Attacks on British interests - Blair was warned

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by toontra, Nov 21, 2003.

  1. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #1
    Does anyone remember the leaked report by British security experts to the Goverrnment prior to the war which stated that military action in Iraq would make terrorist attacks against the British more likely?

    Perhaps we are (sadly) seeing this bourne out in Turkey.
     
  2. yamabushi macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

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    #2
    That is what terrorists do. Leaving them alone isn't an option since they will continue to make threats and demands as well as use violence regardless of how nice you are to them.
     
  3. manitoubalck macrumors 6502a

    manitoubalck

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    #3
    Err:rolleyes: leaving them alone is an option. Australia is next to the largest Islamic nation in the world (Indonesia) and the first terror attack aimed to hurt Australian's was on Oct12 2002, After might I add that Little Johnny started playing regional sherrif, following GWB's lead.
     
  4. toontra thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #4
    With due respect, I think you are making the mistake that over half the people in your country are still making - i.e. that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and other similar international terrorist attacks; they were not, no matter how Bush and Blair try to fudge the issue for their own ends.

    Now, however, since the war, Iraq has become a "playground" (as one commentator put it) for terrorists, sucking the in from all over the region. The war is also likely to have gained support for organisations like Al Qaida amongst ordinary Muslims who were shocked at the UK & US's bilateral action.

    In this light, would you not agree that the report Blair suppressed before the war (unlike the glaring publicity he made sure all his pro-war material received) may well turn out to be a lot more accurate an assessment than any of his dossiers on WMD.
     
  5. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #5
    this is in dispute. i'd read an article recently (can't find it, natch) where the CIA et. al. reckon there's actually been very little influx of foreign fighters.

    it seems ordinary iraqis are taking up arms against the occupying forces.
     
  6. manitoubalck macrumors 6502a

    manitoubalck

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    #6
    Gee:rolleyes: what a suprise:confused: How would you react if France lets say decided that the US was a threat to world peace and invaded them. Forced the admin into hiding and declared martial law.

    Bush is a treat to world peace, and he has shown this on many occasions.
     
  7. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #7
    yeah, that news didn't surprise me at all. i'd always taken the "it's the foreign fighters" analysis w/ a giant grain of salt.

    i'm way on board w/ the US-is-invaded analogy. i think i've demonstrated myself to be a violence-as-a-last-resort kind of guy, but i'd fight like hell against an occupation, regardless of how much i hated the administration.
     
  8. wwworry macrumors regular

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    #8
    It's a mistake to think that people can conceive of only one set of option: if I hate saddam I love the US. One can easily hate both if one was an Iraqi.
     
  9. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #9
    lets blame everything bad on George, terrorist are nothing more then thugs,murderers,killers with no value on life not even their own its that simple. these killers are looking to do what they do anyways its about time we go after these criminals everywhere since we pretty much had ignored them until 911. Its so easy for the other side to say lets bury our heads in the sand and maybe the problem will go away. the problem isnt George the problem is any fanatical religion that teaches pure hate towards a group of people. children are brought up in these countries to hate.
     
  10. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #10
    Just because they're willing to sacrifice their own lives for a greater cause doesn't mean they don't value life.

    And since when has hitting the military targets of an invading force been the action of thugs who murder?

    The Iraqi insurgents aren't blowing up busloads of American citizens. They're not terrorists.

    Hardly. We funded them.

    No one is saying we should ignore the problem. Most people opposed are simply angry because:

    1) Violence was chosen as a first resort
    2) It was targeted at a nation that did nothing to us nor posed a threat to us.

    As are many of our children.
     
  11. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #11
    A word I'm seeing more and more is guerrilla. I think it is much more appropriate than terrorist. Terrorists struch the WTC and Istanbul but now, that there is no proof whatsoever that these are foreign fighters in Iraq, we need to face up to the truth that guerilla warfare is taking place there. Iraqis don't want us there and they are voicing their opinion.

    I agree with your fanatical religion analogy but too many americans fail to see that our approach is the flip side of that coin. The religion of the dollar under the guise of "democracy" is partly to blame for the mess in the middle east. If it's not democratic and purchased with a greenback and cloaked in pseudo fundamentalist christian rhetoric then it is simply irrelevant. The teaching of hate is on both sides not just the islamists.
     
  12. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #12
    Did you know Saddam handed out machine guns to civilians in Baghdad before the invasion so they could defend themselves?

    I'd take my crooked bastard of a president over the most upstanding general of an invading army. I know most Americans feel the same way. So does Bush, which is why the WH has led a campaign of disinformation and detachment for Iraq.

    MTV did a show before the war about life in middle-class Iraq. The kids were just like American kids! They listened to the newest CDs, skateboarded, watched popular shows on TV and lived in nice little suburban houses. They went to school and had crushes on classmates.

    It was the opposite of the image we've been pressed to believe -- that Iraq was a nation backwards and teeming with religious fanatics.
    By invading, we may have created just that in place of a society that was modern and stable.
     
  13. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #13
    and you were brought up in this country to hate.
     
  14. yamabushi macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

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    #14
    Saddam commited numerous acts of terrorism without any help from Al Qaeda. He is a monster in his own right. The current attacks in Iraq have been on both military and civilian targets. Aid workers are one common target. Why? Because if they succeed in improving the quality of life for Iraqis then these guerrillas will begin to lose the support of their own people. The attacks appear to be organized by military leaders who are loyal to Saddam and wish to hold on to their power no matter the cost in human suffering. They are more than willing to manipulate their own people into casting off democracy and basic freedoms as tools of the evil U.S. so that they can regain control.

    Since some comments were getting quite personal I decided to get a bit offended and I apologize if my reply seems crass. Oh, and it's okay to dislike Bush and support military action against terrorists at the same time. And as an American I hardly want to spread Christianity throughout the world since I am not even Christian myself. Let's also skip the geography lesson. I am well aware of what has been happening in Indonesia. Besides the numerous papers I have written that involve Indonesia, I have also drawn complete maps of Southeast Asia and Oceania entirely from memory.:p
     
  15. visor macrumors 6502

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    #15
    How to fight terrorism...

    actually, the howto is quite simple.

    terrorists are criminals, and criminals are persued by the police.

    That implies that police is not the military, Don't ever try to use open force on terrorists. Open force in the sense of great military action such as the war on iraq. It puts you in a very very bad position. either you elimitate all terrorists in one great rush, wich is just about impossible, at least without enormous civil damage, or be in a civil war position where all your military strength is drained by hit and run action.

    Americans should know. REALLY know. Most of american history was greatly infuenced by large Armys against inferiour opponents. The indians where mostly eliminated, the britans (a large army) was demoralized by hit and run attacs of militia.
    You don't have to look so far in history - take vietnam, take the russians in afghanistan, take the Germans of the 2nd world war - they where all compromized by small but hard to get resistance. All tried to use harder force to get a grip on their opponents, but the tighter they gripped - the more people slipped trough their fingers.

    History is full of great armies beeing fended off after attacking others...
    Napoleon was defeated in russia, germans in wwone didn't get far in france, Cesar couln#t make it past the limes, the osmans where defeated in austria, the crusaders catched their bloody nose in the middle east, the arabs where horribly defeated after attacking israel, israel is in turn struggling with terrorists that breed in the refugee camps that israel made necessary...

    the only war that i can think of with a real , presumably good, outcome was WW2 - with the attackers beeing defeated again, and beeing defeated so badly that there really was a ground for a new society.
    But gee, what a battle that was... took millions of lives and half a century of occupation to get where we are now.
     
  16. jonapete2001, Nov 23, 2003
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  17. abdul macrumors member

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    #17
    islamic fundamentalist spawn terrorists?? i guess the roman catholics in Ireland will be pleased to be named muslim, and the in Spain as well as the terrorist organisations in columbia and China. Stop branding terrorism woith a religion please that is so narrowminded!

    the UN is not there to decide who is good and bad but there to keep the peace. if that is your motto why the hell is no one talking about china? they have a dictator, they have had much worse human right records. .......oh sorry is it cos the US can make a lot of money from China now?

    The resolutions that were agreed in the UN if i am correct said somethig alot the lines that force will be used IF saddam was found to be in breach of the UN resolution.....he wasnt and the facts that was sold to us werent brought by the french and germans. Saddam even allowed UN inspectors back in and they were searching for weapons for months! so the question is were the UK dumb to follow the more dumb US? .......yes, they believed and created there own rumours about what is happening in Iraq
     
  18. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #18
    Who is defending terrorists? Certainly no one in this forum neither on any of the extreme leftist websites I occasionally visit. That is one of the most vapid and unfounded remarks I have ever heard. Have you been listening too much to rush?

    I'm a firm believer in the idea that "for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction". It is simplistic to blame terrorism solely on US policies of the last 5 decades but to deny that those policies have contributed to terrorism is equally simplistic.

    The only verifiable terrorist activity that sh supported was his gift of money to Palestinian suicide bombers' families. It is very probable that he contributed to other terrorist activities but the US has been unable to find any conclusive proof. gw lied to the US about sh's connections to 9/11 and he should pay for it.

    Also radical US religons are responsible for terrorism, or have you already forgotten about Timothy McVeigh, Ruby Ridge, and Waco? To claim that the cause of terrorism is rooted in Islam is to ignore that the US has been pretty good at creating its own terrorists. Our support of Saddam, bin Laden, the corrupt family of Saud, Sharon, etc has furthered terrorism across the world and we need to accept that US intervention is not the solution to the world's problems. Despite gw's degree in history he has shown very little appreciation of it in his pursuit of an American empire.

    You would do well to stop raving at the left and start looking at what is really going on both here and abroad.
     
  19. jonapete2001, Nov 23, 2003
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  20. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #20
    dude, your religious-centric blame mechanism is nothing more than poorly disguised racism.

    i hate bigotry. do yourself a big favor and get some real education: see the ****ing world, make friends w/ people who aren't white and who don't speak very good english.

    and in the meantime, think long and hard as to why you have so much hate for people you've never met.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #21
    Have you forgoten about the former Yugoslavia so quickly? I can see why you would want to forget it, since it doesn't fit your stereotypical view of the bloodthirsty muslim, but if you remember there Christians were commiting acts of terrorism (sponsored by the state no less) against muslims. Conservatives were livid when Clinton went around the UN and got the support of NATO to oust Milosevic. "We don't do nation building" was the rallying cry. Funny how times change.

    Here is what Tom Delay was saying about our venture into Bosnia:
    Then there was Iraq:
     
  22. jonapete2001, Nov 24, 2003
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #23
    ????? where did i do that?

    i believe that there are people using islam to further their own ends. i'm saddened that it's effective as rallying tool.

    but in no way do i blame the religion itself, as you do.

    ha! i'm not stereotyping you, i've looked at what you've written and it's clear to me what your assorted problems are.

    you are fearful, angry and have a lot of hate. you direct it at people you don't know (muslims), whereas i strongly suspect the reality is you have quite a bit of disdain for yourself. whether that stems from personal failings of a romantic or career (student?) nature, i'm not sure. but i do feel pretty sorry for you.
     
  24. yamabushi macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

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    #24
    mactastic- Good list of quotes. It shows that politics has little to do with reality and much to do with mudslinging in order to gain more power. I wish more more people would remember that on election day.
     
  25. groovebuster macrumors 65816

    groovebuster

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    #25
    :D Man, you are really funny. And how do you know that the USA are the best place, when you never travelled other countries? How ignorant is that? :eek:

    I find it funny, that I met a lot of citizens of the USA who would like to live somewhere else, after they travelled a lot. So how it is possible they came to a different conclusion?

    They are different ways of life and other nice places in the world. The american way of life is not the best for everybody, even not for some americans.

    There is an old german saying: Reisen bildet! (Travelling educates!) I think it holds a lot of truth in it.

    Nobody wants to take away from you that you like where you live and that you are proud of your country, but when it only comes out of pure ignorance and the inability to be open-minded to other views and cultures, it is pitiful.

    groovebuster
     

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