Apple's Retail Store Staff Compensation Criticized

[Mr Fide]

Amazing staff

Here's how amazing the staff at America's Apple store are.

My wife and I were in the States three years ago and went the Apple Store at a mall in the LA area. We spoke to a sales guy there for a while.

That night we were at a restaurant more than an hour away from there, and the same guy came and sat at the table next to us.

How's that for amazing customer service? I don't know how he even knew we were going to be at that restaurant. We didn't even know. We just went in there and suddenly, there he was. It's not like we had iPhones or anything so he could trace our location.

The weird thing was, he wasn't friendly to us at the Apple Store and he didn't even talk to us at the restaurant.

 

[TMar]

Capitalism, Libertarianism, Free Marketism has never really worked. Workers get the shaft while execs reap the benefits.

I read all of the "these employees should be happy to make ~$12/hour ("still better than minimum wage"), if they don't like it go work elsewhere, a job's a job" comments but really, that kind of money is not a living wage to begin with.

To be fair, many companies deserve this kind of criticism, it just so happens that Apple is the target here.

No matter the job, workers have rights. Making a living wage, one where an individual does not have to worry about where their next meal will come from, whether or not they'll be able to make this month's rent, or a disaster will leave them in the poorhouse, should be a right to any person regardless or job title.

"Necessitous men are not free men" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt


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*Full disclosure. I make money on the side by trading stocks (capitalism). I am currently holding several positions in various companies and one of them is a long position in AAPL.

Again if someones career choice is retail salesperson at the local mall, then they don't have much room to complain. It is NOT a career. $12/hr is a living wage. The problem is most people don't live within their means. I've worked minimum wage jobs and listen to co workers complain about how broke they were. Yet I didn't live paycheck to paycheck. They choose to spend money on stuff they didn't need.

It's like some of our state workers that complain about the furlough days. If you're live so close to means that you can't take a 4 days a year hit then you need to reassess where some of your bills.

 

[fitshaced]

Nothing. Except compassion, the desire to see society as a whole prosper rather than a few selfish individuals who got lucky, a sense of fairness maybe? The apparent lack of these basic human feelings in this thread, or labelling of them as 'defeatism', 'communism' etc saddens me beyond belief. I don't care if it's Apple or Walmart, we all deserve better than the race to the bottom determined by such a slavish adherence to the inhuman principles of this kind of capitalism.

And to those self proclaimed stockholders here calling the retail staff undeserving monkeys, what exactly was it you did to further Apples prosperity? Oh you sat on your backside gambling. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

Why is it not ok now for these employees to get paid what they get paid when it was perfectly fine for them to take these jobs at these rates?

----------

Here's how amazing the staff at America's Apple store are.

My wife and I were in the States three years ago and went the Apple Store at a mall in the LA area. We spoke to a sales guy there for a while.

That night we were at a restaurant more than an hour away from there, and the same guy came and sat at the table next to us.

How's that for amazing customer service? I don't know how he even knew we were going to be at that restaurant. We didn't even know. We just went in there and suddenly, there he was. It's not like we had iPhones or anything so he could trace our location.

The weird thing was, he wasn't friendly to us at the Apple Store and he didn't even talk to us at the restaurant.

Eh?

 

[aottke]

Did you read the article? Where in it did the NYT propose that the government should mandate pay raises based on company success? Stop trying to make this political. If you disagree with the NYT's perspective, that's your prerogative. But turning this political is a bit silly.

The NYT is a media outlet. They should be sharing news, not political views. Either way, it's incredibly anti-capitalist. A ton of these retail people are students and a lot work part-time. A $25,000/yr takeaway isn't bad for retail, seeing as it's an average. Apple pays well -- period. And it's not the retail staff that fuels Apple's massive sales -- it's the beyond-impressive products that the SIR Jonathan Ives of Apple build from the ground up to be the best in the market. They virtually sell themselves. This is bogus. I'm sick of people who are upset that someone made a great product and gets rewarded for it...

 

[CapnJackGig]

Came in expecting the blind fanboys to side against the employees, and I didn't leave disappointed. Absolutely pathetic.

 

[mnemonix]

Why is it not ok now for these employees to get paid what they get paid when it was perfectly fine for them to take these jobs at these rates?

It's never been ok to me, so it's quite acceptable for me to hold this position.

What is it with all this 'people chose to accept these jobs' comments? Does no one realise how hard it is out there to find any kind of job at the moment? I'm sure if they didn't accept these jobs and claimed welfare, you'd be the first to denigrate them for this too. And not everyone is cut out to be a professional, yet society could no more function without it's working class than the swathes of smug 'management' types on inflated salaries telling everyone else to live within their means while counting the income from their stocks and praising capitalism to the sky.

 

[charlituna]

Apple's pay rates are above average for the retail sector, but the Times argues that with each retail store employee bringing in an average of $500,000 in sales per year Apple is not a typical retailer.

So what, the NYT thinks they should pay the employees more because of the money they bring in. Such as say a commission. That's great. Now you'll have sales staff focused on making high priced sales and getting 'add ons' rather than what's right for the customer.

and the trainers etc that don't do sales will get nothing in commissions.

Great plan NYT

 

[fitshaced]

It's never been ok to me, so it's quite acceptable for me to hold this position.

What is it with all this 'people chose to accept these jobs' comments? Does no one realise how hard it is out there to find any kind of job at the moment? I'm sure if they didn't accept these jobs and claimed welfare, you'd be the first to denigrate them for this too. And not everyone is cut out to be a professional, yet society could no more function without it's working class than the swathes of smug 'management' types on inflated salaries telling everyone else to live within their means while counting the income from their stocks and praising capitalism to the sky.

Nope, I want them to do these jobs. But if they feel try need more money, then they need to do something about it. This article won't get them (another) pay rise, or atleast a significant one.

Sure, it's hard to get a job these days. But if you have one, be grateful. A previous poster mentioned how he lived on minimum wage, something these guys aren't expected to do. People too often live too fast for their money. If people were smarter, their current wages would suffice. Having an 46 inch LED tv is not a priority. But even people on minimum wage are buying them. Even people claiming welfare.

 

[charlituna]

When a company is as successful as Apple is, they draw a lot of attention. It's not unusual for them to be scrutinized. Apple loves the headlines anyway. The more attention the better. It's what makes the brand a very recognized name.

Something makes me doubt that Apple loves headlines that basically call them cheap, slave driving douche bags. Because contrary to the saying, not all press is good press

 

[Snowshiro]

If the Apple Store don't like their salaries, they are more than welcome to go work somewhere else.

Capitalism wins here.

Absolutely astounding.

There is widespread despair around the world about the fact that the rich elite are being rewarded and getting richer, and the gap between the top and bottom is getting wider despite corporate profits being at an all time high.

But as soon is it comes to Apple, rabid fanboyism just throws that sentiment out of the window and it's f%k you to anyone who dares question whether it would be fairer to spread some of that profit around a bit.

 

[acslater017]

To all the people claiming "It's only retail, quit whining":

Do Apple Stores resemble Old Navy, Pacsun, or the other retail stores at the mall? Do Specialists simply ring you up on the cash register and ask "do you want fries with that?" We've probably all had a negative experience or two at the Apple Store. But it's pretty obvious that they demands placed on Apple Store employees are pretty high, and the standards (customer satisfaction, store cleanliness, etc.) are likewise high.

Furthermore they are always packed to the gills, sometimes dealing with angry customers. Apple retail are as much a part of Apple's brand quality as PR, marketing, etc.

I'm not saying that they should be compensated as well as the guys in Cupertino with PhDs in engineering. But if they work hard and their stores are successful, then yes, they should be able to make a career out of it and not be broke.

 

[charlituna]

Seriously Tim, stop listening/appeasing the media.

Who says he is. Tim Cook and company are no more likely to listen to the media about this than they are about what features simply "must" be in the new whatever.

 

[mnemonix]

Sure, it's hard to get a job these days. But if you have one, be grateful. A previous poster mentioned how he lived on minimum wage, something these guys aren't expected to do. People too often live too fast for their money. If people were smarter, their current wages would suffice. Having an 46 inch LED tv is not a priority. But even people on minimum wage are buying them. Even people claiming welfare.

This is a total straw man argument. We are not discussing what people do with their income, merely how much it is and the fact that people in retail earn a pitifully small amount, so now trying to demonize all working class people for supposedly owning widescreen tvs is irrelevant and insulting.

 

[Pyrrhic Victory]

Nothing. Except compassion, the desire to see society as a whole prosper rather than a few selfish individuals who got lucky, a sense of fairness maybe? The apparent lack of these basic human feelings in this thread, or labelling of them as 'defeatism', 'communism' etc saddens me beyond belief. I don't care if it's Apple or Walmart, we all deserve better than the race to the bottom determined by such a slavish adherence to the inhuman principles of this kind of capitalism.

The basic flaw in your argument is that you consider capitalism to be a zero sum game where one person's gain necessitates another person's loss. In fact, capitalism is predicated on the creation of value and the voluntary exchange of value between entities. Selfishness is a quality to be admired because one can be selfish without being destructive to others.

Apple is a business, whose purpose is to create profit for its stockholders. It is not the responsibility of Apple to make "society" prosperous; rather, it is the responsibility of each individual member of society strive toward their own prosperity by offering exchanges of value, not demanding value yet to be earned.

 

[mnemonix]

Nope, I want them to do these jobs. But if they feel try need more money, then they need to do something about it.

And while we're at it... do something about it? Do what exactly? Not everyone can be management, aside from the fact that we don't all have the aptitude for it, your capitalist paradise would collapse if that's all anyone did. You have to have people doing all the other jobs, that doesn't mean they deserve to be treated any worse than anyone else - or not so idealistically: with such a huge inequality between those at the top and those at the bottom, as someone else pointed out above me.

 

[currentinterest]

An essential part of American capitalism is workers organizing into unions. Without them workers would still be paid in company script and be working in horrible conditions. Perhaps, it is time for Apple retail employees to organize and if necessary strike. The recent wage increases are probably being implemented to make this less likely.

 

[straight-thunda]

.

 

[fitshaced]

And while we're at it... do something about it? Do what exactly? Not everyone can be management, aside from the fact that we don't all have the aptitude for it, your capitalist paradise would collapse if that's all anyone did. You have to have people doing all the other jobs, that doesn't mean they deserve to be treated any worse than anyone else - or not so idealistically: with such a huge inequality between those at the top and those at the bottom, as someone else pointed out above me.

But people are doing these jobs and are accepting their wages???? Who says they are beig treated badly? NY Times? For those who don't like it, they need to take their own situation into their hands and do something. Doesn't need to be management or even anythig connected with what they are currently doing. I don't look down on anyone earning less than me. I respect anyone who pays their way in life. But I lose respect for whingers who think they are owed something.

 

[mnemonix]

The basic flaw in your argument is that you consider capitalism to be a zero sum game where one person's gain necessitates another person's loss. In fact, capitalism is predicated on the creation of value and the voluntary exchange of value between entities. Selfishness is a quality to be admired because one can be selfish without being destructive to others.

The less you pay your retail employees the more 'value' a company 'creates' to benefit another sector of the organisation (such as the stock holders) to use your own terminology. Common sense and the evidence of the growing disparity between those at the top of society and those at the bottom entirely disputes your argument here.

 

[/V\acpower]

The basic flaw in your argument is that you consider capitalism to be a zero sum game where one person's gain necessitates another person's loss. In fact, capitalism is predicated on the creation of value and the voluntary exchange of value between entities. Selfishness is a quality to be admired because one can be selfish without being destructive to others.

Apple is a business, whose purpose is to create profit for its stockholders. It is not the responsibility of Apple to make "society" prosperous; rather, it is the responsibility of each individual member of society strive toward their own prosperity by offering exchanges of value, not demanding value yet to be earned.

Economy isn't a "zero sum game", but "creating value" is not what speculators and "shareholders" are doing. Basically its not WallStreet who is "creating value". "Creating value" that's what designers, engineers, workers, etc, are doing everyday.

Basically, if anyone deserve to get some money from Apple massive pile of money its their workers and really not the shareholders.

 

[ksgant]

Unionize!

The Eternal Brotherhood of Apple Workers!

The Appsters.

The United Apple Workers.

They need one of those tattooed, pierced lipped hipsters to jump up on one of them strong, earthquake-proof tables in the store and hold up a sign just saying "UNION" while slowly turning around. (Norma Rae reference...ask your parents).

 

[SeaFox]

I hired all female staff based on the theory that they sell better...They did, and my store was consistently top of the sales tables.

Uh, isn't that illegal?

 

[chipchen]

I worked for Apple a few years ago... first as a Mac Specialist and then as a Mac Genius. Here's a few thoughts:

(remember, this is a few years ago and in the Los Angeles area)

1. They pay higher than any other retailer (without having specific skills/knowledge). It wasn't uncommon for a full time salesperson to make over $20/hr + full benefits. I knew some Geniuses that made $30/hr. (granted they were with the company early on)

2. Benefits were GREAT. Of all the companies I've worked for... Apple took care of their employees here. 3 weeks vacation with 5 days sick pay and many holidays... and great medical and other benefits. (Apple also had things like adoption assistance as a benefit... because S.J. himself was adopted.)

3. ESPP. Employee Stock Purchase Plan. Let's just say that if you put the max 15% of your paycheck into this, with Apple's stock prices climbing these past few years, and the 15% discount off the bottom price within a 6 month range, this could have added thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars to their bottom line annually.

4. Discounts. I spent a lot of money back with Apple... and we had a lot of great deals... not just with Apple products, but many 3rd party companies offered deep discounts to Apple employees. Wasn't uncommon to receive 50% off 3rd party products.

5. COME ON GUYS, IT'S RETAIL! For most people, this is not a career, and NYT shouldn't be profiling Apple Retail as if these people were lifers here. Retail is a crazy business and as far as employers go Apple was great, and there is ALWAYS somewhere they can improve.

I quit because I was tired of the customer, and felt Apple didn't adequately staff the Genius Bars. (I was working ALONE at the bar at a MAJOR store during prime hours BEFORE the reservation system was in place... imagine 30 people raising their hands when I asked who was next) This has since been addressed.

 

[palmerc2]

All the apple store employees look happy to me. If they don't like it they can leave, there's hundreds of thousands of people who'd gladly take their place like I once would've wanted to. It's not like they need a Master's Degree to work there for crying out loud.

Somebody will always find something to complain about to compensate for their deficiencies, in this case anti-capitalism. Oye....

 

[Marrakas]

For a job any person without education could do, I'd say they earn good money, and the discounts don't hurt neither.