Are you a liberal?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by FFTT, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #1
    When someone makes a statement opposing a deeply corrupt political system,
    that does not make them a "liberal". I would argue strongly that they are the True Patriots
    who care about what is happening to our great nation.

    In my view, anyone who allows a deeply corrupt political system to continue
    is indeed quite "liberal" with their own freedom.
     
  2. MattG macrumors 68040

    MattG

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    #2
    Well put. I can't stand how anyone without their blinders on is automatically labeled a "liberal" just for realizing how messed up our government is.
     
  3. D0ct0rteeth macrumors 65816

    D0ct0rteeth

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    #3
    hahaha.. I can't wait to see this thread explode into another huge disaster :)

    ............

    As for my political views, I tend to be atypical and niether democratic or republican. I am a cynical free thinking artistic guy which basically asssures that I will rethink everything I am told.

    1 - I believe that the "Free Heathcare debate" is totally insane. Your healthcare is your responsibility, but like education it is our responsibility to ensure the safety and future of our children. If your a 40yr old 300lb smoker.. well, go ahead and die my friend - but I have no problem paying my 12.5 cents for your 13 year old kid's kidney transplant.

    2 - Some people are evil. Plain and Simple. Regardless of your Religion or your nationality I have no doubt that by and large most people are human and have good intentions, but the freaks who are driving exploding cars into groups of children need to be destroyed. The solution is that we need to stop having Old American White Guys be the voice of the solution, and start having Moderate Educated Arabs get serious about stopping it themselves. I am proud to be an American and I'll do anything I can to defeat those who are truly insane and need to be stopped - but we need to have the Iraqis screaming that "By Allah - We have had enough of this. Stop killing my kids!" and start stopping the terrorists themselves. Teach a man to fish...

    3 - The Environment and the Economy are not mutually exclusive. Good companies with solid leadership can and will make money despite what the government regulates. If we got serious and set a goal for a serious energy plan and abandoned foreign oil by 2020 we could do it. No question about it. Exxon and BP would be investing in solar power and biodeisel faster than you can say "Inflated Gas Prices".

    I can elaborate more, but thats the main idea. I am liberal, but I would vote for McCain before Hillary - that stuffed shirt can kiss my ass. (Can you call a woman a stufffed shirt?)
     
  4. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #4
    having a national healthcare plan isn't the same as free healthcare. it's more an effort to provide affordable healthcare to those currently uninsured, while providing an insurance safety net when people are between jobs, an employer drops coverage, et. al.

    also, the self-employed get screwed on premiums. i'm paying $400/mo., but when i was last employed, it was costing the company about 1/3 that to insure me. and, no, i don't have better coverage now.
     
  5. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #5
    Let's see,

    Kind of makes you wonder why anyone would be proud to call themself a conservative.
     
  6. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #6
    Strangely I don't see either Socialist or Communist included in that definition...
     
  7. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #7
    I'm generally against:
    lovers of war
    lovers of wealth
    totalitarianism regimes
    racism
    gouging medical/pharmaceutical industry
    the invasion of privacy with telemarketing schemes.

    I've voted for candidates on both sides of the ticket;
    Basically pro choice with some stipulations attached, and I despise all cats with the exception of tigers. I really don't know where that lands, but it's dynamic, not static.
    X
     
  8. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #8
    Because Liberals are bad... for some reason.

    Of course, everyone to the right of me is a war-mongering, gun toting, Bible-thumping nutcase. But everyone to the left of me is a tree-hugging, pot-smoking, whiny hippie. You really can't win.
     
  9. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #9
    Because that's only half the story: Liberals favor moral freedom, but not economic.
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    That's strange: the French are moaning precisely because the "Anglo-Saxon neo-liberal" economic model is too "free".
     
  11. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #11
    Well, there's a clear difference between Dems and Repubs on taxes...
    Maybe the French think both are too free, but that doesn't eliminate the difference.
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    There's a clear difference in the rhetoric, but is there in practice?
     
  13. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #13
    There are differences, subject to still being able to get 51% of the vote...
     
  14. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Why is that strange? In the UK liberalism (in the political sense) isn't connected to socialism or communism in any way.

    Having said that, since "new" Labour policies have moved increasingly towards the centre (some would say the right), some of the current Lib-Dem policies could easily be mistaken for those from an "old" Labour election manifesto 20-30 years ago.
     
  15. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

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    #15
    I took a survey once -- I think it was on a thread here, but I can't find it now -- and it said I was an economic moderate but a social libertarian. That sounds about right to me. The main point is that political ideas are too complex to be categorized along just the "conservative-liberal" dichotomy.

    On the healthcare thing, I'd lean towards government healthcare. I imagine it will become a bureacratic nightmare, but it can't be much worse than the nightmare we're already facing with our bizarre mix of private/government/charity healthcare.
     
  16. FFTT thread starter macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #16
    Many of our social problems could be reduced if those making the most would have to pay their fair share in taxes.

    We do need some alteratives for a health care plan to cover those on fixed incomes and those with catastrophic and long term illnesses.
    In todays world, one major illness can wipe out everything you've worked for.

    We should also not be forced to mortgage our homes or sell our property
    to afford a college education for our children.
    A high school education may have been sufficient 100 years ago, but now
    it's virtually mandatory to have at least a 4 year degree.
    Most of the civilized world provides a college education at a reasonable cost, but here the average student graduates with $40,000-$80,000 in debt.


    Our hard earned tax dollars are being squandered away to benefit those
    who never pay their fair share while the working class suffers.

    Something has to change.

    I welcome solutions to these major issues from both sides of the fence.
     
  17. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #17
    They do? Where does it say that in the definition?
     
  18. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #18
    You're obviously not looking in the right dictionary.
     
  19. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #19
    I know, it's the Talk Radio edition, which is the only one most people seem to use anymore. Have they published that one in your country, or do you still rely on that boring old one compiled by a bunch of dead Englishmen?
     
  20. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #20
    or the Right's Dictionary.
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    I'm still using the Old European one.
     
  22. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #22
    If you take your eyes off the dictionary, and look at reality, you will see that they do.
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    You'll have to do better than that.
     
  24. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #24
    Funny, you'd think economic freedom wouldn't involve the Chinese holding huge amounts of our swelling national debt...

    That ain't my idea of economic freedom.

    Besides, Karl Rove is pretty free with his morality wouldn't you say? ;)
     
  25. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #25
    There is nothing better. Reality is the ultimate standard, the ultimate proof.
     

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