period the Dow is up some 1200%).

    in other words, it's not so much that the poor are getting a little more poor, but that the rich are getting a lot more rich.
     
  18. macrumors 68000

    iGrip

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    #18
    Naw, 5 more years at a minimum.
     
  19. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #19
    "Only" 7% is real downward mobility. The other part of this story is that the numbers of higher-wage jobs in manufacturing have shrunk substantially during this period and the lower-wage service jobs have absorbed much of this employment. This tandem of forces has shifted the U.S. from being one of the most economically mobile populations in the world 35 years ago, to one of the least mobile today. This is a very real, and well-documented change in the workforce. The reality should not be ignored or glossed over.

    We should ask ourselves how companies like Apple can avail themselves of a steady stream of college graduates to staff their retail stores. Instead of taking career-path jobs in the professions in which they were educated, they are often forced to spend several years working in a low-paid, dead-end retail environment that contributes nothing to their future earnings capacity. I realize that this has become the new normal for the current generation but they should know that it hasn't always been this way.

    I was thinking of my first job out of college. It was in my profession. As a job it wasn't great (it sucked actually) but it paid more in actual dollars (in 1979) than what Apple pays their store employees today, so that would be probably twice as much in constant dollars. Working in a chosen profession was the expectation of college graduates then. I guess it just isn't anymore; but I can't see how it is good thing that so many young people have lowered their expectations this much.

    I hate to think what this means for the future, especially when I see so many people not only accepting but defending the new status quo.
     
  20. macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #20
    This is a big problem Americans have lowered their expectations in regards to everything..
     
  21. Cartaphilus, Dec 28, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012

    macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 24, 2007
    #21
    I agree. We all need to recognize that the disappearance of relatively well-paying union manufacturing jobs has deprived our hard-working but non-accademically-inclined "C" students of a reasonable opportunity to build the middle-class life their parents did. Instead, these job seekers shift the supply curve for retail floor workers rightward, contributing to that 7% erosion.

    Many of those who would have been happy and productive in factory jobs, construction, and other forms of skilled and semi-skilled labor find their job prospects bleak, and they sometimes seek success by incurring tens of thousands of dollars of debt to attend lightly-regarded colleges where they are often no more happy or successful than they were in high school. Even those who manage to graduate are not readily finding the opportunities they sought, while those who fail find themselves saddled with impossible debts that are not dischargeable in bankruptcy and no job. Recovery from the current recession will help, but not nearly enough to call the problem solved.

    Since it is unlikely that our high school students will ever all be above average, we need to find useful and productive jobs that provide a reasonable standard of living for everyone who wants to work. If we can't we risk becoming like the middle-classless countries many of our ancestors fled in favor of a land of opportunity. Whether in a flatter world of global and barrier-free competition we can create enough such jobs is the single most important question our economy and our society face. Fiscal cliffs, deficits, public debt, and tax policy pale in significance next to this overarching issue. It's hard to imagine there's an easy solution, but it's impossible to make any progress while so many fail to see the problem.
     

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