BAR win Button Battle

[iGav]

ooooooooooooh.... this could be interesting, Button has already said he won't drive for BAR Honda next season regardless of what happens, and as such he may be stripped of his Superlicence by the FIA forcing him out of F1!!

Williams has already said he won't contest the outcome, and he's known to be tight when it comes to his drivers... so it's unlikely he'll buy out BAR to gain his services!!

So then... the way I see it, it leaves a few possibles, Button refuses to drive (BAR can't make him) and takes voluntary 'Gardening' leave for a season until he can join Williams for 2006!! The FIA strip him of his Superlicense and force him to sit out 2005 and possibly longer!! or he just swallows his pride and drives a BAR Honda next year!!

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=31405

Thoughts?

 

[edesignuk]

Thoughts?

I'm really surprised, and Button is in the ****

 

[andym172]

I think there are quite a few more twists and turns yet to come on this one.

Dave Richards is an extremely shrewd operator. He may be annoyingly smarmy, but I like the guy and reckon he'll get what he wants. Whether he wants Button to drive for BAR next year, or has somebody else up his sleeve and wants compensation off Williams I do not know.

What is for sure is that Ecclestone would not want Button to take any time out of the sport. Lets say Coulthard doesn't find a seat (he'll be smiling at todays decision ), Button is our only real hope of any success in F1. Given that there MAY not be a British GP in 2005, I can't see Ecclestone wanting to again frustrate one of his/F1's largest markets any more. Therefore I reckon he'll move hell and earth to make sure Jenson is in F1 next year.

My prediction is that there will be a British GP and that Jenson will still be at BAR. Stranger things have happened...

 

[iGav]

I'm really surprised, and Button is in the ****

I'm surprised that Button decided to leave in the first place, BAR Honda have been clearly the 2nd best team all season, and have shown genuine pace at pretty much all of the races.

I know he said that he believes that Williams offers him the best chance of winning the title, but I don't think that will happen next season when I still expect the BAR Honda to have the legs of the Williams.

Also with Honda expecting to break the 1000bhp barrier next year... and we all know that when Honda does come to play in F1 they don't f**k about, they win multiple championships (think 1986-1991) and in Dave Richards they have a team Principal who knows how to win (think Prodrive and the Works Subaru WRC Team) that staying at BAR Honda for 2005 offers him a better chance for challenging for race wins.

It's amusing to think though that all the teams and drivers seem to totally ignore the one thing that makes Ferrari and Schumacher so dominant... loyalty and stability.

 

[evoluzione]

It's amusing to think though that all the teams and drivers seem to totally ignore the one thing that makes Ferrari and Schumacher so dominant... loyalty and stability.

um, isn't that two things mate?

 

[Counterfit]

um, isn't that two things mate?

Indeed it is

Anyways, this bodes well for DC.

 

[JFreak]

the real question is: what will mika do

 

[AmigoMac]

the real question is: what will mika do

Stay at home and watch TV Terve!

 

[iGav]

um, isn't that two things mate?

whoopsie daisey... hahahahahahaha...

looks like Button is going to drive for BAR Honda next year.

 

[virividox]

hes being a baby!!!

 

[iGav]

the real question is: what will mika do

He'll likely go to DTM, he tested a Merc DTM car last week. He also recently said (after the DTM test last week) that he will never drive at F1 level again.

After the spate of high speed accidents (Schumacher Jr, and big testing accidents) this season has just reinforced his opinion that the risks involved are too great.

He's got nothing to prove... only everything to lose by coming back to F1, if he races in DTM though that'd be cool... I'm really getting into DTM... quality racing series!

 

[JFreak]

never say never - remember, prost was not supposed to come back either, but the possibility of beating senna once more forced him to come back

 

[iGav]

never say never - remember, prost was not supposed to come back either, but the possibility of beating senna once more forced him to come back

Never say never indeed...

But Prost came back in a car that was atleast 2 seconds a lap quicker than any other car, had won the Championship in record time the year before and even then he admitted he struggled and lacked motivation. Mika won't have the option to come back into the best car.

Lauda did it too in 1984 to win the WDC... again though it was in clearly the best car.

But never say never indeed... stranger things have happened.

 

[evoluzione]

i'd like to see mika in a rally car, them fins on ice....

 

[JFreak]

i'd like to see mika in a rally car, them fins on ice....

you haven't noticed mika drives the lapland rally every year, has driven it forever...

 

[whooleytoo]

So then... the way I see it, it leaves a few possibles, Button refuses to drive (BAR can't make him) and takes voluntary 'Gardening' leave for a season until he can join Williams for 2006!! The FIA strip him of his Superlicense and force him to sit out 2005 and possibly longer!! or he just swallows his pride and drives a BAR Honda next year!!
Thoughts?

Probably just means more money for BAR - I doubt they can/should/will try and force Button to drive for them. But if they let him go now, they can squeeze Williams (or whoever) for more money.

 

[evoluzione]

you haven't noticed mika drives the lapland rally every year, has driven it forever...

oh yeah? haha, i've missed watching rallies on tv since i moved to the US. i've yet to find it on tv, except for about an hour a week when the wrc is on, but even that's on at weird times.

 

[iGav]

Probably just means more money for BAR - I doubt they can/should/will try and force Button to drive for them. But if they let him go now, they can squeeze Williams (or whoever) for more money.

Button has already confirmed he'll drive for BAR next season... I don't think he could afford to sit a year out on gardening leave, when we've got talents such as Liuzzi and Rossi (possibly) entering in 2006 making seats even more competitive.

I reckon he'll do alright next season at BAR, certainly better than Williams... Honda just seem to be moving into that sweet spot with their engines now, exactly like they did in the mid-late '80's and that's worrying for all the other teams!! Ferrari included!!

i'd like to see mika in a rally car, them fins on ice....

He did drive the McLaren F1 (the proper F1 not the roadcar) in the snow once... crazy finns

I still think DTM is the most likely candidate, with WRC on the decline with the possibilty that Ford will pull out next season, and PSA deciding whether it's worth having both Citroen and Peugeot competing against one another... rallying might not be a viable option at all.

I still think F1 is out of the question though... the Williams seat will either go to Pizza Boy or DC, out of those I'd choose the jaw... he's not bad at developing a car, and that's what Williams really needs, they've suffered this year and missed Schu Jr.'s input big time (Montoya is crap at set up and dev) and Pizza Boy isn't a driver who you can rely upon to bring the car home in the points.

We'll have to wait and see though... after silly season this year anything is possible!

 

[whooleytoo]

I reckon he'll do alright next season at BAR, certainly better than Williams... Honda just seem to be moving into that sweet spot with their engines now, exactly like they did in the mid-late '80's and that's worrying for all the other teams!! Ferrari included!!

I didn't know he'd confirmed that he'll drive.

BAR certainly are the better option at the moment - you just have to look at the sudden improvement of Button and Sato to see that - but there is the question of whether BAR can maintain it. Certainly Williams can (and, indeed, Honda too) but I'm not sure about BAR as a team.

After all, look at my (beloved) Jordan in '99, and look at them now!

 

[iGav]

I didn't know he'd confirmed that he'll drive.

BAR certainly are the better option at the moment - you just have to look at the sudden improvement of Button and Sato to see that - but there is the question of whether BAR can maintain it. Certainly Williams can (and, indeed, Honda too) but I'm not sure about BAR as a team.

After all, look at my (beloved) Jordan in '99, and look at them now!

Yep.. he and Dave Richards have been talking about their relationship and how it's improved etc etc and how they need to focus on next season now.

I think BAR Honda will do well... there are rumours that Honda might be wanting to take over the team from BAT when the tobacco ban comes in, they did consider the option of their own team in 1998 and went so far as to have a car designed and built but in the end decided against it. Now that Toyota has it's own team though, I think a bit of national pride is at stake!

As for BAR, it's easy to forget that it's being run by one of the most successful guys in world motorsport with Prodrive and Subaru WRC, Dave Richards is bang up their with Ron Dennis and Frank Williams, and I think we've seen exactly what he can do in 2 seasons he's run the team since replacing Pollock, I certainly wouldn't rule him out.

As for Jordan... they have suffered, which is a shame because the team has a pedigree going back 2 decades, F1 has just moved to another level and unfortunately Jordan just haven't moved forward with it.

It's puzzling because you've just got to see what Sauber are doing to prove that you don't need to be manufacturer backed to be competitive.

 

[whooleytoo]

Yep.. he and Dave Richards have been talking about their relationship and how it's improved etc etc and how they need to focus on next season now.

Still, I can't help wondering how team morale is going to work out. Would you bust a gut to help a guy who was doing his best to leave the team?

I think BAR Honda will do well... there are rumours that Honda might be wanting to take over the team from BAT when the tobacco ban comes in, they did consider the option of their own team in 1998 and went so far as to have a car designed and built but in the end decided against it. Now that Toyota has it's own team though, I think a bit of national pride is at stake!

Certainly Honda have the credentials, but if they take over, it's not really BAR any more is it? I'm sure if Button was confident of them taking over, he'd be stuck to that seat like.... I dunno, something sticky?

As for BAR, it's easy to forget that it's being run by one of the most successful guys in world motorsport with Prodrive and Subaru WRC, Dave Richards is bang up their with Ron Dennis and Frank Williams, and I think we've seen exactly what he can do in 2 seasons he's run the team since replacing Pollock, I certainly wouldn't rule him out.

True. Though he has the advantage over some other teams in having a huge budget and one of the best engine manufacturers on board.

As for Jordan... they have suffered, which is a shame because the team has a pedigree going back 2 decades, F1 has just moved to another level and unfortunately Jordan just haven't moved forward with it.

It's puzzling because you've just got to see what Sauber are doing to prove that you don't need to be manufacturer backed to be competitive.

I wonder if Eddie's personality is a part of this. Jordan have had some of the top backroom talent (Gascoigne, Michaels etc.) but lost them all. It's astonishing how quickly they went back from the good years '97 to '99.

 

[MOFS]

Yep.. he and Dave Richards have been talking about their relationship and how it's improved etc etc and how they need to focus on next season now.

I think BAR Honda will do well... there are rumours that Honda might be wanting to take over the team from BAT when the tobacco ban comes in, they did consider the option of their own team in 1998 and went so far as to have a car designed and built but in the end decided against it. Now that Toyota has it's own team though, I think a bit of national pride is at stake!

As for BAR, it's easy to forget that it's being run by one of the most successful guys in world motorsport with Prodrive and Subaru WRC, Dave Richards is bang up their with Ron Dennis and Frank Williams, and I think we've seen exactly what he can do in 2 seasons he's run the team since replacing Pollock, I certainly wouldn't rule him out.

As for Jordan... they have suffered, which is a shame because the team has a pedigree going back 2 decades, F1 has just moved to another level and unfortunately Jordan just haven't moved forward with it.

It's puzzling because you've just got to see what Sauber are doing to prove that you don't need to be manufacturer backed to be competitive.

I dunno about BAR doing well next year. As much as I loved this year to watch Button come so close to winnging this year (Nurburgring and Monaco anyone), Ralf Schumacher seemed to comfortably outpace him at Suzuka, and we all know Ralf is a bit of a dunderhead compared to his bro'! Plus Buttona and Suzuka really like Suzuka. Ah well, guess we'll see on Sunday...

Btw - who dya think's gonna get the Williams drive for next year? Seems a one year only deal, what with Button seemingly confirmed for 2006. Pizzonia? Coulthard says he should get it. Personally, if I was FW, I'd be wary of a guy that can crash a car on the formation lap!

PS: Don't you think that Ferraris main weapons are loyalty, stability...and nice red cars?!

 

[iGav]

Ralf Schumacher seemed to comfortably outpace him at Suzuka, and we all know Ralf is a bit of a dunderhead compared to his bro'! Plus Buttona and Suzuka really like Suzuka. Ah well, guess we'll see on Sunday...

Suzuka is abit of a Ralf Schumacher track though... they've got history

Btw - who dya think's gonna get the Williams drive for next year? Seems a one year only deal, what with Button seemingly confirmed for 2006. Pizzonia? Coulthard says he should get it. Personally, if I was FW, I'd be wary of a guy that can crash a car on the formation lap!

I'd go with DC... Pizza Boy has a habit of not finishing races.

Thing with DC is he's rumoured to be an excellent development driver, even when Mika was in the team. And that is exactly what Williams needs, 2 drivers that can get points but can also develop the car. Schu Jr. can do this... Montoya can't develop or set the car up, hence why we saw Williams drop right off the pace whilst Schu Jr. was out, and when he gets back in the car it's back near the front of the action again as opposed to being mid-pack like with Montoya/Gene/Pizza Boy.

 

[iGav]

Still, I can't help wondering how team morale is going to work out. Would you bust a gut to help a guy who was doing his best to leave the team?.

Well they're professionals... it's in both of their interests to do well. If Williams have yet another poor year, and BAR Honda are pushing Ferrari for the title in '05... would Button still want to go with Williams?? I'm not so sure.

If Button has a poor year... will that affect his stock to the teams??

Certainly Honda have the credentials, but if they take over, it's not really BAR any more is it? I'm sure if Button was confident of them taking over, he'd be stuck to that seat like.... I dunno, something sticky?

Well team would essentially still be BAR by everything other than name... just bankrolled by another company, much like how BAR are really Tyrrell!! heheheh

Button said he wanted to go to Williams because he see's that as his best bet for winning the championship, I can understand why... Williams are multiple title winners, but... they've been no where near since they last won it in '97, and if anything seem to be slipping back into the '99-'00 form not a championship challenging one. Not to mention if he would beat Webber?? I'm not so sure that he would.

True. Though he has the advantage over some other teams in having a huge budget and one of the best engine manufacturers on board.

You still have to peform though... Pollock did an amazingly poor job at BAR to the point where he almost bought it crashing down.

But then look at McLaren, Williams and Toyota this season... all have bigger budgets and top manufacturer backing and all have failed miserably to get anywhere near BAR. I think that says alot for Richards abilities as a team principal.

I wonder if Eddie's personality is a part of this. Jordan have had some of the top backroom talent (Gascoigne, Michaels etc.) but lost them all. It's astonishing how quickly they went back from the good years '97 to '99.

It's hard to imagine that at the end of the '90's they came close to winning the championship and now they're fighting Minardi's. Something has gone very wrong somewhere.

Pay-to-Drive drivers is probably a contributing factor as well, picking someone because they bring handy $$$ as opposed to actually being able to drive is hardly the greatest of moves, even though they need the cash... they don't get the feedback and development from an experienced driver to improve their performance and attract more sponsers. Vicious circle.

 

[russed]

i think it is good that button has to drive at BAR next year. as he has done so well this year i will help BAR to develop futher and possibly create another team that could atleast challange tems next year as they will attract more funding etc so giving better research and such.

also jenson will be able to become a better driver as the team will revolve around him and even though he may get an ego that is bigger than it is already he will be able to get people concentrating on him hopefully creating the next british world champion!

also going to williams would be a bit evil for bar as they have helped him more than williams (apart from giving him his first drive in f1 - which is obv quite important!) they have stuck with him while willams and renault got rid of him when he wasnt doing so great.

also bar appear to be a better team than williams at the moment!

well that is my opinion!