Audio Decoding KILLS MacPro (2009) green factor

[seisend]

So, none of this was ever resolved concerning the new problem the SL-only audio update seems to have created? I am still on Leopard with my Apogee unplugged (because there was never any resolution for original CPU overdrive/audio problem ).

Kinda damned if I do (update to SL and get a whining noise) or damned if I don't (running machine 20~40 degrees hotter all the time interface is plugged in).

I am curious that the whole subject (three threads) all went 'dead' without ever following up on the last info to have come of the update?

You can use SL without the whining noise . You just have to undo the Audio Update 1.0 . But after that you have the heat/performance/power problem again. It seems that Apple doesn't give a f**** about that problem.

 

[Loopy C]

You can use SL without the whining noise . You just have to undo the Audio Update 1.0 . But after that you have the heat/performance/power problem again. It seems that Apple doesn't give a f**** about that problem.

Yeah, then for me it is easiest to stay at Leopard for now then...just hoping I had missed some further development but from the sound of your post I guess it has been left to rot

 

[nanofrog]

You can use SL without the whining noise . You just have to undo the Audio Update 1.0 . But after that you have the heat/performance/power problem again. It seems that Apple doesn't give a f**** about that problem.

I take it then, that 10.6.3 hasn't helped at all then (thought they might include a silent update to this issue)?

Assuming this is the case, they really have spread their resources too thin = don't care about professional users any longer (not enough resources = piss poor and very incomplete validation testing).

 

[cl-user]

I thought that we'd learned that the only mechanism which gets through to Apple (re. appropriate support for bugs like this) is bad publicity in the national press.

We also learned that any number of Apple fans complain loudly if any effort to get bug fixes can be seen as indicting Apple of imperfection. I assume an unwitting brand loyalty thing. This is an unhelpful force and one to ignore.

As it is, there status quo seems to be that a few sound pros use Mac Pros and firewire devices for work. They as a collective are presumably few in number and not very organized or vociferous.

Hence it looks as things stay the way they are. At least until the effected users and any interested rally together, get organized, and make a concerted effort to get through to Apple on wavelengths that they listen to.

As we know, there is no mechanism to get through via support services, Apple "geniuses", writing emails, ... And we also know that although there are able people in Apple, they are no driven by whatever force would be needed to get them to trawl about and find that a few audio pros are quietly having serious problems.

 

[smacman]

The way Apple handled this whole thing has triggered the beginning of the end of my relationship with them. The Mac Pro was the last Apple system I will ever purchase, and I now go out of my way to tell my story to anyone that will listen.

Every empire eventually falls. The causes can be many, but greed and arrogance are almost always among them.

 

[cl-user]

The way Apple handled this whole thing has triggered the beginning of the end of my relationship with them.

I'm sad to hear this smacman. I'm in an equivalent situation myself, but I'm trying to change my expectations and assumptions about Apple.

Apple evolves, they are running away in other areas of enterprise. Proportionately such niches as the Mac Pro a shrinking in proportion to the whole business. But even more, Mac Pro business isn't really growing, but areas like lifestyle and mobile computing are mushrooming for Apple. And perhaps even that is small beer for them in the context of royalty business in app store, music, publishing, ...

Perhaps Apple could have apportioned both appropriate levels and type of support to workstation products, but they aren't and I doubt that is oging to change.

I indict myself for in some small measure allowing myself to trust to the momentum and general hype. If my Mac Pro had been the only one made and from an unknown company, I would have researched the level and quality of support. This I didn't do.

 

[seisend]

1. There are not that much people complaining about this problem. Maybe because many audio pro's work still with 10.4 or 10.5 and don't know/care abou the heat/performance/power problem.
2. People have no clue what the Audio Update 1.0 is for, so they just reverse the update and they don't care anymore about it.
3. In this thread, we had maybe 100+ users who cared about the old problem. With the new problem, there are only a handfull. Infact, the only ACTIVE user I know who tries to help on MacRumors and Apple discussion forums is CL-USER.

I wrote some mails to a few macintosh news sites but they did not answer. Maybe someone else have to try.

And I am wondering too if this whining noise is hardware related and not fixable with a Firmware / update. Maybe this is the "compromise" they had to make to solve the audio/performance/power problem with the Audio Update 1.0.

My Mac Pro (10.6.3 - without audio update) has the heat/performance/power problem all the time because just having the audio interface plugged-in generates it. You don't have to play any music or media. So my iStat shows always 55°C / 45°C, we measured the CPU diode temps and stuff much earlier in the thread and they are burning high. I won't speed up my fans and cool my CPU's down. Let that thing burn, like Apple wants it.

 

[nanofrog]

I thought that we'd learned that the only mechanism which gets through to Apple (re. appropriate support for bugs like this) is bad publicity in the national press.

I figured that they'd take a little more interest to keep any subsequent issues out of the press (i.e. fix solves one issue, but creates another/others).

How foolish of me to think they may have gotten a bit of a hint on how to handle things properly.

As it is, there status quo seems to be that a few sound pros use Mac Pros and firewire devices for work. They as a collective are presumably few in number and not very organized or vociferous.

At this point, the logical conclusion is they were "banking" on this rather than solve any subsequent issues (cheapest way to approach the situation).

I'm in an equivalent situation myself, but I'm trying to change my expectations and assumptions about Apple.

What's the purpose of lowering your expectations?

Software investment too much to manage a switch to avoid future issues like this?

Just curious, as I've seen a long trend that users (in general) have been conditioned to accept substandard products, and not complain too heavily. From my POV, it makes me sick to see how our standards have fallen so low for the money spent, especially if the product is a workstation. These aren't budget boxes afterall...

And I am wondering too if this whining noise is hardware related and not fixable with a Firmware / update. Maybe this is the "compromise" they had to make to solve the audio/performance/power problem with the Audio Update 1.0.

It's reasonable to deduce that if the noise wasn't there previous to the "fix", then it's not hardware (i.e. lack of sufficient filtration, bad grounding,...).

 

[cl-user]

[...] Infact, the only ACTIVE user I know who tries to help on MacRumors and Apple discussion forums is CL-USER.

You are very kind seisend. I don't deserve to be called active, I just responded every now any again to posts. Selfishly trying to puzzle out what Apple is doing, what that beast really is under the skin, what to expect of it.

Going on, I agree with what you say though. So we accept that the concerned people are just too few to be heard?

If so, the course of action going foward is just acceptance, resignation, compromise, sighs?

 

[cl-user]

[...]
What's the purpose of lowering your expectations?

Software investment too much to manage a switch to avoid future issues like this?

Just curious, as I've seen a long trend that users (in general) have been conditioned to accept substandard products, and not complain too heavily. From my POV, it makes me sick to see how our standards have fallen so low for the money spent, especially if the product is a workstation. These aren't budget boxes afterall...

You have a good point. I suppose my sense is that all too often I find I'm ranting away about something that seems to me to be blatantly suboptimal and unnecessarily so. But find myself alone in the wildness and just being seen as a nuisance.

I get this particularly when it seems the weakness is a burden on many rather than a few. Like poor UI design or poor corporate strategy.

Occasionally I find that I was just ahead of the curve, or seeing something real and significant that others apparently don't have eyes to see at the time, but even if that were or is so, it seems no way to spend life.

I do find that when the masses get with the issues, my motivation subsides.

I'm like an infant chimpanzee shrieking about the leopard I've spotted. But when the troupe are on the case, my job is done.

Demented.

As to being short changed by a gargantuanly rich corporation that don't begin to get appropriate customer service - no excuses.

 

[nanofrog]

You have a good point. I suppose my sense is that all too often I find I'm ranting away about something that seems to me to be blatantly suboptimal and unnecessarily so. But find myself alone in the wildness and just being seen as a nuisance.

I get this particularly when it seems the weakness is a burden on many rather than a few. Like poor UI design or poor corporate strategy.

Occasionally I find that I was just ahead of the curve, or seeing something real and significant that others apparently don't have eyes to see at the time, but even if that were or is so, it seems no way to spend life.

I do find that when the masses get with the issues, my motivation subsides.

I'm like an infant chimpanzee shrieking about the leopard I've spotted. But when the troupe are on the case, my job is done.

Demented.

As to being short changed by a gargantuanly rich corporation that don't begin to get appropriate customer service - no excuses.

I've a fairly simple way of looking at computers; they're tools. Find the best fit, and go with it (hardware + software, as well as the financial impact over time).

If the MP is no longer the best fit, it's time to find something else. Don't worry about what others are doing, as they may not be paying enough attention (likely to be a big issue in the near future for OS X users IMO).

But I do realize there are some limitations, particularly finances (i.e. extensive software investement in a specific OS, and the switching costs are untennable as a result, forcing a user to stick with a specific OS, and if it's OS X, that means a MP or hacking a BIOS based system). Choices end up limited, and it's a compromise that could approach unbearable (stuck with existing software/equipment, but it's not doing what you need). It can get ugly.

So be careful, as things seem very uncertain right now to me in terms of the future of MP's and the professional software run on them. Afterall, it's no secret Adobe and Apple have a difficult relationship at best, and more likely nothing but contempt for one another. Then consider Apple's lowered interest in the workstation market given their recent history. It just doesn't look that good IMO.

 

[cl-user]

[...]
If the MP is no longer the best fit, it's time to find something else. Don't worry about what others are doing, as they may not be paying enough attention (likely to be a big issue in the near future for OS X users IMO).(

Please say more ...

 

[nanofrog]

Please say more ...

Well, from a hardware POV, the PC side is easier (and cheaper) in the long run. More choices, and longer support, not to mention items such as graphics cards (same GPU) are less expensive to buy. Firmware access is a big one to me.

Software, will depend on exactly what you need. I've noticed some members discussing the merits of OS X vs. Windows/Linux not that long ago, and it seems that the offerings for those OS's have made improvements that put them on equal, or even better footing than the OS X versions (particularly with features, as the OS X side lags). That's what I got out of it anyway.

I'd say do the research with the specific types/suites you use/need, and go from there.

A hack is a possibility as well, but if you don't want to have the potential issue of getting the wrong hardware (which means either some things will never work, or putting in the time to sort issues with each update), may not be the best solution. That said, the right hardware and method are seamless. It takes a lot of research to make the right choices if you go this route.

But as a general rule, I wouldn't do it if you're making money with your system. Too much potential for lost time = lost business and a bad reputation as unreliable/poor work due to an overly rushed time frame.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but I don't recall all the details as to what you're doing/situation.

 

[EuphangeL]

Greetings

From what i've read here and after looking into the MacPro Audio Updates Apple released there might be something common with a problem I and a lot of other people experiencing with Firewire Audio Interfaces and Macbooks. It is mostly heat / cpu usage from kernel_task (AppleFWAudio) problem just like the think that happened to MacPros after the MacPro Audio Update 1

You can check out the details i gathered here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/942328/

Maybe from the experience you gathered trying to solve this issue some of you may find similar findings as the MacPro Audio Update 1 introduced with CPU usage when Firewire Audio connected and increased wattage by the CPU (so temps are raised too)

Thanks people