Backwards Switcher from Mac to PC?

Discussion in 'General Mac Discussion' started by coopdog, Apr 5, 2003.

  1. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Location:
    The Great Midwest
    #1
    I have a Mac G4 350 running Jag and it is bad for any kinda gaming, photoshop and it was murder tring to edit an hour and half of video a few weeks ago. So my Mac loving friend just bought and built a PC for about $600 with ATI 128 MB Graphics, 1.8 GHz AMD it is killer at everything! It maxed out every benchmark on this benchmark program we downloaded. Well I would still keep my G4, it's great for itunes and Jag oh so nice! But my dads laptop a Pentium 3 450mhz running XP Pro is so Slow... Epecialy in gaming area when is about the only time I use it since it takes about 3 min to start up. So I was planing on selling my dads laptop and using the $500 or so from it on buying a new PC it would be great for rendering video, GAMING, Photoshop and PC only stuff. But with all this news about new Apples comming out and IBM I would hate to waste my money on getting a good gaming PC when in a few months Apple drops prices and comes out with some great new computer. Can you advise me at all? The way i look at it is, XP is OK (no. it's bad compared to X) but a custom built PC the same speed as a Apple G4 would be about $600-$800 Vs. the apple $3000-$4500. Also on a PC later when new AMD's come out you can just swap out for a prosessor $90-$200, unlike apple where you have to get a XLR8 upgrade for up to or above $1000.

    Can you please advise me on what to do?
     
  2. macrumors 6502a

    macktheknife

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    #2
    Re: Backwards Switcher from Mac to PC?

    That's the sad truth about the Mac vs. PC war these days. My friend and I built a PC with a 1800 AMD Athlon with 1 GB of RAM for about $750 and it rocks. My old 800 MHz P3 Dell Inspiron was actually faster than my current 550 MHz TiBook even with twice the RAM (512 MB).

    Anyhow, I digress. If you *really* love gaming, then (I hate to say it) the PC is the way to go. Also, are you looking to buy a new laptop or desktop?
     
  3. macrumors 65816

    G5orbust

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    #3
    erm.. I hate to tell you... but the G4 was never introduced at 350 MHz. You probably have a B&W G3, which obviosuly is substantially slower and isnt even *supposed* to run Jag at all. So before swtiching to PC's, you should probably make sure of what you do have first.

    but, on the advise part dont buy anything now. AMD has bus speed increases and new, smaller, faster procs on their way; some of which will be based on the fabled 64 Bit Clawhammer. Intel also has the pending release of its newer chips, which supposedly bump bus speed to an unheard of 800 MHz (200 MHz quad pumped or 200 MHz x 4). Apple too hs the impending release of the 970, which will dramatically reduce cost when it moves to the smaller die size and when it gets settled in as the new processor.
     
  4. macrumors 65816

    NavyIntel007

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    #4
    Screw gaming! Quit wasting your time, be productive.
     
  5. macrumors 65816

    G5orbust

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    #5
    well, you cant exactly game on a 600$ PC anyways... unless its an insane bargain.
     
  6. arn
    macrumors god

    arn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2001
    #6
  7. macrumors 6502a

    kishba

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Location:
    Michigan
    #7
    HAHHAH


    i actually bought arn's old 350!!

    runs like a dream... not for video editing, but for most everything else...
     
  8. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Location:
    West Lafayette, IN
    #8
    I hate to say it, and I love my mac, but if you want to game go with the PC. Mac hardware isn't that much slower then PCs, but there are way more games out there for PC. The down side is that you'll have to go with a microsoft OS, but thats where the market is at. Sigh. I run two boxes, my powerbook and a PIII. When I want to game I always use the PC. I've found that I can keep the PC fairly up to date for about $100 or so a year. They're cheap, but oh my god does that box crash a lot! I never do anything but game on that box.

    As for running photoshop, my 1ghz powerbook runs it very fast. So I'm sure that the 970 will just smoke running photoshop.

    Quite frankly Apple needs to three things if they wants to compete in the gaming market.
    1) Speed is key for gaming, give me a chip that can at least run neck and neck with a 3+ ghz P4. Hopefully the 970 will fix this one *cross fingers*
    2) cost and upgrade ability needs to be improved. Frankly, I'd like to see the cube return with a few minor improvements. Give me a processor I can switch out for less then $300. I want one AGP port, and two PCI slots. Two 3.5' drive bays, and one 5 1/4" drive bay. AND it needs to start around $700 on the low end. Apple needs a simple box, that's cheap.
    3) More games! Apple needs to get more companies to port games to OSX. Or, get a company or two to get the must have game to only run on OSX.

    Even if the 970 does manage to run circles around Intel/AMD chips, the games just aren't there or are still being ported over. I'm still waiting for sim city 4K for OSX. One of these days....

    However, I do remember Steve saying after the 17" powerbook was released that good things were coming in the power macs too. So maybe well see the cube I want. (but I'm not hold my breath)

    So to sum up my rant, if you really want to game go with the PC. If you're going to be doing mostly photoshop and video stuff you may as well wait for the 970s. Or if you can afford it run both.

    Physicsnerd
     
  9. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Location:
    West Lafayette, IN
    #9
    From:
    http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_3x_special61.htm

    Maximize your productivity with the DimensionTM 2350 desktop, ideal for all of your basic home and home office applications!

    * Intel Pentium® 4 Processor 2.0GHz
    * 30GB Hard Drive
    * 17" (16" viewable, .27dp) E772 Monitor
    * FREE Ground (3-5 day) Shipping!
    * FREE 1st Bay CD-Burner - Online Only!

    $599
    After $100 Mail-in Rebate - Online Only!

    You can run most any game on that system. Apple needs to lower its prices, period.
     
  10. macrumors 6502a

    kishba

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Location:
    Michigan
    #10
    ok, i really hate this debate, but i'm going to jump in anyways.

    pc's can be cheaper. loads cheaper. but what good would it do to have a computer that doesn't fit with your personality or goals? i use a mac because it fits my needs. i don't play games. i make web sites and videos and listen to music. i like working with technology that's fun and interesting--not frustrating.

    for me the mac works and therefore wins. and, for me, i save up my money to get a decent computer.
     
  11. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Location:
    Madison
    #11
    I just went to Dell's webpage and looked at the deal above:
    First off the system for the price you quoted actually has a celeron 1.8ghz, to add the 2.oghz P4 you have to click customize.. the price then immediatley jumps to 1,100. Not t mention that it only has 256mb of ram and has an "integrated 3D accelerateor" With that so called video card you wouldnt be able to play virtually any of the games on the market. My roomate has a 1.8 AMD with 512 DDR and the GeForce 4 Titanium and still cant smoothly play some of the newly or soon to be released games.

    The bottom line is if you want a PC with everything you get in a Mac you will be paying very close to the same prices.
     
  12. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Location:
    Madison
    #12
    To prove my point I did a little configuring:

    Apple Power Mac dual 1.42
    -512mb exbandable to 2.0 gb
    -120 gb Hard drive
    - Top of the line ATI 97000 (available for order)
    - Superdrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
    --$2,699

    Dell Precision Workstation 3.0ghz.
    (if you are going to comapre a Power Mac to a Dell it cant be the Dell personal Desktop it must be their work orientated one as that is what a Power Mac is)
    -512mb exbandable to 4.0gb (but that would cost $3,000)
    -120 gb Hard Drive
    - ATI Fire GL (<-excellent card)
    -DVD-R/CD-RW
    -$3,440

    (neither have monitors)

    Now is the Dell faster? probable a little, and yes the Dell has hyperthreading (but that is one processor pretending to be two... The Mac actually has two), however, both are more then fast enough to run any game, video editting etc. So then you ask yourseld, is OSX worth the slight speed difference..... I beleive I hear a resonding YES!!.

    Paul
     
  13. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2001
    #13
    PCs are better for computer gaming right now due to the better selection of video cards and the availbility of more games to choose from.

    However, you're not going to get a really *good* gaming machine for under $1,000 (unless you make one yourself or find a really killer deal). Most have the integrated video, which won't even work with a lot of games due to the fact that it's just not powerful enough for true 3D acceleration (heck, one of the Microsoft XP screensavers I downloaded required a video card with 16 MB of Video Ram, this excludes 90% of your "low end" PCs right there for a screen saver!)

    So, PCs have the Mac beat in gaming right now. After some of the issues I've gone through with my XP Pro Compaq these last few weeks, I could never see myself doing any serious work on a Wintel anytime soon. But if all you want to do is game, then go for it. (I'm saving up for a GameCube, myself)
     
  14. macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #14
    this very simple, if you wanna game get a pc, if you dont want to game keep your mac. i have both. pc for games and mac for everything else. but remember, its not as easy as popping a new processor in that athlon mobo. chipsets change and things like that. but for the most part you can, just to let you know if you build a pc. i my pc is coming up on its year birthday, still going good, ill start looking at building a new pc when i have to start looking at the system specs for games again.

    iJon
     
  15. macrumors member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Location:
    West Lafayette, IN
    #15
    I'm sorry, but I don't think you followed my link. 1st off the system I was talking about only has 128mb ram. Second I went all they way to checkout and it did have a 2.0ghz P4.

    I know that dual 1.42 will run circles around this box. But that wasn't my point. My point is simply that you can get a very decent gaming box for between $500 and $1000. It might not run the very top of the line games, but it will run many games just fine. My real beef with apple isn't over midlevel and top of the line pricing, it's over entry level price and software availbility. If you want to compare top of the line systems I'll go with the powermac any day. I love my powerbook, and I do 95% of my work on it. But gaming is in that 5% left to the PC.

    physicsnerd
     
  16. thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2002
    Location:
    The Great Midwest
    #16
    My friend spent about $550 on a PC because his ibook is just to slow for most things.

    About $650 in parts from NewEgg.com got him
    1. A very nice Asus MoBo w/ 6 USB + firewire 8X AGP
    2. ATI 9500 W/128 MB His comp was getting 230+ FPS on quake with full detail and full detail and smothing on the ATI preffs

    3. 20 gig HD
    4. A nice case w/ 450 watts
    5. AMD 2200+ 1.8 GHz
    6. 512 DDR 2700 Ram
    7. CD-R at 52X
    8. Floppy
    9. Keyboard+Mouse
    10. and all the other parts

    We then did a test His new PC Vs. his G3 500 ibook

    We both loaded a large desktop picture 1280X1024 in Photoshop then did Guasian Blur to the max and both pushed return at the same time. The PC did it almost instantly and it took the ibook about 20 Seconds. Well I couldn't believe the frame rates he was getting! With Full detail in game and on the Card preffs! 230+ FPS is just crazy! Too bad most screens can only display about 70 FPS and our eyes too. Splinter Cell looks 100 times better than xbox and in some games the gameplay actually looks real.

    I benched marked my Dad's PC the one i try and game on now and it got less than one FPS on complex 3D. I benched it against a bottom of the line pc w/ 32MB video card and AMD 2000. The Graphics were 10,713% better on the the AMD 2000. :p :p I need a new PC!
     
  17. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2003
    #17
    Let's be honest here - you slapped on a really expensive professional gfx card on the Dell, and left the PowerMac with a consumer one. Not entirely straight, no?


    A more reasonable comparison would be this system:

    3.06 GHz P4 w/ HT
    120 GB HD
    512 MB PC1066 RDRAM
    Win XP Pro
    16 X DVD ROM
    4X DVD+RW Drive
    ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 128 MB RAM

    Which comes out at 2269$. Quite a difference. Also, when I try to configure the Dual 1.42 to the same spec, I come up with a price of $3,058.00.

    Regards / GulGnu

    -Stabil som fan!
     
  18. macrumors 604

    MacsRgr8

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    #18
    Well, he's (G5orbust) kinda right, you know.
    He said "never introduced at 350 Mhz". The G4 was "introduced" at 400 Mhz and up .... well, we all know the rest of the story (tnx Motorola): beginning of end of Apple and speed :(
    Was this not a premiere? Having to downgrade the products? Going from 400, 450, 500... to 350, 400, 450 because of production problems?
     
  19. macrumors 604

    MacsRgr8

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2002
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    #19
    Right, back on topic. (same old story)

    Speed per buck: get a PC
    Games per buck: get a PC

    Grace per buck: get a Mac
    Happiness per buck: get a Mac
    Better OS per buck: get a Mac
    Rumors per buck: get a Mac

    TOTAL LOVIN' COMPUTING EXPERIENCE (no, not XP) = Macintosh!

    C'est tout.
     
  20. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Location:
    PA
    #20
    I love these people with these plans that are totally unfesable. First you want a Cube, the cube was designed to be a elegant machine, small footprint like nothing on the market. Then you say you want all this expandablity well from what you describe you want a powermac. Basicly what i am seeing here is a box that A) would lose money and B) Go completely against alot of Apple's design principles.

    As for the price of the processor, it's not Apple's problem and they can do little about the price of the chips. Talk to the companies that make the upgrade cards for christsake.
     
  21. macrumors 604

    iJon

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    #21
    get a shuttle if you want all if that stuff.

    iJon
     
  22. macrumors 65816

    G5orbust

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    #22
    hmm... you say you can run games on that rig. Integrated graphics have a tough time with that. I mean, if you are running Starcraft or playing the Sims, thats perfectly legit. But, we are talking real games here. No sissy (not starcraft; but the sims and the like) games like that. We speak of frame rate busters like UT2k3, Unreal 2, Sim City 4 (believe it or not, it requires a high performence PC to run), Max Payne and games of that nature. Lets see you run Windows XP + a game stealing the max possible memory your system can handle and you are seeing a substantial slow down. You cant even run the shaders in those games w/o a good, dedicated graphics chip. Lets see you buy that 599$ Dell and run any decent game. You'll see then that your system will soon become like molassas going uphill instead of like water flowing down a waterfall in terms of speed.

    Sorry, but your arguement is flawed.
     
  23. macrumors 6502a

    etoiles

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Location:
    Where the air is crisp
    #23
    I think that is a bit harsh. I am not sure what kind of memory and AGP this system has, but I guess you should be able to get at least 256mb of ram and a nice graphics card (GForce4 128m) for about $200...which should do the job for most games.
     
  24. macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    #24
    I don't get this if you want to game buy a console, they are a damn sight cheaper smaller quieter and have all the games you could want. If you want a computer then yeah get a mac. If you get a shop bought PC and WinXP says 'Unmountable Boot Volume' you've lost everything on the HDD. Yes the recovery console can fix it but OEM machines generally don't have the recovery console.
     
  25. Guest

    caveman_uk

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Location:
    Hitchin, Herts, UK
    #25
    Agreed. Show me a PC that costs £129 (about $200 - the UK price of an Xbox) that can play as many decent games. Sure it's behind the curve on a top gaming rig but a graphics card for one of those costs more than a xbox.
     

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