Are YOU going to buy an new Powermac?

[ibookin']

I am going to buy a new tower (time to ditch the peecee), but I can't decide when to buy it. September? January? I'll probably wait till January, though. No matter when I buy it, I don't think my Mom will be too happy with me dropping $2500 on a computer, especially since she bought me an iBook a year ago.

Oh, well. I'll tell her I need it for the website I do for our temple (Jewish).

 

[gopher]

There usually is a good low end Powermac for about $1600. At least that's been Apple's price point. And who knows, sometime this fall the 17" Flat Panel iMac price might fall.

 

[JABevan]

Xserve

Will not be buying a new PowerMac, but highly possible we'll be picking up an Xserve (hoping it will also get a bit of a processor boost).

 

[topicolo]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Typically full on lightening strikes are covered on your home owners policy (as well as on most good rental policies). An UPS that is well designed will fry itself long before dangerous voltage gets through (which is how they are designed). Since the house I live in is not the tallest structure in the neighborhood, I don't worry about it getting hit by lightening.

In my ~32 years, we have only had lightening come close to a house we have owned once. THAT was in Florida, where it was going after the sailboat mast across the canal from us.

The UPS units that you use at home provide tons of protection for power spikes, drops and such. Normal household power has many spikes and dips in it not during storms either. It's almost impossible to get a steady/stable power delivery inside the US.

Speaking of lightning, I was almost struck by a bolt 2 years ago.
Somehow I doubt that my house insurance would've covered that

 

[madamimadam]

All I know is that I do NOT NEED a new machine since my 533 is still powering along beautifully to my needs so I am sure I can wait until the G5 comes out. When the G5 comes out and I get one it will be because I WANT one so that I do not have to let my 3D designs render overnight.

I design in 3D for myself which means I like them to be my desktop pattern at 1280 x 1024 but I sometimes print them out so I render at 300 DPI. Doing this in Bryce can be a REAL bitch but I really don't see that crying because some superfast machine is not here yet is the answer. Everyone in the industry is having the same problem and we just need to wait for the pooters to catch up to our imagination.

They say that technology moves so fast these days but it is only trying to keep up with something FAR more powerful and imaginatory..... the human mind.

 

[TheCat]

i'm buying one after the end of august, i'll wait a couple more weeks b4 replacing my ageing 6500 (payday!!!)
But i can't believe 75 (at the time of writing this) people are going to wait 6months... these people are the sort that wait and wait and wait. Whenever & whatever u buy, will always be older and slower than something else release 6months later. That's life!

I can't wait for the Mac apple release soon that'll replace the current G4DP

Steve

 

[mmmdreg]

I'm waiting on the 1Ghz iMac...MWSF maybe?

 

[TheCat]

i was thinking about the iMac too, esp with that lovely new 17" display.. but i'm also thinking about the near future too.. And if a modern PMacG4 with GF4Ti is the best spec for newer games like Doom 3 today, then.........
Anyway, there's a massive price difference and other (more important s/w?!) to consider also

I'd love a 1GHZ iMac though, 800mhz seems a little naff today.

Steve

 

[mdurg]

But i can't believe 75 (at the time of writing this) people are going to wait 6months... these


Had I never started reading this board I would have bought 2 months ago. Reading these forums generates a lot of false hope and things that never materialize. As far as waiting any longer goes, there is almost no doubt that new machines are on the way fairly soon. It would be a heartbreaker to buy a DP now only in a month have the latest and greatest available.

 

[topicolo]

I can't believe that there are so few apple haters because of their new .mac policy. only 5 people? that's pretty impressive, especially after reading all the vitriol on these boards.

 

[gopher]

Originally posted by topicolo
I can't believe that there are so few apple haters because of their new .mac policy. only 5 people? that's pretty impressive, especially after reading all the vitriol on these boards.

If .Mac was the last service out there that was once free going to be more expensive, I think more people would be mad. But there are lots of alternatives. The worst thing is having to let everyone you know that you are moving to a new service provider. But after all, who in here hasn't switched ISPs at least twice! I've switched 24 times!

 

[-hh]

Originally posted by mdurg
But i can't believe 75 (at the time of writing this) people are going to wait 6months... these

Well, since I did say "6" in the poll, I'll respond with an explanation.

First, I'm running off of an old 8600 w/G4 card. I'm waaay overdue.

The problem I have is that if I'm going to drop $2-3K for a spankin' new system, I want it to be a freaking Spankin' New System. Its not the money, its the value.

To be explicit, if the "any day now" machines are little more than yet another small Speed Bump, I don't see them as a good value (unless Stevo cuts prices in half), so I ain't buying.


Insofar as the rumors for the G5, I personally suspect that it stands a decent chance to be out by Christmas 2003. Time will tell. If my tower up and dies, I'll buy something used for $400, or lease a machine, and stretch my lifecycle out that way.


-hh

 

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by mdurg
But i can't believe 75 (at the time of writing this) people are going to wait 6months... these

Had I never started reading this board I would have bought 2 months ago. Reading these forums generates a lot of false hope and things that never materialize. As far as waiting any longer goes, there is almost no doubt that new machines are on the way fairly soon. It would be a heartbreaker to buy a DP now only in a month have the latest and greatest available.

Hey Stimpy... maybe you didn't pick up on the fact that this is a RUMOR site. Unless you hear something direct from Apple about a new system coming out, don't believe it.

BTW, we were going by what Apple has typically done in the past with system updates. Last year at MWNY, they released new G4's... Why should this year be any different??? Well, it was... deal with it.

 

[gopher]

Originally posted by -hh



Well, since I did say "6" in the poll, I'll respond with an explanation.

First, I'm running off of an old 8600 w/G4 card. I'm waaay overdue.

The problem I have is that if I'm going to drop $2-3K for a spankin' new system, I want it to be a freaking Spankin' New System. Its not the money, its the value.

To be explicit, if the "any day now" machines are little more than yet another small Speed Bump, I don't see them as a good value (unless Stevo cuts prices in half), so I ain't buying.


Insofar as the rumors for the G5, I personally suspect that it stands a decent chance to be out by Christmas 2003. Time will tell. If my tower up and dies, I'll buy something used for $400, or lease a machine, and stretch my lifecycle out that way.


-hh

Not a good value? I think we have another person who has been brainwashed by the myth PCs are better values than Macs.

Macs have things you don't get with PCs. Built-in bootable Firewire. Built-in 10/100 on consumer line and 1 Gigabit ethernet on PowerMacs. Built in support for digital displays with colormatching on all machines with an optional VGA display if you want it. Oh and the best customer support as rated by none other than Consumer Reports. Machines that more often than not last 3 to 5 times longer than your comparably priced PCs.
If you spent $500 on a machine and had to replace 3 times in 6 years with another $500 machine, and instead spent $1500 on a Mac and it lasted you 6 years, wouldn't the Mac be the better value? Support, ease of use, and a userbase that is more helpful than any PC userbase. You have tons of support bulletin boards, and because they are all Macs, the issues you will have are more likely than not affecting all users and not just you. And so most of those issues will have been worked out by at least one person. I might add, if you have good credit, you can buy that Mac for 3 months same as cash.

Macs are an excellent value...just shop around and if you don't know where to find a good price check my link below.

 

[job]

Originally posted by King Cobra
vitruvius, I'm using my 233MHz iMac and you are spamming.

I'll probably wait for a couple of months before buying a new tower.

Btw Cobra, did you get that smilie from me? I seem to remember posting the exact same one in a thread a long time ago.

 

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by gopher
If .Mac was the last service out there that was once free going to be more expensive, I think more people would be mad. But there are lots of alternatives. The worst thing is having to let everyone you know that you are moving to a new service provider. But after all, who in here hasn't switched ISPs at least twice! I've switched 24 times!

I've switched but one time... From the free aohell that came with my first Mac purchase (a PowerComputing clone of all things) to Earthlink. I did the switch in the first week, since I couldn't connect after the first evening. I was using it during non-peak times (busy signals at ~2am eastern time to a local number). After the second or third evening of this, I gave aohell the iron boot and switched. There have been a few bumps in the road, over the past few years (signed on in 1997), but nothing extreme enough to get me to switch to another ISP. I looked into what was offered several months back (when my DSL speed went through the floor) and no one in my area could offer anything close to the same speed, for the same money. To get the speed I have now, it would have cost more.

I am still deciding about the .mac account... do I want to keep it or not... The 100MB of space is attractive, but I really don't need much else... I will decide one way or the other before the deadline of September 30th.

 

[-hh]

Originally posted by gopher


Not a good value? I think we have another person who has been brainwashed by the myth PCs are better values than Macs.

Its not a myth AFAIC, but that topic is not germain to what I was talking about.

Macs have things you don't get with PCs. Built-in bootable Firewire.

I've had Firewire on my home machine for ~2 years now. Number of peripherals hooked up to it: ZERO. Whoop-ti-doo. But I do like FW. My non-adoption is mostly because I'm still backwards-compatible to my existing SCSI peripherals.

I've had bootable SCSI capability on my Mac's for over 15 years, so the concept of non-bootable FW is a step backwards as far as I'm concerned: having bootable FW merely makes it *equal* to SCSI in my book, not some drastic new feature.

So how should I interpret your claims of it as a supposed "feature"? Hey everyone, my new car has windows that actually go up and down!

Built-in 10/100 on consumer line and 1 Gigabit ethernet on PowerMacs.

Only relevant if you need it. I don't even have 10bT hooked up on my Mac at home. I do have 10bT on the PC at work, and its bandwidth is fine for what I typically need. 100bT and GBE is moderate to extreme overkill.

FWIW, I do admit that I'd break down & install a CAT 5 network at home if I were to go with a broadband ISP. But going here will only make me bitch and moan about the rediculous prices for a Static IP address.

...color calibration...

Yes, there's some neat stuff for the Pro's. But that's not my application.

My biggest problem I have is making webpage images that are still good-looking on generic Windows PC's that lack any color calibration. The easiest thing for me to do is to just doublecheck my work on my thusly equipped PC at work, before telling Mom "look here".

If you spent $500 on a machine and had to replace 3 times in 6 years with another $500 machine, and instead spent $1500 on a Mac and it lasted you 6 years, wouldn't the Mac be the better value?

It actually depends on the residual utility of the old machines.

But normally, I do just what you suggest. In fact, my current Mac is literally 6 years old (although it did cost more than $1500, particularly with the incremental ugprades its received).

My point is that Apple has not been making good, steady gains in performance, and because of that, "right now" is NOT a good time to buy a machine for the next 6 years because Apple's so far behind where they should be.

So the question really becomes: "When will be a good time?"

Short answer is whenever Apple has something that can count as a modest breakthrough. It doesn't have to be a G5, but it does need to be a lot more than a lame speed bump.

So it depends on what Apple delivers this month. A lame speed bump means that I'' strategically "invest short" and wait for a gain in performance that's IMO really worth paying for.

Overall, if I "had to buy" a new machine today, I'd get a 17" iMac. The current PowerMac's are poor values by comparison (for MY needs), and a speedbump won't appreciably change that.

But the better option for me right now seems to be to wait. My traditional upgrade cycle has been to replace my Mac when the new model has ~4x the performance of the old. Expressing that very simplistically, it means that I'm waiting for at least a 1.6GHz G4+ with at least a 200MHz bus.


-hh

 

[topicolo]

Originally posted by gopher


Not a good value? I think we have another person who has been brainwashed by the myth PCs are better values than Macs.

Macs have things you don't get with PCs. Built-in bootable Firewire. Built-in 10/100 on consumer line and 1 Gigabit ethernet on PowerMacs. Built in support for digital displays with colormatching on all machines with an optional VGA display if you want it. Oh and the best customer support as rated by none other than Consumer Reports. Machines that more often than not last 3 to 5 times longer than your comparably priced PCs.
If you spent $500 on a machine and had to replace 3 times in 6 years with another $500 machine, and instead spent $1500 on a Mac and it lasted you 6 years, wouldn't the Mac be the better value? Support, ease of use, and a userbase that is more helpful than any PC userbase. You have tons of support bulletin boards, and because they are all Macs, the issues you will have are more likely than not affecting all users and not just you. And so most of those issues will have been worked out by at least one person. I might add, if you have good credit, you can buy that Mac for 3 months same as cash.

Macs are an excellent value...just shop around and if you don't know where to find a good price check my link below.

If you put it that way, the PC actually sounds better. Think about it this way:
3 pcs in 6 years is 1 pc every 2 years right?
Ok, lets say you have $1500 but instead of buying a mac you spend the $500 for your first pc.
This leaves you with $1000 in cash that you can leave in a bond that earns you say, 7%.
After 2 years, you have $1144.90 (1000*1.07^2) and you spend another $500 for your second pc, leaving you with $644.90.
After 2 more years, you have $738.35 and you spend the last $500 for your third pc and you finally end up with $238.35 left. Enough for half of your fourth pc!
Sure, you may have to waste time installing all of your software every 2 years, but you're also getting a speed upgrade with each new pc. (BTW, if you invested that money in the stock market instead of in bonds, you would have $402.02 left in the end at the historical stock market return of 11%).

Just my $0.02

 

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by -hh
Its not a myth AFAIC, but that topic is not germain to what I was talking about.

I've had Firewire on my home machine for ~2 years now. Number of peripherals hooked up to it: ZERO. Whoop-ti-doo. But I do like FW. My non-adoption is mostly because I'm still backwards-compatible to my existing SCSI peripherals.

I guess you haven't heard of the FireWire/SCSI adapters that are out there.

I've had bootable SCSI capability on my Mac's for over 15 years, so the concept of non-bootable FW is a step backwards as far as I'm concerned: having bootable FW merely makes it *equal* to SCSI in my book, not some drastic new feature.

Booting from a FireWire hard drive is a LOT better then trying to boot from a SCSI one. I have an OS (9.2.2) on a FireWire drive since we need to use that to install the new corporate OS X image that is coming. With a FireWire drive, we can install OS X on about 75% of the systems that will be getting it. The rest of them have USB, so I am working on getting a drive with both on it before we have to install OS X across the board.

So how should I interpret your claims of it as a supposed "feature"? Hey everyone, my new car has windows that actually go up and down!

Only relevant if you need it. I don't even have 10bT hooked up on my Mac at home. I do have 10bT on the PC at work, and its bandwidth is fine for what I typically need. 100bT and GBE is moderate to extreme overkill.

So, you are saying, just because where you work are cheap prîcks, and have not upgraded/updated to 100Mbps ethernet you don't need it??? What drugs are you on??? We have 100Mbps (autosense) networking here at work, and I wouldn't even want to think about going down to 10Mbps. Try to download a file larger then 100MB and you can go to lunch before it finishes. Do that with 100Mb networking and it's done in moments...

FWIW, I do admit that I'd break down & install a CAT 5 network at home if I were to go with a broadband ISP. But going here will only make me bitch and moan about the rediculous prices for a Static IP address.

Why do you think you need a static IP address??? Do you have one now with dial-up? I know that Earthlink offers a static IP for a few dollars extra a month... If you bytch about something that small, you will bytch about anything.

Installing a Cat5 network is not as difficult as you think. If the computers are in the same room, all you need is some patch cables and an ethernet switch (do NOT get a hub). If the computers are in different rooms/floors, then just get an electritian in to run the wire for you (and put drop plates on the walls you want). Get them to use either Cat5e or Cat 6 cable, and you will be all set.

I have DSL at home, with a network switch (for the game pc and printer) and an Airport Base station. With the Airport card inside my TiBook, I can go anywhere I want in the apartment, and even most of the yard outside. I will probably do that when it starts to cool down some, so that I can sit in the yard (or the front porch) and be online.

Yes, there's some neat stuff for the Pro's. But that's not my application.

That's what everyone thinks, until they actually start to use the stuff. Like my mother and the internet... She never thought she would need the high speed, until we ran a cat5 line up to her apartment and installed a router on my sister's internet connection. Now she gets free high speed internet...

My biggest problem I have is making webpage images that are still good-looking on generic Windows PC's that lack any color calibration. The easiest thing for me to do is to just doublecheck my work on my thusly equipped PC at work, before telling Mom "look here".

I think you have bigger problems then that... of the psychological nature.

It actually depends on the residual utility of the old machines.

But normally, I do just what you suggest. In fact, my current Mac is literally 6 years old (although it did cost more than $1500, particularly with the incremental ugprades its received).

My point is that Apple has not been making good, steady gains in performance, and because of that, "right now" is NOT a good time to buy a machine for the next 6 years because Apple's so far behind where they should be.

So the question really becomes: "When will be a good time?"

Short answer is whenever Apple has something that can count as a modest breakthrough. It doesn't have to be a G5, but it does need to be a lot more than a lame speed bump.

So it depends on what Apple delivers this month. A lame speed bump means that I'' strategically "invest short" and wait for a gain in performance that's IMO really worth paying for.

Overall, if I "had to buy" a new machine today, I'd get a 17" iMac. The current PowerMac's are poor values by comparison (for MY needs), and a speedbump won't appreciably change that.

But the better option for me right now seems to be to wait. My traditional upgrade cycle has been to replace my Mac when the new model has ~4x the performance of the old. Expressing that very simplistically, it means that I'm waiting for at least a 1.6GHz G4+ with at least a 200MHz bus.

BTW, if you try to purchase an external SCSI cd-burner expect to drop more then a few dollars. That is, if you can even find one in stock someplace. For some time now, the ONLY burners I have seen are either USB or FireWire.

 

[-hh]

Originally posted by gopher


If .Mac was the last service out there that was once free going to be more expensive, I think more people would be mad.

IMO, Apple would be smart to bundle a Free year's subscription with any new CPU purchase.

But there are lots of alternatives. The worst thing is having to let everyone you know that you are moving to a new service provider.

And the best thing is all of the Spam that you leave behind.

But after all, who in here hasn't switched ISPs at least twice! I've switched 24 times!

24 times? Incredible. Over what time period?

FWIW, I've had only 2 ISP's over the past 19 years. The first was "The Source", which was bought out by GE and became GEnie. Replaced that in 1996 with a small local company who's since been bought out (but the new owner keeps the old IP name going).

FWIW, if you really want a "forever" email address, spend $200/year and buy yourself a domain & rent a host to put it on.


-hh

 

[-hh]

Originally posted by AlphaTech

I guess you haven't heard of the FireWire/SCSI adapters that are out there.

Sure I have, and that's the route I'd go if I were to buy a 17" iMac. But so long as I'm on a system that supports SCSI without having to go through Firewire, why should I add unnecessary complexity?

Booting from a FireWire hard drive is a LOT better then trying to boot from a SCSI one.

I've not ever had a problem with SCSI. But then again, the last machine that I had that I chose to set it up with an external boot disk was literally a Mac Plus. Management did away with the Mac's here at work ~5 years ago, so the days of when I'd have to set up disk images for multiple new machine installs is long gone.

So, you are saying, just because where you work are cheap prîcks, and have not upgraded/updated to 100Mbps ethernet you don't need it??? What drugs are you on???

Coffee. Its what's consumed in non-graphics-oriented offices.

Our network is respectable. We have GB fiber above the concentrator, and we're ready for pushing 100bT down to the desktop, but we don't have the compelling need to do so for 98% of our PC's (mine included), because the biggest bandwidth consumer we have is to email around Powerpoint attachments over Microsoft Outlook.

There's also more than one way to skin a cat. The IS guys run unsplit asynchronous snaps down to each PC, etc, with the end result that I have ~1MByte/sec sustained transfer rates up & down. Since 95% of our files is usually under 5MB, the typical dwell time is usually just a few seconds, not "lunchtimes". As I said, we really don't need that much bandwidth on the desktop yet. Your Business may vary.

Why do you think you need a static IP address???

Because if I'm going to tinker around with broadband at home, I'm going to try setting up a web/news server to tinker with.

I know that Earthlink offers a static IP for a few dollars extra a month... If you bytch about something that small, you will bytch about anything.

Yes, I am a cheap bastard. Or to be politcally correct, call me "Strongly Value Focused"

I price out my local broadband options around 2x/year and its typically ~$59/month to go with the small business who's being held hostage & screwed by the local TelCo. So long as I can surf at work, the incentive for me to pay my home ISP more money just isn't that strong.

Installing a Cat5 network is not as difficult as you think.

I didn't think I suggested that it was "difficult" (IMO, wiring of all types is a piece of cake). I simply have a billion other hobbies that are higher priority.

That's what everyone thinks, until they actually start to use the stuff.

I've had a high bandwidth connection at work since before Mozilla v1.0 You think I'm at home right now at 56K?

BTW, if you try to purchase an external SCSI cd-burner expect to drop more then a few dollars. That is, if you can even find one in stock someplace. For some time now, the ONLY burners I have seen are either USB or FireWire.

I already have two external SCSI burners. If I were to buy a new external CD-R, I'd skip SCIS and look to buy a FW interface. But neither of the SCSI's I have right now are on their "last legs", so the only downside of using them is that it takes a few minutes longer to burn a CD. Perhaps if I were Napstering hundreds of MP3's, I'd care about such things.


My point is that we're all different types of users, and what's important to some isn't going to be important to all. Personally, I'd like to have a PowerMac because of its expansion capabilities, and because it has better horsepower, but I also recognize that I don't really have the personal need to rationally justify the top of the line products. The money I'm saving today will buy me a week of Scuba diving in the Galapagos later this year

I've also done stratetic organizational IS planning for the group I work for, and I've seen the kind of BS that gets pushed by the "techhies" who don't have a clue about what our business is, how we counduct it, hot it has evolved and how we should conduct it because of where its probably going.



-hh