ATI Radeon X1600 Curiosity

Discussion in 'Mac Accessories' started by penter, Jul 24, 2006.

  1. penter macrumors 6502a

    penter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    #1
    I have a curiosity on the ATI Radeon X1600 equipped on the Intel Macs.
    From what I've seen on Wikipedia, there are the "Pro" and "XT" versions of the card.
    The two differ in that the XT has faster core and merory clock speeds, higher fillrate and bandwitdth.
    i dont know much about all these specs, but from the little i know i conclude that there is some significant difference between the two.

    My question is:
    Which of the two is equipped in the Intel Macs??
     
  2. Jiddick ExRex macrumors 65816

    Jiddick ExRex

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Location:
    Roskilde, DK
    #2
    I heard the XT, so hoorray. No source to confirm this though :(
     
  3. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #3
    Code:
    ATI Radeon X1600:
    
      Chipset Model:	ATY,RadeonX1600
      Type:	Display
      Bus:	PCIe
      VRAM (Total):	128 MB
      Vendor:	ATI (0x1002)
      Device ID:	0x71c5
      Revision ID:	0x0000
      EFI Driver Version:	01.00.068
      Displays:
    Color LCD:
      Display Type:	LCD
      Resolution:	1440 x 900
      Depth:	32-bit Color
      Built-In:	Yes
      Core Image:	Supported
      Main Display:	Yes
      Mirror:	Off
      Online:	Yes
      Quartz Extreme:	Supported
    Display:
      Status:	No display connected

    However, looking at wikipedia, there's no mention at all of a Pro version of the X1600. At least, not on the English version. Where are you seeing it? Oh.. I see.. on the table at the end. But that's for Desktop models only, not laptop version like the one I have linked above (from my MBP).

    So technically, you're looking at the X1600 on the Intel iMac.

    FWIW, I'm fairly sure that Apple would go with the cheaper model. ;)
     
  4. penter thread starter macrumors 6502a

    penter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    #4
    yeah, i meant a 20 or 17" intel imac. what kind of info can we get from the card besides the one in System Profiler (the one you posted above)? I've been to System Profiler before and it doesnt seem to give the information i was looking for.

    I thought that maybe the 128 VRAM model was the Pro, and the 256 was the XT. any thoughts?

    oh, then if apple would go for the Pro would it be possible to upgrade to and XT, since thechnically they are the same model with different specs?
     
  5. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #5
    Looks like that wiki article is wrong. And the answer to your question is "neither".

    The X1600 Pro has 512MB of VRAM.
    The X1600 XT has 256MB of VRAM.

    http://www.ati.com search for X1600 XT and then X1600 Pro.


    Regardless, there's no iMac with anything larger than a 128MB X1600.
    Again, it's Apple, so it's the cheapest card available to them that goes in it.
    So it looks to me like it's the X1600 for laptops, which wouldn't surprise me. I don't beleive it's an upgradable part for the iMac, so it's part of the logic board, and since cheaper models have integrated graphics, this is further evidence that it's on the mobo and not ungradable and the laptop version of the X1600.

    No, the iMac is an AIO unit, not really meant to be upgraded (other than RAM and HD and maybe DVR). You'll have to wait until they start offering prosumer MacTel desktops. August maybe.
     
  6. penter thread starter macrumors 6502a

    penter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    #6
    that doesnt make sense.... if the cards have 256MB and 512MB VRAM, how could mine have 128MB RAM? and what do you mean they can't have more than 128MB VRAM if you can opt to have 256MB VRAM?

    jsut to make sure i understand what you were saying about upgrading the card... my only chance to have gotten 256MB VRAM was at the time of purchase, where they would have given me a coputer with the 256MB VRAM unit already soldered to the logic board?
     
  7. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #7
    It does make sense. Your iMac has the X1600 mobility. With 128MB of VRAM. Not the X1600XT or X1600Pro.

    And you never could have gotten a video card in an intel iMac with 256MB of VRAM because they don't offer them (yet).
    The max is 128MB. And I'm pretty sure the video isn't an user upgradable option in iMacs.

    EDIT: I'm sorry, that's not true, you COULD have upgraded at the time of purchase, like you said.
    However, I'm going to stick with it being a no-user-upgradable part, so I'm betting you cannot upgrade post-fact.

    Whether the 256MB is a Pro or not, I don't know.

    http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105421&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=803940&highlight=

    You'll have to hope for someone with the high-end X1600 to answer.
     
  8. penter thread starter macrumors 6502a

    penter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    #8
    ooooh, i see. so there are really THREE kinds of x1600s. the "normal" one the pro and the xt.
    by the way, thnx for putting your time into this, its very nice of you.
     
  9. yellow Moderator emeritus

    yellow

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #9
    I hadn't bothered looking beyond the intial iMac screens origianlly, but eventually looked at the BTO options to note that you were correct about the 256MB model. Again, not sure... hopefully someone with the high end X1600 will chime in.
     
  10. penter thread starter macrumors 6502a

    penter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    #10
    hope so too. but its too late now, since it cant be upgraded. thnx!
     
  11. Makosuke macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    The Cool Part of CA, USA
    #11
    Actually, technically, I believe you're looking at the X1600 Mobility on the Intel iMac. This was discussed here early in the year:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=173422

    ...and if you look at that Wikipedia table (which I'm not sure is 100% correct), the Mobility X1600 is the same as the desktop version with a lower clock (plus, I think, an extra power saving mode). Same RV530 core, same stats. It does, however, have a variable clock (it can even change realtime), which the manufacturer sets to match the thermal profile of the enclosure it's going in.

    While Apple doesn't expressly identify the iMac chip as the Mobility, it functionally is since it's clocked lower than the "Pro" version, (this is why Apple doesn't mention X1600 Pro anywhere--just X1600, which is true).

    For reference, the X1600 in my MPB 17", when ramped up, runs at about 425MHz core, 450MHz memory; for comparison, that chart gives the "desktop" X1600 Pro at 500/340.

    I don't have an Intel iMac nearby to test, but according to BareFeats the core is clocked at 405MHz. Which, again, is to say somewhat slower than the X1600 Pro. Don't know about the memory, and I do know that the 15" MBP is supposed to be clocked at 311MHz core, but regardless, it's a solid performing chip.

    You can't expect to get the same performance as a full-speed desktop X1600 Pro out of the iMac, but it's probably not drastically slower, and that's the price you pay for the thermal constraints of the compact case.
     
  12. penter thread starter macrumors 6502a

    penter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    #12
    that definetly clears everything up.
    is it correct, though, that the card is part of the logic board and cannot be upgraded?
    how did you find the forum? see, i jsut earned the title of member today, and im still not quite familiar to the site. i know you can do the "search forums" search, but is there any way of narrowing results?
    also, how did you clock your MBP? I'm very much interested in clocking my iMac, but i dont know how.
     
  13. eXan macrumors 601

    eXan

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Location:
    Russia
    #13
    Do you mean overclocking? If yes, this can only be done under Windows.

    Overclocking ATI GPUs in PPC-based Mac is possible in OSX with ATIccelerator II utility.
     
  14. penter thread starter macrumors 6502a

    penter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    #14
    no, i meant getting the clock speeds. how do i get information as to how fast my machine is running?
    also, how do i get information as to how fast my GPU is running and how many frame rates i get with certain games during gameplay.
     
  15. eXan macrumors 601

    eXan

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Location:
    Russia
    #15
    To get your particular Mac's GPU clock speed you can either:

    1)Search the Web for it
    2)If you have an ATI card (aside from X1600), download and install ATIccelerator II tool. No need to overclock, just vew the numbers there.
     
  16. Makosuke macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Location:
    The Cool Part of CA, USA
    #16
    Graphiccelerator (the newest incarnation of ATIccelerator II) is designed for overclocking and firmware upgrades, but on a MBP it will at least show you what the current clockspeed of the core and memory are. Worked fine for me. (Of course, I don't know for a fact that what it's telling me is correct, but it is a fact that the 17" GPU ramps up under heavy 3D load, whether the specific numbers are correct or not.)

    And in answer to the previous questions, yes, on the MBP and iMac both the X1600 is integrated into the motherboard, not a seperate card, so no upgrades (though at least on older Macs, as said, ATIccelerator II could overclock it if you so desired; I wouldn't be surprised to see this as a feature of Graphiccelerator in the future).

    As for searching the forums, just use the Advanced Search feature and mess around with the options if you're not finding what you want... though somewhat ironically, the thread I linked to was turned up via a Google search. Remember: Google is your friend.

    Last note: For getting framerates of games there's usually an option to turn on a display somewhere. Even the iTunes visualizer has this. That's mostly just useful for messing with settings to get the best performance out of your particular machine. If you want comparitive benchmarks, go to BareFeats.com and look around--they do good Mac benchmarking.
     

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