AppleTV: no longer a hobby

[Cougarcat]

If the ATV was just an A4 chip and some RAM, it could conceivably go lower than $99. (According to the iPad cost teardown the chip costs $26.80.) It would sell like crazy. (I wonder how much the Google box will--have they announced pricing yet?)

The thing is, for me to buy it, TV would have to be free. I don't mind hulu-sized commercials. Apple probably will never add Netflix or Hulu to AppleTV, but what if they offered their own streaming service, say commercial-free for $9.99 a month (the cost of the Hulu subscription service) or free, with iAds.

They'd have a hell of a time getting the networks to agree to that, though.

 

[mox358]

This needs to happen. I'm part of a market that in my mind Apple needs to acknowledge. People who have iPods or iPhones, Macs, and need a seamless way to stream content and apps onto their TV.

The current AppleTV just looks weak... it fits the bill, but barely. I helped my friend's dad setup his Apple TV a while back, and while it works and all it's still missing that "wow" factor. When I got my first iPod and held it in my hand it was a "wow" moment; first iPhone same thing. Thus far, the Apple TV does not produce these feelings. It feels merely adequate, which isn't quite up to par for Apple.

I agree 100% it's time to end the hobby and make this a full time gig. I think alot of consumers invested in the iTunes ecosystem will agree with me too.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

I agree under 42" 1080p is pointless. The only reason why needs to support 1080P, is to cover the large screens, they are more and more common. Also with more and more 1080P content, it has to happen. a few years ago who was doing 1080P content.

Cable/satellite is 720P/1080i, and will be for sometime, the bandwidth to do broadcast 1080P is just too great. but internet and blue ray are now suppling 1080P. VUDU is 1080P.

personally I have no need for 1080P, my largest TV is 37" and there is no room to put anything larger.

Nice to hear another voice of reason there

 

[munkees]

Nice to hear another voice of reason there

it also helps my buddy sells half million dollar home entertainment systems, he squares me away with the industry

 

[Mach1.8]

Nice to hear another voice of reason there

This point is valid: 1080p is pointless on smaller displays. But 1080p is also the defacto standard in today's home theater. Also, it is easy to achieve that level of performance with current hardware. As such, TV must support it to remain relevant in the current market. Not that it would make a difference on my 42 inch plasma...but on the 60 once LCD I'm getting this fall, it will make a difference.

The problem is, I don't think this is going to happen. The TV remains a conduit for iTunes to the TV. iTunes does not provide content at 1080p...nor will it in the foreseeable future. Apple is not going to release a hardware update that caters to those of us that rip our BRs, which would be pretty much the only way to get 1080p on the TV. While there are several enthusiasts out there that hope otherwise, until there is content available on iTunes at 1080p, don't expect to see a hardware update that supports it.

 

[munkees]

This point is valid: 1080p is pointless on smaller displays. But 1080p is also the defacto standard in today's home theater. Also, it is easy to achieve that level of performance with current hardware. As such, TV must support it to remain relevant in the current market. Not that it would make a difference on my 42 inch plasma...but on the 60 once LCD I'm getting this fall, it will make a difference.

The problem is, I don't think this is going to happen. The TV remains a conduit for iTunes to the TV. iTunes does not provide content at 1080p...nor will it in the foreseeable future. Apple is not going to release a hardware update that caters to those of us that rip our BRs, which would be pretty much the only way to get 1080p on the TV. While there are several enthusiasts out there that hope otherwise, until there is content available on iTunes at 1080p, don't expect to see a hardware update that supports it.

I think the iTunes content will move to 1080P the same time as a new TV comes out.

 

[MowingDevil]

I think the iTunes content will move to 1080P the same time as a new TV comes out.

Exactly, and until that day comes I'll refrain from purchasing an TV.

 

[rdowns]

The fact is, it's not going to happen. Content providers and cable TV companies aren't going to sit still for this. Why would they want to get behind something that would greatly reduce the number of cable subscribers and payments made from cable TV operators to cable TV content providers?

Hopefully things like Apple and Google TV force cable companies and content providers move into the digital age quicker. I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[kesnut]

How about this,
AppleTV A4 with 'some gpu', 1080p 160 or bigger hard drive "sync it still best" wireless N, 10/100/1000 wired and HDMI 1.4

I know I will be very happy with this. At the end if the day, yes streaming works, but I didn't buy avatar in the iTunes store because I wanted the best quality possable, iTunes tv shows I don't mind the drop, but for a movie that i really like, sorry it not there. Even it it means buying a dvd and riping it and adding it to itunes myself, (but i shouldnot have to do this step). Next Internet does not "always" work and even the home network is not always at it's best. But if the content is on the AppleTV you know it is going the play without an issue.

Everything else will be nice add-ons to pull in the others

 

[keeper]

I've just got my first sony bluray, its network connected, i can use BBC iplayer etc.

I have 2 ATV's one music one video, plus NAS for content which you can't stream to unless you have itunes running on something else, or buy a mac mini.
It seems a long process for Bluray rips.

I'll keep them both, but for films i'm just going to use bluray because Apple can't deliver a product. For the size of my library i'll store them rather than having all the boxes burning power and i get the best picture and sound quality currently available.

 

[Mach1.8]

I think the iTunes content will move to 1080P the same time as a new TV comes out.

I hope so. If they did I would consider buying movies from iTunes instead of BRs. But I don't share you optimism. 720p files are fairly large...1080p files are an order of magnitude larger. I'm not saying they are prohibitively large for streaming...but I think it presents a significant obstacle to be overcome before we see it on iTunes.

 

[Gotta Hankerin]

Hmmmm....

I have 3 TVs and stream HD content to all of them,at the same time, over a wifi N network, with no problem at all.

I think this is a very subjective issue. I find it hard to believe you're able to stream HD content to three ATV's at the same time over wireless N without significant wait times. Perhaps you do not consider these wait times problematic but surely you can see why they might hinder someone elses enjoyment. We're not accustomed to switching channels and having to wait 15-30 seconds for the content to show up on the screen.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

This point is valid: 1080p is pointless on smaller displays. But 1080p is also the defacto standard in today's home theater. Also, it is easy to achieve that level of performance with current hardware. As such, TV must support it to remain relevant in the current market. Not that it would make a difference on my 42 inch plasma...but on the 60 once LCD I'm getting this fall, it will make a difference.

The problem is, I don't think this is going to happen. The TV remains a conduit for iTunes to the TV. iTunes does not provide content at 1080p...nor will it in the foreseeable future. Apple is not going to release a hardware update that caters to those of us that rip our BRs, which would be pretty much the only way to get 1080p on the TV. While there are several enthusiasts out there that hope otherwise, until there is content available on iTunes at 1080p, don't expect to see a hardware update that supports it.

Well said....

Consumers today are driven by "numbers", not by facts. One day I hope to see the real difference between 720 and 1080 on a larger screen. In the end my everyday DVD's that I play on my up sampling DVD player looks good to me.

 

[ipedro]

Eliminating the middle man

One scenario I hadn't considered when I wrote the OP was that Apple could eliminate the middle man -- AppleTV -- altogether.

All those iPhones, iPod Touches and iPad's already in users hands have become an individual's personal entertainment device, as unique as the owner. What is missing is a link to the big screen, not an entirely new content box.

If Apple were to introduce a sort of AirTunes for both video and audio in iPhone OS4 and sell a small receiver that you could plug into the HDMI of any TV, this would enable the huge existing user base of iPhones, iPod touches and iPads to push the content of their devices to the big screen.

A scenario:
Mom, Dad, Timmy and Sally all have their own iPhones and iPod Touches with their personal tastes and personalities reflected in those libraries. There's also a family iMac and an iPad.

Timmy and Dad are sitting on the couch watching a TV show episode that Dad just purchased on his iPhone. When he pressed play on his iPhone, he selected "Living Room TV" as the output source.

Technical note: Because content is no longer stored on any given device, and instead in the Lala cloud -- now called iTunes Cloud -- the iPhone only sent the instructions to the small device plugged behind the TV which is now streaming it from the cloud. The iPhone isn't doing any heavy lifting.

Sally walks in and thinks that the star of the TV show is kinda cute so she pulls out her iPod Touch, opens the new TV app to see what's playing on the TV and brings up the credits of the TV show now playing. She finds the name of the actor, does a Wikipedia search and finds out he's from their town!

Sally: Look Dad, Trent Cutie is from Springfield!
Dad: I thought I recognized him. What other tv shows or movies has he been in?

On her iPod Touch, with Safari running, Sally brings up the new iPhonesOS 4.0 Screen Push feature and sends the feed from her iPod Touch to the living room TV for everybody to see what she's browsing.

Mom walks into the living room with the iPad and asks what everybody wants for dinner. She opens the Jamie Kennedy's 20 Minute Meals app and pushes her screen to the living room TV as they all review some options.

They choose Lemon Herb Chicken and mom leaves with Timmy to make dinner. Dad resumes the TV show on his iPhone and him and Sally finish watching Trent Cutie's show on the living room TV.

 

[rdowns]

Go Pedro! I love it. I think we're a ways away from that.

 

[Tilpots]

1080P? Obvious. Safari? Necessary. Apps? That would be excellent. Some of the other things mentioned? Sure, whatever...

Above all, the AppleTV needs a DVR and an OTA tuner. People watch TV on their TVs. If you can't get this part right, the box is useless for the masses. The DVR is not necessary for cable or satellite, it's for broadcast networks only. Pretty much every cable or satellite show can be downloaded thru the iTMS. Let people watch and record network television and you'll have a true cable/satellite competitor... and a piece of hardware worth buying.

 

[TwinCities Dan]

Some very interesting ideas here.

I love my TV and use it everyday but I am not the customer Apple is targeting. I use mine to stream from an external HD to my TV, never bought or rented any show or movie via the TV. Oh well, I still love it and am curious to see what is next...

 

[bigpatky]

the only "purchased" content i have from itunes are digital copies that come when i buy a new blu-ray. everything else i would want to play on an apple tv would be ripped. i don't see apple allowing me to upload my ripped movie library in this cloud scenario. i'd need access to unpurchased content for me to buy into it.

 

[ipedro]

the only "purchased" content i have from itunes are digital copies that come when i buy a new blu-ray. everything else i would want to play on an apple tv would be ripped. i don't see apple allowing me to upload my ripped movie library in this cloud scenario. i'd need access to unpurchased content for me to buy into it.

Tech geeks are in the minority. Steve Jobs knows that.

How many mom's and joe and jane schmo's do you know that know how to rip a DVD?

Besides, let's not forget that ripping a DVD for any use is illegal. Bit torrent? That's even further in the shadows. Sure, morally it's fine if you own a legal copy, but Apple's not going to cater to illegal ripping, specially when they have to please content owners.

Legal downloading and streaming will lead the way in shaping AppleTV. If you're left out, karma is responsible.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

I think what we really need is a hardware refresh. Upgrade to 1080p native and more onboard storage.

A lower-end approach is interesting -- very cheap, but, still support 1920x1080 @ 60fps -- and full HDMI 1.3, w/ full audio. A more interesting idea is full HDMI 1.4 and enough horsepower and bandwidth to support 2560x1440 @ 60 fps. Looking down the road a little - 4K is coming, but, consumer monitors are not here yet.

 

[bigpatky]

Tech geeks are in the minority. Steve Jobs knows that.

How many mom's and joe and jane schmo's do you know that know how to rip a DVD?

good point

Besides, let's not forget that ripping a DVD for any use is illegal.

i'm getting off subject but this has always bugged me. if i'm understanding it correctly, making a copy for your own use/backup IS legal under fair use laws, yet circumventing DRM, which all commercial dvds include, IS NOT legal. therefore, they've gotten rid of any fair use rights. it's such a joke.

 

[msavwah]

1080p is not that big a deal. Sure it's the best consumer standard, but 720p and 1080i are awesome. I have a 61" HDTV and it's all fine. I won't be losing any sleep over lack of 1080p.
I really think it is like the whole spec sheet vs user experience thing.
Now if you are rocking a 100" screen it would be a concern.
I disagree that anything under 70" topping out at 1080i would be a noticeable disappointment in the viewing experience unless you are doing side by side comparisons and looking for something to complain about.

It's nearly as ridiculous as saying that if it's not in 3d it sucks.

 

[northy124]

Besides, let's not forget that ripping a DVD for any use is illegal.

In the United States of America it is illegal, outside of the USA it is mostly fine

I wish people would remember that the US laws of ripping don't apply outside the US lol

 

[bigpatky]

1080p is not that big a deal.

but for some it is, even if it's just something to add to the spec sheet. the difference in the hardware is btw something that can only play low bitrate 720p and something that can play full 1080p is hardly anything in 2010. there are dozens of cheap media streamers on the market that play full 1080p. it is actually laughable that the apple tv CANNOT play it. it seems to me that apple would be the one making a big deal about it (outside of claiming it's just a "hobby") if they can't upgrade the apple tv to play full hd.

 

[msavwah]

Just to clarify, I'm saying this about the average family living room and not geeked out badass home theaters.
When Apple decides to make their push with the TV, it's gonna be into the living room. Not for the 150" home theaters.
The bandwidth issues and sizes on the average family screen are not in dire need of 1080p at this time. 1080p is a bit ahead of it's time for the masses.
Most people have just been going digital and into HD in the past few years, and still. Most people also have an average of 40-50" sets too.

Also on a light yet you know I'm serious note.

If Steve Jobs comes out and says " you don't need 1080p "
Then haha
He has said more outrageous things.

I won't complain either way, if the new appletv does 1080i or 1080p