Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

osofast240sx

macrumors 68030
Mar 25, 2011
2,539
16
T-Mobile wins for family plan pricing, for sure, except that applies to post-paid only. The huge exception for T-Mobile would be the massive holes in usable data coverage. That's the only reason I haven't switched to T-Mobile.

There's a huge population that doesn't live in densely populated metro areas, which is T-Mobile's primary focus. Sad.
When is the last time u used T-Mobile ? I travel a lot no problems. Plus T-Mobile has s 7 year roaming agreement with AT&T so your covered.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
Maybe because the US needs a gazillion more cell towers to provide coverage? :confused:

Size of Taiwan = 13,972 sq miles
Size of US = 3,794,000 sq miles

But then the US has a few more inhabitants than Taiwan to spread the cost of cell towers over. Are people really so sloppy in their thinking or do they just flat out manipulate (ie, lie) to make their argument stronger?

What counts is area per inhabitant (technically cell phone user but the ratio between inhabitant and cell phone user is not too different). Are if you want to be even more precise: area * no. of providers / cell phone users (ie, if you have four nationwide networks, you need twice as many towers compared to having only two nationwide networks). Or even more precise: area covered with 2G/3G per provider over no. of customers per provider. Or even more precise area covered by 2G/3G with towers that are not saturated per provider over number of customers living in those areas (covering the inhabitants of metropolitan areas will cost roughly the same, only the coverage of the rural areas is a function of population density).

USA: 34.2 inhabitants/km^2 or 29.2*10^-3 km^2 per inhabitant
Taiwan: 643 inhabitants/km^2 or 1.56*10^-3km^2 per inhabitant

So, instead of your see-how-stupid-your-are ratio of 270x, it drops down to a still big 19x.
 

RedGeminiPA

macrumors member
May 17, 2009
61
0
Altoona, PA
When is the last time u used T-Mobile ? I travel a lot no problems. Plus T-Mobile has s 7 year roaming agreement with AT&T so your covered.

How's this?

I live in the largest city between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg (about 4 hours drive from one to the other across PA). T-Mobile STILL only has EDGE coverage here. If I want to come close to their 3G/4G, I have to travel at least 40 miles, most of which is roaming on AT&T to get there.

Yes, I tried T-Mobile for a month.

When's the last time you looked at their coverage map?
 

cmwade77

macrumors 65816
Nov 18, 2008
1,071
1,200
WHY does the prepaid have a "soft cap" that just throttles after 2GB but LOYAL post paid subscribers get a "hard cap" that charges more money. Once again ATT is screwing over their customers. JUST DIE ATT!!!
Because they think that they are trying to compete with T-Mobile's new plans here.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
The median household income in Taiwan is $12,000 USD while in the US it is closer to about $50,000 USD. So our income is roughly 4X more than Taiwan. Therefor, your $20 cell phone bill should cost about $80 in the US.

Costs of goods scale with income? The same cell phone will cost only a tenth in a country with only a tenth of the average income?
 

kazmac

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2010
10,086
8,627
Any place but here or there....
wait and see...

Interesting. I'll wait to see what this fully entails once it hits NYC (hopefully by the time my contract is over...)

I'm glad T-Mobile is pushing the bigger carriers into doing something like this. The $55 plan would be something I can still manage and the idea of no contract is most welcome. For my needs, this plan would work. I understand why there's issues though.

I'll see what they truly mean as more information comes to light(peak) :p
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
How big is Taiwan? How big is the US? If you want to set up full coverage LTE across the country it's gonna cost a company.
The size doesn't matter, it is the cost per customer. Plus there are naturally opportunities for monopoly and/or intransparent pricing when crossing borders.

----------

WHY does the prepaid have a "soft cap" that just throttles after 2GB but LOYAL post paid subscribers get a "hard cap" that charges more money. Once again ATT is screwing over their customers. JUST DIE ATT!!!

Why do new customers get better deals than existing customers? Because to change carrier requires to overcome some inertia, thus switchers need to be enticed and existing customers can be milked a bit.
 

cuda12

macrumors member
Mar 13, 2011
67
0
Miami, FL
Because when it comes to cell phone service plans, Americans are gullible enough to not just pay much more than many other countries for less service but also obligate themselves to 2 or 3 years of payments whether they then use that service for the next 2 or 3 years or not.

All these guys talking about size of the country might be a little right. But size of the country also translates to size of the market. Thus, more revenues from more customers to mitigate more infrastructure costs. You're chasing the wrong thing by trying to tie infrastructure costs into why we pay more. The bulk of why it costs more is because AT&T, Verizon, etc like their profits as fat as they are and are able to flex their muscles to keep entities such as smallish or upstart competitors and or Gov regulation mostly out of their hair.

Solution: if Americans as a group would refuse to sign on or re-up at current rates, rates would come down. Those rates don't have to be where they are because America is such a big country; they're there because we're stupid enough as a group to pay that much for service.

Look no further than how much it costs in infrastructure to support texting and how much we pay to be able to text as the most blatant example of this point.

I think that another effect of the country being much bigger is that upstarts are more difficult (by the way, big companies would prefer regulation, at least some, so that it's harder for small companies to challenge them). Sure, an upstart could maybe get a few cell towers in a certain city, but people aren't going to use a carrier that only works in their city/state when they can sign with a carrier with nationwide coverage and the ability to have huge marketing campaigns.

And saying stupidity is the problem is just ridiculous. It would take millions of people to reject cell service en masse for prices to come down. With cell service so essential to today's society, that is never going to happen. It's not that American individuals are stupid, it's that they know to pick their battles.
 

TouchMint.com

macrumors 68000
May 25, 2012
1,625
318
Phoenix
As others have said I dont see a reason why you would go with att over tmobile. Tmobile is cheaper and offers 4g (where you can get it)...
 

mossme89

macrumors 6502a
Jul 2, 2009
596
131
Someone joked that Aio is being positioned as the "premium prepaid plan". That is what it looks like. Close to the pricing of ST & NET10 with probably no real benefits over them. Service price competition (real competition) in this space would be good for all consumers. I'd like to see more of this in a real competitive environment. Personally, I think Republic Wireless is on the right track. I'd like to see a lot of serious competition doing what they are doing and working to compete on price at that level.
To me, the benefit is being able to purchase more data, or have 7GB of data for $70.

----------

I think that another effect of the country being much bigger is that upstarts are more difficult (by the way, big companies would prefer regulation, at least some, so that it's harder for small companies to challenge them). Sure, an upstart could maybe get a few cell towers in a certain city, but people aren't going to use a carrier that only works in their city/state when they can sign with a carrier with nationwide coverage and the ability to have huge marketing campaigns.

And saying stupidity is the problem is just ridiculous. It would take millions of people to reject cell service en masse for prices to come down. With cell service so essential to today's society, that is never going to happen. It's not that American individuals are stupid, it's that they know to pick their battles.
The price is higher also because it is more expensive to maintain and upgrade an entire country the size of Europe's cell towers rather than just a small amount.
 

RedGeminiPA

macrumors member
May 17, 2009
61
0
Altoona, PA
Straight Talk clarified the streaming bit.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414768,00.asp

That article was from January. My cousin's girlfriend got her Straight Talk phone last week, activated it, watched 3-4 YouTube videos of a few minutes each and had her data terminated the following day without notice.

Here are a few recent (today!) Facebook complaints, below, about data usage:

That article can be printed on fine paper, then use it to wipe your behind with it. They are FULL OF SH-T!

https://www.facebook.com/StraightTalkWireless?ref=stream
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2013-05-09 at 12.39.50 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2013-05-09 at 12.39.50 PM.jpg
    66.8 KB · Views: 107
  • Screen Shot 2013-05-09 at 12.41.17 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2013-05-09 at 12.41.17 PM.jpg
    96.3 KB · Views: 88
  • Screen Shot 2013-05-09 at 12.45.06 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2013-05-09 at 12.45.06 PM.jpg
    117.7 KB · Views: 75

name99

macrumors 68020
Jun 21, 2004
2,184
1,996
For an individual user, this might be a good deal.

But what about family plans? *THAT* is what I'm interested in.

T-Mobile charges:
$50 for the first line + $10 for 2.5 GB
$30 for the second line + $10 for 2.5 GB
$10 for each additional line + $10 for 2.5 GB

AT&T's Aio charges:
$55 for the first line
$55 for the second line
$55 for each additional line

It's only a good deal IF you're no longer getting a subsidy on your phone. And in that case, as has been mentioned already, StraightTalk, on the same network, is a better deal.

(Of course who knows what ATT and others are doing behind the scenes to prioritize calls. Something I have always wondered is, when congestion hits, do StraightTalk customers get dropped first, then ATT prepaid customers, and only last ATT's contract customers?)
 

Tinmania

macrumors 68040
Aug 8, 2011
3,528
1,016
Aridzona
That article was from January. My cousin's girlfriend got her Straight Talk phone last week, activated it, watched 3-4 YouTube videos of a few minutes each and had her data terminated the following day without notice.

Here are a few recent (today!) Facebook complaints, below, about data usage:

That article can be printed on fine paper, then use it to wipe your behind with it. They are FULL OF SH-T!

https://www.facebook.com/StraightTalkWireless?ref=stream

That article was from January. My cousin's girlfriend got her Straight Talk phone last week, activated it, watched 3-4 YouTube videos of a few minutes each and had her data terminated the following day without notice.

Here are a few recent (today!) Facebook complaints, below, about data usage:

That article can be printed on fine paper, then use it to wipe your behind with it. They are FULL OF SH-T!
I can't believe their "support" is that arrogant, even on social media. Good lord.

"Should you need to stream videos and audios, please connect to WiFi." I wouldn't even consider these clowns.



Michael
 

name99

macrumors 68020
Jun 21, 2004
2,184
1,996
4Mbs sounds incredibly slow for HSPA+, no? Isn't that more in line with 3G speeds?

I don't like the name of this new branch (pronounced 'A-O', really?), but this is a smart move. Assuming you can live with the speeds, 7 GB for $70 is probably the best deal going today for those who need it. Keep in mind 'unlimited' data usually means 5 GB.

My current grandfathered plan is 2 GB a month but that's of course with LTE in the mix.

The intersection of
People who need 7GB AND
People who are happy with 4Mb/s max
strikes me as a pretty small set...

This plan would probably work for me, for example, in terms of speed, but I have no need for 7GB so why would I pay for that option? I get along just fine with my current 200MB/month.
 

TouchMint.com

macrumors 68000
May 25, 2012
1,625
318
Phoenix
You don't see a reason yet provided one?



Michael


tmobile does provide 4g (where you can get it location wise) Att does not provide 4g anywhere to matter what.

In most cases tmobile still wins except in some cases where its a draw (both dont get 4g). I wouldnt count that as a reason or point for att.
 

name99

macrumors 68020
Jun 21, 2004
2,184
1,996
Take your phone in Taipei and travel 500 miles to the west. Can you still use it? And 500 miles north. Still $20 per month?

There's your answer.

It's part of the answer, but I don't think it's even the most important part.
The real point is that the cost of cell-phone service in each country is really determined by how much people in that country are willing to pay. The richer a country is, the more it pays.

This is not just a random rant against capitalism, it is inherent in how the system works. The two biggest costs are
- licensing of spectrum and
- renting real estate for cell towers.

Both of these costs will naturally grow as a country grows richer, and will be determined by general interactions (auctions, contract renewals, and so on) which naturally push the price to the maximum which is believed by all parties can be extracted from the pool of consumers.

In such environments technical fixes (like releasing more spectrum) may result in better quality service but they will NOT result in cheaper prices, because the price is not being determined by the TECHNICAL cost of service; it is being determined by what the pool of money is that consumers are willing to spend. Most of that money then passes on to those who hold the monopolies in the system, which means the locations for cell towers and the lease of spectrum.

In this respect, the system very much resembles a number of other broken markets --- housing in many cities, higher education, and much of health being prominent examples.
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
I think that another effect of the country being much bigger is that upstarts are more difficult (by the way, big companies would prefer regulation, at least some, so that it's harder for small companies to challenge them). Sure, an upstart could maybe get a few cell towers in a certain city, but people aren't going to use a carrier that only works in their city/state when they can sign with a carrier with nationwide coverage and the ability to have huge marketing campaigns.

And saying stupidity is the problem is just ridiculous. It would take millions of people to reject cell service en masse for prices to come down. With cell service so essential to today's society, that is never going to happen. It's not that American individuals are stupid, it's that they know to pick their battles.

By stupidity, I meant naivety. And I would readily argue that cell service is not "essential". We naively have fooled ourselves into believing that. Up until as late as the mid-1990's America got by just fine with barely anyone having a cell phone. Now we've deluded ourselves into believing they are essential to our lives. What's so essential about streams of "what R U Doin?" and posting every little thing we're experiencing to Facebook and similar? Sure, there's some people who genuinely need real-time communications to do their job or whatever. But I suspect most of us don't... but just delude ourselves into believing that anytime/anywhere communications are essential to our existence.

To the small companies can't compete because America is such a big place, they could easily compete via MVNOs to reach beyond their own network infrastructure. Some do. When they get strong enough to actually start feeling like a real competitor to the big dogs, the big dogs just buy them out. The airwaves are OUR airwaves. If we followed the lead of other countries so that the players could not own the networks but had to compete solely on service head-to-head, we would see much better pricing than we have now. Instead, we allow each player to own their own networks, we don't mandate that those networks should be readily interchangeable (so we consumers could hop network to network without having to buy new phones), etc all because that is much more profitable for AT&T, Verizon, etc than good for America or American consumers.

Where there's no real competition (which is exactly what we have in this particular case), you have no real incentive for capitalism to work for consumers. You can't have 2-3 or 4 "competitors" and have real competition. Note how they all seem to have about the same pricing and plans. Capitalism works for all when there is enough real competition to make it work. It breaks down when there are too few controlling too much. Who loses? Consumers who really don't have much in the way of choices in such scenarios. How do they lose? They pay too much if they believe they must have whatever is being sold.
 
Last edited:

JAT

macrumors 603
Dec 31, 2001
6,473
124
Mpls, MN
The size doesn't matter, it is the cost per customer. Plus there are naturally opportunities for monopoly and/or intransparent pricing when crossing borders.
I take it you haven't read all the posts where people complain about poor coverage outside of metro areas in the USA, and want more. Your point has some merit that a simple land-area measurement doesn't make a full comparison of the 4th largest country to a tiny island only twice as big as our largest city, but it is more important than you are allowing.



Every time we get a new announcement from one of these companies, I'm happier and happier to have kept my VZW unlimited data. And it only costs me $23/month.
 

Tinmania

macrumors 68040
Aug 8, 2011
3,528
1,016
Aridzona
tmobile does provide 4g (where you can get it location wise) Att does not provide 4g anywhere to matter what.

In most cases tmobile still wins except in some cases where its a draw (both dont get 4g). I wouldnt count that as a reason or point for att.

T-mobile doesn't come close to the coverage provided by AT&T. That is reality.




Michael
 

macspeed66

macrumors newbie
May 9, 2013
1
0
T-mobile vs. AIO

for those trying to compare the two plans, would help a lot if you add totals and factor in the taxes and fees for the T-mobile service (AIO does not charge extras). you will quickly see that it's about the same price for both. now for the service, att's network is far superior to t-mobile and there is no question about that and here is why:
T-mobile operates a 1900 MHZ network where as att operates an 850 MHZ
for those of you knowledgble enough about the subject, an 850 wireless signal travels much better than 1900 (indoor penetration) and assuming the same number of cell site for both companies (att has far more cell towers) att would have a better coverage.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.