Are early Mac OS versions based on UNIX?

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by bbarnhart, Mar 26, 2004.

  1. bbarnhart macrumors 6502a

    bbarnhart

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    #1
    My coworker told me today that early versions of the Mac OS (9, 8, 7, 6 and what ever was before that) were based on UNIX. I told him he was flat out wrong. I said that Mac OS X is based on UNIX but not the earlier versions. He was very insistent that they were. Again, I told him he was wrong and that I would ask everyone here and see, what, if anything the Mac OS was based on. He used to own a Mac Plus and a Mac IIsi.
     
  2. HexMonkey Administrator

    HexMonkey

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    #2
    You're right, it's not true. Here's some evidence from http://news.com.com/2100-1040_3-257982.html?tag=st_rn:

     
  3. Westside guy macrumors 601

    Westside guy

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    #3
    You're right; he's wrong.

    Actually I'd initially wrote a rather long response to your post; but these links do a better job of explaining - so I deleted all my verbiage and will just point here:

    http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4042&page=1

    http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3757
     
  4. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #4
    There was a desktop machine around the time of the Mac Plus that ran UNIX: the AT&T UNIX PC...a.k.a. 7300.

    The Macintosh operating system was definitely not derived from UNIX in whole or in part. Apple's A/UX was a UNIX dialect with a Macintosh desktop look. It was so large, it had to be delivered on an 80 MB hard drive. ;)
     
  5. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #5
    The original Mac OS was based on the Lisa computer, Apple's original desktop GUI.

    Except it was too much application for the hardware, ran like a pig, and cost $10,000.

    The Mac was cheap and rather fast, they took the Lisa's GUI toolbox (Quickdraw) and built a new OS around it designed for a 128K computer.

    But it also killed the LisaOS and put off a lot of the technology for years.
     
  6. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #6
    It is simply not true that MacOS X 10 is the first UNIX-based desktop computer to reach the mass market. As has been pointed out above, the AT&T UNIX PC and the NeXT computers were UNIX-based desktop computers. There was also the 68000-based IBM Scientific PC. There were also several other UNIX-based desktops from smaller and long-forgotten vendors. These were, however, not mass market machines. However there was one UNIX machine that was mass-market. That was the Radio Shack Xenix/TRS-DOS dual-boot/dual-processor TRS-80 Model 12. This big brother of the TRS-80 Model II was based on the Zilog Z-80 and the Motorola 68000. Back in the 1980 time frame, it was the largest selling UNIX-based computer in the world. It kept that title for several years.
     
  7. mrbrown macrumors 6502

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    #7
    Well, I noticed in the OSNews.com article, they said OS X was the first UNIX-based desktop operating system to be mass-marketed towards the general computer user. Just figured I'd point that out.
     
  8. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #8
    Which definitely points away from the TRS-80 Model 12, which was aimed at the small business owner who wanted to run business software.
     
  9. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #9
    What qualifies as the mass market today and what qualified as the mass market in 1980 are very different things. Back then, a substantial portion of computer users--if not a majority--wrote some of their own programs. Radio Shack promoted the TRS-80 Model 12 right along side the TRS-80 Model II. In fact, the Model 12 ran all of the Model II's software.
     
  10. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #10
    The even more important question is, "what is Unix?" BSD, on which OSX is based, is not strictly speaking, Unix. It is a Unix clone, in the same way that Linux is Unix-like but not Unix. Neither share code with AT&T's original Unix (though SCO is currently trying to prove in court that Linux does include some AT&T code, which they now own). MS-DOS is also essentially a Unix clone because it was based on CP/M, another Unix-like OS.

    So the classic MacOS was probably the least Unix-like of any popular PC operating system and OSX is probably the most Unix-like. But none of them are actually Unix.
     
  11. FattyMembrane macrumors 6502a

    FattyMembrane

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    #11
    ask your coworker to find a command prompt on mac os 9. ;)
    that should make him quiet.
     
  12. abhishekit macrumors 65816

    abhishekit

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    #12
    holy cow!!! where did u get that avatar from??/
     
  13. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #13
    CP/M and MS-DOS were only UNIX-like at the command line. The internals were extremely different.
     
  14. crenz macrumors 6502a

    crenz

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    #14
    He mentioned the source in a thread. Search the forums. Hint: It's got to do with a cropped version of his "location". :p
     
  15. iJed macrumors 6502

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    #15
    Mac OS X was the first "standard" Mac OS version to be UNIX like. However during the 68K days Apple produced their own unix distro called AUX. AUX allowed System 7 applications to run along side a standard unix shell rather like Mac OS X does today. It also had the easiest installation process of any unix distro at the time.
     
  16. Pandakin macrumors newbie

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    Mar 21, 2004
    #16
    Actually there was a kind of command line prompt in os 9

    remember when apps were behaving wierd in mac os 9 and u wanted to get back to the finder you could press a couple of action keys and u would get a little white box that had a prompt and u could type in something like g finder. I always wondered what that was and i thought i that was a similar command line prompt in os 9. Can anyone shed any light onto that and what that feature could do. i believe that allowed you to freeze the system, if i remember correctly. Also does anyone know what the debug mode was in os 9. thanks :)
     
  17. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #17
    Yes he'll be able to find the large pics, and grab a few more pics.
     

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  18. iJed macrumors 6502

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    #18

    This was the system interupt mode. Pressing the programmers switch on some Mac models allowed entrance into this mode. For Macs lacking this switch you could press command-power (I think).

    Anyway, this box is not anything like a command line. It existed exclusively for debugging purposes. You could even edit memory directly. Try typing something like this: sm 0 a9f4 and then g 0. What this does is inserts the trap address for the toolbox call ExitToShell() into memory location 0 and then g 0 starts executing code at this location and hence quitting your application. sm = set memory, g = go.

    You could also install a debugger (such as MacsBug) for easier and more powerful debugging.
     
  19. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #19
    Installing MacsBug in the System Folder allowed you to press the programmer key and key commands like es--exit to shell.
     

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  20. iRobert macrumors newbie

    iRobert

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    #20
    Actually, there IS one MacOS version based on UNIX (i mean in the classic range) called A/UX (Apple UNIX) was designed for running at Apple's workgroup servers (wonderful machines bdw).

    It gave the user a standard System 7 interface, but with the unix kernel underneath.
     
  21. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #21
    You are confusing generations of computers. A/UX ran on Macintosh II-generation computers in the early 90's. The computers supporting the Workgroup Servers was AIX, IBM's UNIX variant. The AIX-based Workgroup servers did not run the MacOS. Think of it this way: Before AIM agreement, A/UX; after AIM agreement, AIX.
     
  22. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #22
    MS-DOS was based on CP/M rip-off Q-DOS. The only thing that CP/M and UNIX had in common is that they were CLI-based operating systems. CP/M was modeled after RT-11, an OS for the DEC PDP-8 minicomputer.
     
  23. iRobert macrumors newbie

    iRobert

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    #23
    Indeed :eek: my bad :D
     
  24. visor macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Well, MSDos was hardly unix like even at the shell (which was all Msdos ever had).
     

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