ATV guesses for Sept Event?

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by dmm219, Aug 13, 2009.

  1. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    #1
    Here's my prediction. Same as always. Feel free to flame away when I'm proven wrong :)

    In your Dreams: Brand New ATV, decently priced with TB hard drive, BR player, DVR functionality, tuner, BR drive, Netflix and Hulu.

    Not Likely: Brand New ATV, with all updated specs and components, but with same basic functionality. 1080p.

    Fairly likely: Apple completely ignores the ATV, once again.

    More Likely: No new hardware, ATV 3.0 update.

    Most Likely: Apple discontinues ATV was we know it. Partly replaced by new or break out product (tablet), or Apple exits the living room space all together.

    Apple has fallen way behind when it comes the the living room. The 360 now does everything the ATV does, with far better quality, and a whole lot of stuff that the ATV can't do. Its only weaknesses now are noise, size and controller. These are all minor and can be mitigated somewhat. The new interface is just as easy and pleasing to use as the ATV. I haven't really touched my ATV since getting the 360. On one box I have all the same movies and shows that itunes has, that play on more devices...movies tend to be a $1 cheaper and look better in HD. Netflix on 360 is incredibly good. Hulu on the 360 via playon destroys hulu on ATV via boxee...

    The 360 is the one, (and only) thing I have to give MS a lot of credit for......
     
  2. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    #2
    Using your likert scale:

    In Your Dreams: Apple discontinues the AppleTV
    Not Likely: Big update with lots of bells and whistles
    Fairly Likely: 3.0 Update without new hardware
    More Likely: New AppleTV with just updated specs
    Most Likely: We hear nothing

    Of course, all these events are mutually exclusive and there's a huge jump between "more likely" and "most likely."

    I think there's a really slim chance that Apple discontinues a product that: A) received a software update (albeit minor) so recently and B) is the way we'll consume media in the future (although, not right now apparently).

    I don't really see a huge hardware update until the market really calls for one. I also don't see a 3.0 update without some kind of spec bump on the machine (I can see it happening once, but definitely not twice). Apple won't give time to the AppleTV unless it really has something big to announce and that will have to be accompanied by a hardware update. Thus, if we hear anything about the AppleTV, it will be because of a hardware update.

    But of course, as always, my money is on us hearing nothing about the product. I hope I'm wrong. I use mine quite often, but I don't think I am.

    In the end,
     
  3. macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    #3
    I hope the hint of Blu-ray support in iTunes means BD might be an option for a future ATV device. As I've rambled on before, it's kind of stupid to NOT have an optical disc in this thing. Add that and you're an instant competitor with the array of DVD players on the market. Without it, you're another one of the add-on boxes that hardly anybody has.

    I have a BD player with built-in Netflix (and Pandora) streaming. I'd rather see Apple ditch its physical product and instead work with Samsung, LG, Sony, etc. to add the ATV software to BD players. I mean you can add $100 for these special models (with about 32GB of flash memory added) and sell way more than the ATV units.

    The whole thing is kind of annoying when you can almost have the perfect ATV with a Mac Mini. Add a non-sucky remote (iPhone app is pretty good, but not perfect), install Hulu Desktop and use Netflix streaming via a Web browser and you're golden.

    I have seen suggestions about including Safari in ATV so you could use stuff like Hulu that is Web-only. That would be the bomb as long as some iPhone-like remote was included and/or the Remote app could be used. The problem with the iPhone is it's not really a remote, meaning you can't open iTunes with it. A little multitouch pad and the right OSD will work wonders.

    I wish Steve would hire me to work on his hobby because I could fix it so darn quickly.
     
  4. Sol
    macrumors 68000

    Sol

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    Australia
    #4
    It says a lot about Microsoft if their best product is one that is plagued with a system killing bug/design fault.

    Maybe the XBox360 fulfills all your needs because it has millions of features but the Apple TV experience is so much simpler and better in a lot of ways eg. operating noise, interface, design, power efficiency, compatibility with iTunes... Microsoft may have positioned XBox360 as the console that does it all but from day one the main focus of the Apple TV has been digital movies and it does that very well.

    If the Apple TV is a hobby then the XBox360 is a toy.
     
  5. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    #5
    I think Apple really need to either release an new ATV or eek out a bit more power from the 7300GO GPU - the whole 720p-so-long-as-it's-under-4Mbps-and-not-30fps thing is a bit silly, especially as more and more devices are capturing 720p30 and beyond now.

    I wonder if Intel Crofton cpus, 7300GPUs and PATA hard drives are still easy to find - The switch to a slightly beefier cpu (like a ULV-not ATOM), 9400GPU (or dual core ARM with GPU) and SATA drives (esp 3.5") would make the ATV so much more useful, in terms of being able to sync large libraries (I don't want to leave my computer on 24/7 in case I want to watch a film on the ATV). Who knows, maybe iTunes 9 will will tie in with updated ATV software.

    And didn't Phil say they would transition the ATV to a SnowLeopard-based OS? What would be the point of that without a multi-core proccessor or OpenCL-capable GPU?
     
  6. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Location:
    London
    #6
    Hi all,

    I just joined Mac Forums after lurking for a while as I am very interested in the Apple TV and what everyone has had to say about it so far. I am very keen to buy an Apple TV, and it suits my needs as a device in two main ways at the moment if it were used solely to play back my Apple lossless CD rips through DAC to my hi-fi, but would like to also use it as a movie/TV player for Itunes bought stuff (fed up with DVDs and bluray discs cluttering up everywhere and taking up precious space). Also I would be interested in some video podcasts. I am holding off buying till they have refreshed the line however, as I personally feel it will get an upgrade in the next few months time. I personally think it will just be a bigger HDD, and possibly 1080p output, I don't see them doing the DVR thing (too messy for the simplicity the device is to offer) and I do see it more solely as an iTunes portal - but I could well be wrong.

    Not sure if anyone read this, but recently Barclay's Capital execs met with Apple in Cupertino and Barclay's released a paper touching on updates that they expected Apple to make in the next few months. A link to the story is here:
    http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune...ys-talks-to-apple-execs-raises-target-to-208/

    There is a mention of an upgrade to Apple TV in 2010 there, and they think it's a key factor in Apple's line-up. I think there is a huge battle to be fought in the TV area, and I think Apple is well placed to build on iTunes customers who just want the functionality of the Apple 'walled-garden-model' accessible on their TVs. That's why I don't really see the bluray thing happening with the ATV specifically, more just a refresh of the model's basic features for iTunes and maybe app store functionality. Just my thoughts on the matter though. Interesting to read what everyone has written. Thanks.
     
  7. Sol
    macrumors 68000

    Sol

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    Australia
    #7
    A BD player in Apple TV would make it a Mac Mini; when Apple eventually offer the option you could just get one and have it in Front Row mode all the time. The DVR is optional.

    Power-wise these days there seems to be parity between the Apple TV and iPod Touch. The two devices could easily be merged into an iPod on a HDMI enabled dock.
     
  8. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    Location:
    UK
    #8
    I just don't think a removable item is gonna cut it as an appleTV replacement. It's fine if you live on your own, but if your family share the AppleTV it's no good if one of you is out of the house with it.

    An app store for AppleTV would be a good thing, but it needs a better controller than the iPhone/iPod touch, as they run batteries down too quickly for serious use.

    The biggest hurdle for Apple is probably the film studio's isn't it? TV show rentals would be great, but there must be a conflict with cable/satellite TV suppliers, using their lines to download content devalues their own product to the advertisers. If Apple could convince studios to allow iTunes ripping of DVD's it'd be mega!

    I can't see 1080 unless they put that on iTunes, which is probably a way off yet, and also Joe Public is still pretty happy with DVD quality, do normal people (i.e. not macrumors geeks ;) ) really need more than 720? I don't, content quality is more important if the picture quality is 'excellent' rather than 'stunning' IMO.
     
  9. macrumors 6502a

    bohbot16

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    #9
    I think we're going to get a 3.0 software update to go along with iTunes 9.

    Back in February there was a rumor about Apple working on a new iTunes Replay feature that would let you stream iTunes content instead of download it. Since then, Apple has added the HTTP live streaming feature to QuickTime X and iPhone OS 3.0. Akamai has created a site that demos this technology @ http://iphone.akamai.com/.

    I think that Apple is going to make a change across the iTunes Store to let you stream any audio and video that you've purchased in addition to the existing download option. Users would also be able to delete content from their computer and re-download at a later time. This is in line with what Amazon VOD offers today.

    By adding iTunes Replay to iTunes 9/QuickTime X, iPhone/iPod Touch 3.0 and Apple TV 3.0 Apple can keep everyone purchasing iTunes content beyond their hard drive storage capacity while locking them in for more hardware purchases in the future.

    Thoughts?
     
  10. Sol
    macrumors 68000

    Sol

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    Australia
    #10
    Why not an app store for OS X then? The iTunes Store could have everything from Photoshop to Pet Shop Boys. It would be a good way to cover the installation, backup and update process from the user. Not sure how the Windows version of iTunes would fit in this scenario. Depends on the value of PC users to Apple.
     
  11. macrumors 68030

    uberamd

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Location:
    Minnesota
    #11
    Honestly my ATV was one of my favorite devices until I got a PS3 and realized how crappy media playback on the ATV was. PS3 supports a massive variety of codecs, can play media not in iTunes (not a huge +, but still), has a remote that isn't total trash, and yeah, it has multiple codecs!

    I used to convert all of my downloaded TV shows and movies to ATV format with joy but now that I have a PS3 (and I have a 360 also, but I never tried playback with that device) I don't need to convert, making my ATV a mostly useless device.

    I guess it looks cool, short of that, its very underpowered and massively under-featured. Apple better do something, either hardware or software wise. And adding storage doesn't count, since I streamed everything from my computer anyways.
     
  12. Sol
    macrumors 68000

    Sol

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    Australia
    #12
    Before it came out I imagined the Apple TV would have no on-board storage. That would not only bring down the price but also get rid of the most troublesome component. Airport Express with HDMI; that sort of thing.
     
  13. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA, USA
    #13
    my one AppleTV wish

    I'm hoping a software update brings mlb.tv to the AppleTV. The mlb.tv streams to my iPhone already. I tried watching through Boxee on my AppleTV, but that requires mlb.tv Premium, boo hoo! Just a plain old mlb.tv subscriber account is needed for the iPhone app video stream. This must be using H.264 to be streamed to the iPhone?

    I'm amazed that I can watch a game through WiFi on my iPhone, and it barely pushes the processor, but when I watch on my new MacBook, the temperature of the CPU gets quite hot. That damn Adobe Flash.
     
  14. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    #14
    1080p Support wont happen untill 1080 p content is available via iTunes. I think the Apple tv is great for what it is, the thing Apple really should do is release a widget model for the Apple TV platform. I would love to have constant onscreen widgets and even a dashboard a la OSX. I for one don't care about streaming video from hulu/netflix but I think thats what the apple tv needs to push it into the mainstream. I just don't know if that fits into the iTunes model. Theses services however would sell more hardware and that is exactly how apple makes money.
     
  15. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    #15
    The Future of Apple TV

    Apple TV's Future

    STAGE II

    Time Capsule + Apple TV (i.e. Soreage Solution + USB 2.0 Expansion + Router + Media Player + Gigabit Ethernet + 802.11n AP + TV Tuner) = Apple TV 3.0 (January 2010)


    1. Better Controller Included (iPod Touch-like)
    2. Gigabit Ethernet
    3. Dual Core Processor
    4. Sold State Hard Drive: 64GB
    5. Smaller Packaging
    6. Mini-Display Port and HDMI Support

    Software
    1. Seamless Singular Audio and Video Library Presentation which supports NAS Systems, iTunes Servers, iTunes Sharing from any PC or Mac, or sharing from your iPhone or iPod Touch
    2. Ability to Display Library and Playlists by Source / Device and turn off devices you wish to not include.
    3. Apple TV Applications and Games
    4. Support for more internet TV Media: Hulu, PBS, CBS, etc.
    5. Create an internet Syncing / Sharing Experience for pictures with your Families and Friends Similar to Dropbox or add support for Dropbox.
    6. Better Interface with Touch and Cover Flow in Mind (Like iPhone but focused on HDTV’s size)
    7. Better Interface to incorporate pictures from many computers or NAS.
    8. Better Subtitle and Menu Support for all video.
    9. 1080p Video Streaming Support
    10. More Codec Support (includes MPEG-2 support)
    11. Better integration of iPod Touch, iPhone and new Mac Tablet.
    12. Better Video Tagging built into a redesigned iTunes.
    13. Better Music Lyrics support in Audio Tagging in a redesigned iTunes
    14. Support for Karaoke with Lyrics and wireless microphone.
    15. Monthly Rental Subscription Plan (Optional)


    STAGE III

    Time Capsule + Apple TV (i.e. Soreage Solution + USB 3.0 Expansion + Router + Media Player + 10 Gigabit Ethernet + 802.11n AP) = Apple TV 4.0 (2011)


    STAGE IV

    Storeage Solution (Solid State Hard Drive) + USB 3.0 Expansion + Router + Media Player All Built into a TVs = Apple TV 5.0 (2013)
     
  16. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    ATL
    #16
    To me all i want is:

    itunes to work like hulu (ad supported free videos that stream) or hulu

    an itunes server


    i have no need for a dvr if its got hulu-esque on demand.

    But none of these things are going to happen.... i've given up hope. :(
    Oh well, soon it will be mini and plex
     
  17. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Location:
    London
    #17
    Quick query regarding above file size and fps limitations - at present is this a hardware imposed (or restricted by) limitation or OS-based limit? Thanks.
     
  18. macrumors P6

    Tallest Skil

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Location:
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    #18
    The hardware can do 1080. The software prevents it.
     
  19. macrumors 68000

    hitekalex

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    #19
    Are you kidding me? Xbox-360 is a terrible product. I had 3 of them at one point, acting as Media Center extenders.. Had to go through 4 replacements due to the infamous RROD (red ring of death) failure.

    Codec support was non-existent outside of MS media, they just recently added half-baked support for H.264. The box is big, noisy and consumes a lot of power. It's very poor suited for a living room media purposes in my opinion.
     
  20. macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    #20
    While I really hope they update the box to support 1080p playback (ideally H.264 in a MKV container - wishful thinking, I know)... this will likely only happen if the decision makers at Apple wish they had 1080p playback and they think 1080p movies can be stored and delivered over the internet without breaking the bank on their hosting services and without enough delays to create a negative viewing experience. To otherwise support 1080p is basically a move in support of piracy although I guess you could argue that it is to support people ripping their blu-ray discs for digital playback.

    As for Blu-ray... I don't think Blu-ray will ever find it's way into an AppleTV. Apple is all about delivering content digitally over the wire. In addition, if they offer 1080p playback, there is really no need for Blu-ray support.
     
  21. macrumors 601

    HobeSoundDarryl

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Location:
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    #21
    Do you have a source for this statement (that is hopefully not: "The interface can output 1080p")?

    With all the whining about lack of 1080i/p (myself included), and the multitude of :apple:TV hacks, I've seen nothing at all about the hardware being able to output anything about a weak variant of 720p.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if you comment were true, but I'm thoroughly convinced that if I want to see 1080i or 1080p video (not interface) playback via :apple:TV, it will require new :apple:TV hardware.
     
  22. macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    #22
    If you do a search on Nvidia's 7300M chip which the AppleTV apparently uses, you will find that it does support 1080p playback. Whether there are other bottlenecks in the hardware that are preventing 1080p playback or just a software issue, I don't know... I'd like to hear Tallest's comments on this as well.
     
  23. macrumors P6

    Tallest Skil

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Location:
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    #23
    http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2951&p=6
     
  24. macrumors 601

    HobeSoundDarryl

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Location:
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    #24
    No, no, no. There are more sources of 1080 HD video than just movies on Blu-ray disks. HD (including 1080p) camcorders are hot sellers for the last few years (I'm on my 2nd one already). I would LOVE to be able to display the family video I've shot (edited in Apple software like iMovie and Final Cut) at the full resolution in which it was recorded. Instead, if I want my homemade HD to show on my HDTV in its full "glory"(?), the only option for me is to connect the camcorder directly to the TV.

    And before someone chimes in with, "you can't see the difference," yes we can (and it's quite obvious).

    My biggest wish for a :apple:TV update continues to be 1080p video playback, so that my other (not iTunes store) Apple software edited video can be enjoyed at its full resolution. That iTunes doesn't have 1080 HD video yet (or that most broadband pipes couldn't handle the downloads) doesn't need to be the excuse to justify why Apple can't give customers what they want. Apple can simply add 1080 downloads when the studios allow them to do so.

    After all, Apple keeps saying they don't make hardly anything in iTunes content anyway; iTunes is (apparently) there to help sell more hardware. How many :apple:TV threads are packed with people saying they won't buy an :apple:TV until it can playback video at full 1080 HD?
     
  25. macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    #25
    The hardware can decode limited 1080p, just look at the software hacks that allow it (bypassing itunes) and in most cases that is without decent utilization of the gpu.

    mkv support on an appletv is a fools dream imo.
     

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