Audi to unleash new RS4

Discussion in 'Community' started by iGav, Oct 29, 2004.

  1. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #1
    425bhp
    4.2 litre V8
    Naturally Aspirated (the best part) :D
    Sub 4.9 seconds 0-60
    155mph (limited, but we all know Audi uses soft limiters on RS models)
    Quattro (possibly with DSG)

    Come to daddy!!!!! :D

    http://www.autocarmag.com/news_article.asp?na_id=211652

    Speaking of fast cars... iGav Vs BMW Pt 2 is soon... M5 baby!! ;) :D
     
  2. evoluzione macrumors 68010

    evoluzione

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    #2
    i'll be looking for a report on Pt.II lad :)


    sounds tops, any motor that is naturally aspirated and pumps out 100hp per litre is special in my book, i remember when the M3 was the first to do it a few years back.


    a mate of mine is getting rid of his 330ci and looking at audis, maybe i should inform him... ;)
     
  3. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    I guess rotary engines don't count. My 1985 RX-7 with the 1.1 litre was already doing more than 100 hp per litre. :D

    Audi certainly do have good engineering skills. It'd be nice to see some of that on the roads here. It's probably only 1 in 1000 who own Audis.
     
  4. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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  5. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    Mar 9, 2002
    #5
    Remember F1 cars back in the '80's, rumoured to be sneaking out up to 1500bhp from 1.5 litres!! :eek: :D

    I think the best bit about the new RS4 is the fact they've dropped the Turbo... Sooooooooooo very good is that!! even though they pretty much remove any trace of turbo lag (well the RS6 has next to none, but then that also has a boatload of torque coming in at 1500rpm to hide it) you can't beat a well executed NA engine!! :D

    Can't wait to give the M5 some... just need to remember where the 500bhp button is!! heheheheh
     
  6. russed macrumors 68000

    russed

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    #6
    mmmm tasty! i'm liking the new audi's at the moment. they are finally starting to look nice. they have got rid of the huge back on the a6 - yay! i couldnt stand it!
     
  7. sparky76 macrumors regular

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    Jul 2, 2003
    #7
    I don't want to sound too flash, but I have the current S4 and, as the new RS4 seems to use almost exactly the same components, I wonder if a quick brain transplant could effectively give me an RS4? That would be v nice.
     
  8. andym172 macrumors 6502

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    Oct 24, 2003
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    #8
    Just as turbo's are getting more efficient, more powerful and cheaper to produce and run (more reliable) Audi decides to drop it from the flagship model of that range. Strange decision IMO.

    The M5 is going to be a 500bhp V10, Mercedes are looking into making the E55 turbo-charged (I'm thinking 500+bhp and similair torque) and Audi is shouting the fact that they're producing a 425bhp V8. Just doesn't excite me especially given that recent Audi's aren't the most handling-centric cars :(

    I'm definitely a fan of n/a over forced induction (contrary to the fact that both of my cars are turbo's - VX220 Turbo and a mk4 Golf GT TDi), but in the current climate where power talks I can't really see this as being a forward step for Audi :(
     
  9. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #9
    Why is it strange?? naturally aspirated isn't the poor relative of the turbo. Does it affect BMW because it's flagship performance car (M5) is naturally aspirated?

    The 2 finest production engines ever (Ferrari's Enzo V12 and McLaren F1's BMW V12) are both naturally aspirated.

    I certainly don't think a 425bhp 4.2litre V8 is a step back in anyway shape or form from making a similar output with a turbo, it is however arguably a more 'pure' layout and will almost certainly offer a better drive.


    The current V10 in the M5 is actually a little low in the torque stakes the 530d almost matches it, infact Mercedes already exceed it with the current Supercharged E55.

    It'd be interesting to see whether Mercedes will opt for turbocharging the next gen E55 or stick with the Supercharger. I'm with Gordon Murray on this one that nothing beats a well developed naturally aspirated engine, but if you MUST use some kind of forced induction then supercharging is a damn sight better than turbocharging.


    What you have to remember what Audi are shouting about, is making the most powerful car in it's class, a class which doesn't include either the 5 Series or the E Class.

    For that comparison we'd need to consider the next uber-wagon from Ingolstadt, which could possibly be a more highly tuned version of the current Twin Turbo V8 found in the RS6 or as some other rumours suggest like the M5 a (Lamborghini sourced) V10, both solutions knowing Audi's history for going 1 step further than BMW could possibly see it's bhp figures hit anything from 510bhp to 545/550bhp... now that surely must be something to get excited about??


    I still don't understand why you see the dropping of the turbo as such a problem? 425bhp from 4.2 isn't a bad output at all (breaks 100bhp/litre) and it's certainly no disgrace having 65bhp more than a M3 CSL!
     
  10. WinterMute Moderator emeritus

    WinterMute

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    #10
    Very nice indeed, I still think the RS6 is a better car, but only in the 600bhp version.
     
  11. andym172 macrumors 6502

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    #11
    I see it as a step back in that the previous model was bought by power-junkies who loved the paractical/sleeper aspect about the car. Here was a car the as standard was quick, but could be made much quicker by tuning for relatively little money. Many buyers didn't buy the 'old' RS4/6 for the car that it was, but for the car that it could be. There's no question that an n/a engine is much harder to get improved power out of than a forced induction engine.

    With the new car they've produced a car that's already way off the current cream of the crop when it comes to power and is hardly going to be improved upon with aftermarket tuning.

    If we see the M5 as the benchmark, not only is the M5 much more powerful, it'll probably be as heavy (if not lighter), have better brakes, better handling and more communicative steering. So where does this leave the new RS4?

    If I were in the market for a high powered saloon why would I choose the RS4 over the M5?
    If I were in the market for an estate why would I buy the RS4 over an E55?

    Gordon Murray is 100% right in preferring n/a's to forced induction, but I would imagine he would be of the opinion also that this does not mean that an n/a engine is instantly better than a turbo or supercharged engine. A 425bhp V8 is unremarkable in the current climate - it appears Audi have seen what Mercedes are doing with their turbo's and have decided that they can't keep up and so have made a half baked attempt at going back to n/a only to discover that BMW have well and truly stolen their thunder.
     
  12. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #12
    Well, I don't remember much from the 80's (hell, I wasn't even alive for half of it! :p) but I bet some of those engines (Honda, BMW) were well past 1500 in qualifying trim ;)
     
  13. sascha h-k macrumors 6502

    sascha h-k

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  14. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #14

    It's actually at the head of it's class for power... and thus cream of it's particular crop. Better than the M3 (and the CSL) as well as the C32 AMG!

    Expect BMW to have similar power from it's new M3/M4 when it likely shifts to a V8 from it's current straight 6 config after BMW themselves admitted that the CSL is pretty much as far as they can go (reliably) with it's current engine.


    Again... the RS4 is not competing with the M5 or the E55... both are much bigger cars in the class above. This leaves the new RS4 at the top of it's class. A class that includes BMW's M3.

    You'll need to compare the next generation RS6 with either the current M5 or E55.


    Not that they're in the same class or anything... but maybe the compactness of the RS4 would be more suitable?? the fact that they'll be an Avant version might make it more practical?? that having Quattro will make it faster and safer in all but the most perfectly dry conditions??

    But if I was thinking of buying a car in the M5 price/size range, then I wouldn't consider the RS4 at all... I'd buy an RS6 Plus ;)


    See directly above... the natural competitor to the E55 is the RS6 not the RS4, the RS4 would compete with the C32 AMG Estate (have driven one of those in saloon version, goes like stink in a straightline, but like all Mercs doesn't dig corners).


    Errr he does actually.... that's why the BMW V12 wasn't supercharged or turbocharged. There was a great interview with him in Evo magazine a couple of years ago (it's the one with the Veyron on the front December '02 maybe??) and he pretty much dismisses turbocharging altogether and only rates supercharging slightly higher.


    425bhp from 4.2 litres is actually pretty remarkable, few cars exceed that from a naturally aspirated engine, the M3 being one which makes 106bhp per litre I think (or 111bhp in the CSL). As bousozoku pointed out though, Rotary's exceed it which make insane bhp/litre outputs.

    As for being worried by Mercedes... I very much doubt that. Mercedes only get 102bhp/Per litre from a Twin Turbo in the CL 65 AMG, but then Mercedes have never been especially goood at making competitive engines without any form of forced induction. Hence why even on base C Class models they're usually accompanied by the 'Kompressor' badge, to help them keep even vaguely competitive with a 320.

    Anyway... nice car the VX220 Turbo, what's it like to drive?? nearest thing I've driven to that is an Elise, and that was pretty fun (even though my head sticks out the top making it potentially lethal)... see you have a TDi Golf as well... does that mean the VX is a summer/trackday car only?? :D
     
  15. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    Mar 9, 2002
    #15
    It's difficult to get proper and reliable figures, I've read that the Renault V6 Turbo was quite possibly the most powerful F1 engine ever produced in both race and quali trim.

    Although some say that the BMW was the most powerful in race trim at some 1200bhp, without proper figures it's difficult to say.

    Mind you they were making 1000bhp back in the Auto Union days, if from stupid displacements, that's what makes the '80's Turbo's so impressive 1000bhp+ from only 1.4 and 1.5 litres. :D Only thing is... a V6 Turbo didn't exactly set the blood racing with it's sound, nothing like the howl from a current 19,000rpm from a V10!! :D


    man, I'd forgotten about those... they look better without the windscreen though! ;)
     
  16. andym172 macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Ah! Sorry, you are right - the M5 and E55 are larger/more expensive cars.
    As to whether or not the new RS4 will be better than the current M3 I very much doubt. That is, unless they've sorted out the chassis and lifeless steering.

    What I was saying re: Gordon Murray was that he's be likely to be in favour of a world class turbo/supercharged engine rather than a guttless n/a. I totally agree with your sentiments that an n/a engine is the more pure option, but todays turbo's are bloody good and can provide big power gains with relatively minor lag.

    The VX is an excellent car :) I've had it tuned by AmD so it's now producing near the 250bhp / 255 lb/ft mark - 0-100 in the 10's...which is nice! :D
    Better than the power is the handling which I had set up by a company called Gugliemi Motorsport (www.scaredstifff.co.uk).
    And no, I'm not a puff so she's used all year round - even in the snow if I'm feeling particularly hairy-chested :eek:
    How tall are you? I've known owners of 6"5 who haven't had problems in the VX.
     
  17. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #17
    The steering feel is the biggest obstacle to the the RS4, the same way it is to the S4, problem is it's unlikely that you'll ever get the same steering feeling through a 4WD car as you would from a RWD one, it's the same even with the Subaru and Mitsubishi Evolution, none has the steering feel to match an M3, the power and vibration through the front wheels numbs the feeling and precision that makes the M3 legendary.


    Good to hear it gets driven all year round... :D have you taken it to a trackday yet??

    I'm 192cm tall... which makes me too tall for an Elise (Mk 1) without having an ultra low seat fitted, my head clearly sticks out which makes me' bonce the rollover bar!! :eek: :p

    So what colours the VX?? don't say Yellow!! :eek:
     
  18. iMeowbot macrumors G3

    iMeowbot

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    #18
    Wow, and I thought those Flores skeletons were impressive!
     
  19. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #19
    hahahaha... I've been making some right typo's recently... :eek: :rolleyes: :p
     
  20. andym172 macrumors 6502

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    #20
    Have tracked it on a few occasions :) It can keep up with all but the most extreme and focused track cars.

    My VX is Moonland Grey - the car to the right in this pic (taken in North Wales during an excellent 'blat' with a couple of mates of mine :)).

    [​IMG]
     
  21. iGav thread starter macrumors G3

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    #21
    nice choice... the Elise I drove was pretty much that colour, but with the deep red/burgundy roof.

    so are those your mates VX's?? :eek: :D
     
  22. Macs R Us macrumors 6502

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    #22
    Tooooo Much Car... Well then again, I'd take any car that works right :rolleyes: ... Sure is amazing tho..
     
  23. andym172 macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Yep :)

    The blue VXT is pretty much the exact spec as mine including the AmD work.
    The red VX is actually the special edition VXR (new sus setup, new turbo, alloys and tyres, interior trim etc).

    Althouh the VXR is around 20bhp down on our cars he was able to cover ground quite a lot quicker due to the super sticky tyres fitted.

    Hugely capable cars - without spending big £ I'm not sure what I'll be buying next...
     

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