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Axis of Evil

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Btoney, Aug 30, 2003.

  1. macrumors newbie

    It's not as easy as you might think to keep abreast of the American psyche. When the "Axis of Evil" was invented (by a Canadian speechwriter, apparently), there was one curious omission. For years, Cuba was America's favourite enemy and yet it seems to have dropped off the radar screen. Castro must feel quite insulted. And the cigar stores in town will be complaining about a decline in American customers who like to purchase their Cuban cigars here.
    What happened? Did we miss something?
  2. macrumors 601


    it's the rule of threes. it works in comedy and elsewhere. cuba just didn't make the top 3.
  3. macrumors newbie

    In your context, the psyche hasn't changed; only the target.

    On a halfway serious note, Castro doesn't seem to be working hard to export his "Revolution" all over the bloomin' place, so there's little official interest in him right now.

    I know a Cuban/American lady who's done some work on promoting eco-tourism in Cuba. Aside from rafting/canoing, the bass fishermen love the place!

  4. macrumors 603


    maybe he quit going after them because bush realized how good their cigars were.
  5. macrumors 68000


    Re: Axis of Evil

    I think it has more to do with the geopolitical ambitions of the Bush administration. Iraq, Iran, and North Korea undergoing regime change (how's that for a euphemism for invasion) would have a far greater impact in their respective regions than Cuba. But don't think for a minute that they have forgotten Cuba.
  6. macrumors 6502


    I don't personally know the workings of the speechwriter (who was dumb enough to let people know he wrote it) but I have a very, very strong feelings that Cuba didn't make the list because communism isn't the threat anymore. The problem now are the countries that support (financially, materially) terrorists and harbor them. But then does North Korea come in?

    Oh, and I think some of you guys don't understand something, or maybe you do and don't think the administration would bother keeping the treaty but the U.S. has agreed not to invade Cuba. I don't know if the treaty has a time limit, whether it has to do with when Castro leaves power, but I know that we've agreed not to invade Cuba. Maybe some of you didn't know that, maybe some of you just don't trust the Bush Administration to keep Kennedy's promise.
  7. macrumors 68040


    You forgot to parenthetically add "allegedly" and "hypothetically."

    Or trust it on anything. Seriously, can the country be any more screwed up than it is now? Is there anything Bush hasn't nearly totally ****ed up? I guess we'll find out if he gets another four years to "fix" it.
  8. macrumors 68000


    I remember Kennedy's pledge (I've noted it a couple of times in another thread just recently), but I don't trust the folks in the Bush administration to honor it. If they could figure out a way to kill Castro tomorrow they would do it.

    edited for spelling.
  9. macrumors regular

    Rat you say Castro isn't trying to spread the word of the revolution? Guess you haven't heard of a place called Venezuela then huh?
  10. macrumors 6502

    As would have Kennedy, and he did organize assassination plots. Whether they were actually with the Mafia is another story, but President Kennedy made several assassination attempts against Castro.
  11. macrumors 68000


    I'm aware of them, including also plots with exploding cigars and chemicals to make his beard fall out. My point was this administration hasn't forgotten Cuba or their desire to overthrow the regime by any means they can. Having been to Cuba many years ago, they are fooling themselves if they think it will be easy install a "friendly" regime there. The Cubans don't like to be told by the US how they must conduct their affairs, regardless of what the exiles in Miami may say.
  12. macrumors newbie

    :) I'm quite aware of Chavez' politics. Seems he's another who cannot learn from observation, much less a reading of history and economics.

    I'm always puzzled at the sycophants of leftist socialist regimes such as "Cuber". They refuse to see the reality of a repressive structure with government control of a socioeconomic system. The majority of the population is picking doodoo with the chickens, while 90 miles away even the poor folks are drinking pina coladas.

    Folks yapped about the "free medical care" in Russia and Cuba. Problem is, there's no medicine with which to care...

    Any country which has folks standing in line to buy toilet paper just doesn't have much going for it.

  13. macrumors 601


    i think there's a grave fallacy in judging a culture by availability of consumer goods. i have friends who've seen cuba and fell in love w/ its people. i've had positive, formative experiences in countries that have failed your consumer test.

    and what of the flipside? can the US do no wrong so long as there's a steady stream of TP?
  14. macrumors 68000


    Cuba has all kinds of problems, both of their own making and as a result of the embargo. Doesn't mean they will easily bow to the wishes of Uncle Sam.
  15. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    I know several people who have visited Cuba under the economic and cultural exchange program (I forget what it's actually called), and they were all enthralled with the country and its people, irrespective of their political leanings. I don't know precisely what to make of this. The country is poverty-stricken, the Castro regime is repressive and anti-American. By any measure, this is not a place Americans should enjoy visiting, but when it's allowed, they do. I heard some of the same things from some of the first American tourists in China during the '80s. Setting aside geopolitics, Americans and Cubans, Americans and Chinese, get along just fine. Which seems like a good argument for setting aside politics whenever possible.

    It also seems like an good argument for the US government preparing for the day when Castro keels over on his own account, instead of continuing to fight these old ideological battles.
  16. macrumors newbie

    Embargo? Who's observing said embargo besides the U.S.? Anything needed in Cuba is available to it--including U.S.-made items bought through Canada or Mexico. All it takes is a halfway-decent economy to get beyond bandaids and aspirin.

    zim, what does "consumeritis" have to do with toilet paper and medicine? Or vice-versa? Neither have anything to do with the merits of a people, or the inherent good qualities of any country.

    Lord knows I'm no advocate of the high-on-the-hog lifestyle of way too many U.S. folks. I'm pretty much of a minimalist, by and large. But folks oughta at least be able to eat as much meat as they want, if they want, and not have to do without ample supplies of the basics.

    For the record, about the only non-using stuff I own was bought on account of I figured I'd make a profit, later. Otherwise, my tools and "stuff" are pretty well worn--and paid for. :)

  17. macrumors 601


    you said:
    sounds to me like you're damning any country that doesn't have a ready supply of TP and enough cashiers to make the purchase speedy.
  18. macrumors 68000


    IJ, I went there in the mid-seventies and fell in love with the island and its people. It is a gorgeous place and a wonderful culture. Having said that it is also a tough place to live. By anyone's standards having one individual as the leader of your country for over 40 years is more than just problematic. 'Rat's observation about the economics of Cuba is to some extent true. It all has to be judged from where Cuba was before the revolution compared to the progress made since then. I think anyone who accepts the propaganda of either side is going to get a very distorted picture of the Cuban reality.

    For us in the US, I think we are such a prisoner of our own domestic politics, including the strength of the Anti-Castro Cuban lobby and the history of US Corporate dominance of the island I think we can't make a real change until Fidel dies. Hopefully, we won't go back to the days of the Sugar Cartel, mobsters, and the Platt amendment.
  19. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    I'm afraid we've never really escaped that history. It's managed to survived many presidencies, due in large part as you say, to the influence of the Cuban expatriate lobby. Given the results of the 2000 election, we can't expect any positive change on that score. It was a surprisingly minor back-story of the election, but I think the man in the White House owes his presidency to a Cuban kid named Elian Gonzales. Had the Clinton administration not decided to send this kid home to his father in Cuba, its seems quite likely that Gore could have won the handful of votes in Florida that would have put him in the White House instead of George W. Bush.
  20. macrumors 68000


    Other than the fact I think Gore did win Florida, I agree with you. Gore would have won with enough votes so there wasn't any question. There is no doubt the Clinton justice department's handling of the Elian Gonzales matter did hurt Gore in Florida even though Gore's weasaling on the matter was an attempt to placate the Cuban vote. Although we have Bush in the White House, I'm still glad the kid is home with his father.
  21. macrumors 68040

    Actually Cuba is part of the Axis of Evil. The Axis was apparently quietly redefined a while back to contain North Korea, Iran, Syria, Libya and Cuba.
  22. macrumors 601


    it'll never catch on -- breaks the rule of threes.
  23. macrumors 68040

    True, that's probably why I only see Bush or Powell mentioning the new Axis when they're overseas.

    I suspect that Syria will take over Iraq's old slot, at least until they're rubbed out and it's North Korea's turn.
  24. macrumors 68000


    I've got to say, the reluctance of Rumsfeld to commit adequate numbers of troops to Iraq is making more and more sense as the plans for invasion of other countries becomes more evident. Just how thin will our troops be spread in keeping this new empire in check? You know, the title "President" won't cut it anymore - how about going back to that old standby, Caesar?
  25. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Dan Schorr says he thinks they're being taken in the wrong order.


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