Batman v Superman, anyone see it? (possible spoilers)

[JoshMKB24]

There's a lot here, but Superman as a character has a number of problems in film. His powers are often overclocked in media. It's generally accepted that Superman cannot outrace the Flash and is not capable of light speed travel. If Metropolis were New York and Gotham Chicago, I would expect Superman to take at least a half hour to get there.

Also, with regards to Batman finding Superman's mother: Batman is, above all things, the smartest of the Justice League members. He would recognize Superman immediately and devise a way to make that happen.

Yeah, didn't it start out he couldn't even fly and thats where the whole leap over a building in a single bound came from? I know his ability to fly was added later.

Haha I like the comparison of city distances I'm not sure, but if anything I always thought Gotham and Metropolis were like LA/NYC as far as distance.

 

[rhett7660]

I saw the movie:

Ben Affleck was very smart in how he did the role of Batman. He wasn't trying to compete with Christian Bale on who's a better Batman but he took the more advanced military weaponry/Technological route as well as an older more mature side of the character. I give him high rating for this!

The movie critics were pretty much on the spot on why they gave it bad reviews. The story was all over the place and had scenes that didn't make sense. For a movie that's about 2.5hrs. long it fell short of the details. The directing was horrendous thanks to the nepotism of Deborah Snyder giving Zack Snyder the job for the movie. He turned a potentially good story into a directing that was an overly confusing/not suspenseful or mysterious type of confusing either.

As usual, love the DC characters more than Marvel but WB never ceases to disappoint with their usual rushed movies.

Didn't they take like three years to make this movie???? They announced in 2013 at Comic Con.......

 

[BeefCake 15]

Didn't they take like three years to make this movie???? They announced in 2013 at Comic Con.......

You would think that would make the movie better....Sadly Snyder is signed for the rest of the Justice League series but on the flip side Affleck is directing the Batman movies.

 

[rhett7660]

You would think that would make the movie better....Sadly Snyder is signed for the rest of the Justice League series but on the flip side Affleck is directing the Batman movies.

Oh no are you series. Ugh!

But we are talking about Snyder.

 

[JoshMKB24]

You would think that would make the movie better....Sadly Snyder is signed for the rest of the Justice League series but on the flip side Affleck is directing the Batman movies.

Yeah, wasn't it even delayed a year because they went back to rework a bunch of it? Haha, I mean I found this movie entertaining, but it was not a particularly good movie.........I can only imagine the hot garbage it must have been if this was the better cut!

Also, I am happy that Affleck is going to be directing the Batman movie. To be honest, I probably will wait for the Justice League movies to hit home video..........but the Batman movies with Affleck as Batman as well as directing I will happily go see.

However, if like most Affleck movies are about Boston and he has a Southie accent.........I will give up when Batman starts talking like a Southie

 

[iLog.Genius]

Imagine if WB kept the original release date the same as Captain America: Civil War. I would imagine it would have been an absolute slaughter in terms of expectations. Right now BvS is still expected to make money but I'm sure they were banking on Avengers money which I don't think they'll get close to.

 

[JoshMKB24]

Imagine if WB kept the original release date the same as Captain America: Civil War. I would imagine it would have been an absolute slaughter in terms of expectations. Right now BvS is still expected to make money but I'm sure they were banking on Avengers money which I don't think they'll get close to.

There were reports it needed to make 800m to be a success and they're well on their way. They broke 500m in 5 days according to Variety. It was a great move by them though to not try to go head to head with Civil War.

 

[iLog.Genius]

There were reports it needed to make 800m to be a success and they're well on their way. They broke 500m in 5 days according to Variety. It was a great move by them though to not try to go head to head with Civil War.

I don't follow box office performance because there's so many factors and channels but $800 million seems on the low end and would mean they just made a bit more than break-even? I get that BvS is supposed to be the official jump off for the DCCU but anyone who is happy with $800 million for this type of film is in some serous denial. Man of Steel made around $670 million, when you put 3 of DC's top heroes into one movie and only manage to make an additional $130 million, I'm sorry, if WB is happy about that, they must have had low expectations because it was going to make money on name alone.

I'm not trying to downplay the $800 million because that's still a lot of money, but with all things considered, the type of movie, what WB is trying to do with their own universe and using 3 top comic book properties of all time, I don't think I would be happy if it fell short of $1 billion especially when Marvel can take B-Characters and gross $1.5 billion.

Side note: For comparative purposes, Deadpool is currently sitting at $750 million and that's with being banned from China. $800 million for BvS seems like the worse-case scenario, happy to barely make it out alive.

 

[rambler358]

New Batman and it looks like he already has some movies lined up in the future. I too have also been hearing he is pretty much the best part of the film!

Wonder Woman was the best part of the film IMHO.

 

[rhett7660]

Wonder Woman was the best part of the film IMHO.

Quite honestly, she is actually what I really want to see! I am more excited for her solo movie than BvS. I am glad to hear she doesn't disappoint!

 

[twietee]

Quite honestly, she is actually what I really want to see! I am more excited for her solo movie than BvS. I am glad to hear she doesn't disappoint!

Agreed. Gal Gadot would be the only reason to watch it for me.

 

[JoshMKB24]

I don't follow box office performance because there's so many factors and channels but $800 million seems on the low end and would mean they just made a bit more than break-even? I get that BvS is supposed to be the official jump off for the DCCU but anyone who is happy with $800 million for this type of film is in some serous denial. Man of Steel made around $670 million, when you put 3 of DC's top heroes into one movie and only manage to make an additional $130 million, I'm sorry, if WB is happy about that, they must have had low expectations because it was going to make money on name alone.

I'm not trying to downplay the $800 million because that's still a lot of money, but with all things considered, the type of movie, what WB is trying to do with their own universe and using 3 top comic book properties of all time, I don't think I would be happy if it fell short of $1 billion especially when Marvel can take B-Characters and gross $1.5 billion.

Side note: For comparative purposes, Deadpool is currently sitting at $750 million and that's with being banned from China. $800 million for BvS seems like the worse-case scenario, happy to barely make it out alive.

Oh they want more than that for sure, but 800m is what Warner has been talking about as far as being a success. They have about 400m tied into production and marketing so they would need AT LEAST 800m to consider it a success. I guess I worded it badly my 1st post, they want more than 800m but they need at least that to consider it successful. The Marvel movies average around 860m, so I'm kind of assuming that is why they bench marked 800, but I have really no idea.
[doublepost=1459430298][/doublepost]

Quite honestly, she is actually what I really want to see! I am more excited for her solo movie than BvS. I am glad to hear she doesn't disappoint!

I saw some exit poll Warner did at screenings and something like 30% said the only reason they came to see the movie was because of Wonder Woman............kind of makes me wonder how big of a smash hit that movie will be when they release it next year?

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

Spoiler:

Thank you, @Mac'nCheese, for your explanation!

 

[iLog.Genius]

I saw some exit poll Warner did at screenings and something like 30% said the only reason they came to see the movie was because of Wonder Woman............kind of makes me wonder how big of a smash hit that movie will be when they release it next year?

If the reception of her in BvS is as good as I'm reading, Wonder Woman should be a huge hit. We've seen Superman and Batman before in various roles, but rarely get to see Wonder Woman, especially a modern Wonder Woman until now. I know I'm excited to see how they handle her solo movie.

 

[JoshMKB24]

If the reception of her in BvS is as good as I'm reading, Wonder Woman should be a huge hit. We've seen Superman and Batman before in various roles, but rarely get to see Wonder Woman, especially a modern Wonder Woman until now. I know I'm excited to see how they handle her solo movie.

It will be interesting for sure. This is the 1st time they've made a female super hero movie, besides the old Supergirl movie.........and this will be the 1st one pushed as a blockbuster if I'm not mistaken? In some ways it is a lot like Deadpool where they're breaking new ground in the super hero movies. I bet Marvel is watching how it goes and would consider releasing their own female super hero movie within the Marvel Universe.


One thing I'm wondering is where does the X-Men franchise go after this though? I know it's sort of off topic, but it sort of fits into the Marvel universe. Fox has the rights to make X-Men movies, but I know that Marvel would LOVE to have them back in the fold.

Since the X-Men movies by Bryan Singer at this point are up to the 80s and now no Wolverine, wouldn't this be the perfect time for Disney to try to get those rights back and sort of reboot it within their own umbrella?

 

[iLog.Genius]

It will be interesting for sure. This is the 1st time they've made a female super hero movie, besides the old Supergirl movie.........and this will be the 1st one pushed as a blockbuster if I'm not mistaken? In some ways it is a lot like Deadpool where they're breaking new ground in the super hero movies. I bet Marvel is watching how it goes and would consider releasing their own female super hero movie within the Marvel Universe.

Marvel already announced plans last year to do a Ms. Marvel/Captain Marvel film scheduled to be released sometime in 2019. As much as I want to say that Marvel will be looking to see what WB does with Wonder Woman in 2017, Marvel has already got their cinematic universe formula, nothing Wonder Woman does is going to affect how Kevin Feige approaches and executes Captain Marvel.

One thing I'm wondering is where does the X-Men franchise go after this though? I know it's sort of off topic, but it sort of fits into the Marvel universe. Fox has the rights to make X-Men movies, but I know that Marvel would LOVE to have them back in the fold.

Since the X-Men movies by Bryan Singer at this point are up to the 80s and now no Wolverine, wouldn't this be the perfect time for Disney to try to get those rights back and sort of reboot it within their own umbrella?

I think most fans would prefer that to happen but with the huge success of Deadpool, I don't think Fox has any intention of negotiating with Marvel Films to do something with the X-Men cinematic universe now that they're going to expand with Deadpool and Cable with the hopes of doing something with X-Force.

 

[c8rlo]

saw it twice, Thurs. opening and then Friday the next day...

 

[D.T.]

Side note: For comparative purposes, Deadpool is currently sitting at $750 million and that's with being banned from China.

... and it's rated R which greatly reduces the box office.

There were reports it needed to make 800m to be a success and they're well on their way. They broke 500m in 5 days according to Variety. It was a great move by them though to not try to go head to head with Civil War.

Batman vs. Superman had a massive 81% Friday-to-Friday drop-off (including the Thursday night pre-sales, without it's still 71%). I had read that the Fri-to-Sun drop-off opening weekend was 50% greater than the biggest Marvel drop of the same duration. That's enough of a potential financial concern that WB might seriously reconsider some release dates, budgets, etc.

I mean, don't get me wrong, not being a Debbie Downer, just trying to realistically look at the business end.

 

[JoshMKB24]

... and it's rated R which greatly reduces the box office.



Batman vs. Superman had a massive 81% Friday-to-Friday drop-off (including the Thursday night pre-sales, without it's still 71%). I had read that the Fri-to-Sun drop-off opening weekend was 50% greater than the biggest Marvel drop of the same duration. That's enough of a potential financial concern that WB might seriously reconsider some release dates, budgets, etc.

I mean, don't get me wrong, not being a Debbie Downer, just trying to realistically look at the business end.

Yeah, it was a huge drop off from week 1 to week 2, way beyond the typical 50% drop for sure. I don't think it'll alter their plan too much........this is just my speculation and I have nothing to support this claim, haha but I believe there is a gentleman's agreement type deal in Hollywood. I think a lot of it is out of self interest, but I think in general they plan release dates around each other rather than try to compete head to head.......that way everyone wins as far as the studios are concerned. I can't remember off the top of my head but I think a lot of the scheduled releases don't really run up against any Marvel movies going forward

 

[iLog.Genius]

... and it's rated R which greatly reduces the box office.

Exactly. No matter how many people try to defend BvS critically or financially, it's not looking good for WB when you break everything down. Again, the amount of money that BvS is taking in is a lot. But WB is only making the same amount as Deadpool when Deadpool is a way smaller comic book property, is rated R and didn't even release in China. There is no scenario where WB is happy that their A-team can only perform as good as their opponents B-team.

 

[AustinIllini]

Exactly. No matter how many people try to defend BvS critically or financially, it's not looking good for WB when you break everything down. Again, the amount of money that BvS is taking in is a lot. But WB is only making the same amount as Deadpool when Deadpool is a way smaller comic book property, is rated R and didn't even release in China. There is no scenario where WB is happy that their A-team can only perform as good as their opponents B-team.

I mean, it really doesn't matter. We were having the opposite conversation 8 years ago (TDK is still the best Super Hero film ever, IMHO) and if Age of Ultron is any indication, this medium is tired and drawn out. Warner Bros. is fine, and unlike Marvel, they actually own the rights to all of their properties.

 

[iLog.Genius]

I mean, it really doesn't matter. We were having the opposite conversation 8 years ago (TDK is still the best Super Hero film ever, IMHO) and if Age of Ultron is any indication, this medium is tired and drawn out. Warner Bros. is fine, and unlike Marvel, they actually own the rights to all of their properties.

We're slowly getting to that point where we may be getting tired of comic book movies. I still enjoy them, but I know I was more excited when Marvel announced they were going to start the MCU. We still got movies like Deadpool and Civil War looks like it's going to continue the Captain America success so we're still getting good, quality movies.

With respects to owning the properties, I think not owning everything actually helps Marvel than it does WB. It just means Marvel Studios has to work that much harder because they're primarily working with second-tier characters that don't really have a following or aren't engraved in pop culture - Marvel can't just release a movie and expect people to show up based on the property, the film has to be good and I think Marvel has largely delivered in that regard.

For what it's worth, even if we only have a few more years before the fatigue truly sets in, Marvel is going to have the advantage because everything they've done has been leading up to Thanos and Infinity War and if for whatever reason the genre tanks, I think we're all going to keep going to watch up to that point and be satisfied we got to witness a remarkable event in terms of building a cinematic universe from a relatively small studio with lesser known properties.

 

[Roller]

Yeah, didn't it start out he couldn't even fly and thats where the whole leap over a building in a single bound came from? I know his ability to fly was added later.

Haha I like the comparison of city distances I'm not sure, but if anything I always thought Gotham and Metropolis were like LA/NYC as far as distance.

From Wikipedia: His early powers were described as "superhuman strength that allowed him to lift a car over his head, run at amazing speeds and leap one-eighth of a mile, as well as an incredibly dense body structure that could be pierced by nothing less than an exploding artillery shell." They obviously increased considerably over the years.

Also from Wikipedia: "In The World's Greatest Superheroes newspaper comic strip, a 1978 Sunday strip shows a map of the east coast of the United States; the map places Metropolis in Delaware and Gotham City across Delaware Bay in New Jersey, with the Metro-Narrows Bridge linking the two cities. A similar map appeared in The New Adventures of Superboy #22 (October 1981), with Smallville shown within driving distance of both cities (in post-Crisis comics, Smallville was officially relocated to Kansas). 1990's The Atlas of the DC Universe also places Metropolis in Delaware and Gotham City in New Jersey."

I haven't seen BvS yet, but probably will when it's available for rent. I'm curious to see if it's as bad as the critics say. But I'm more interested in the Wonder Woman movie, which is filming for a June 2017 release. Gal Godot has gotten a fair bit of praise, despite the doubters who said that she was miscast. Robin Wright's involvement is also a plus.

 

[AustinIllini]

The main reason Marvel really has the upper hand is they are owned by a better company than DC. Disney continues to have success managing legacy franchises, from Marvel to Pixar to Winnie the Pooh. They have the best promotion, the best project oversight, and the best ability to hire cast and crew.

 

[JoshMKB24]

We're slowly getting to that point where we may be getting tired of comic book movies. I still enjoy them, but I know I was more excited when Marvel announced they were going to start the MCU. We still got movies like Deadpool and Civil War looks like it's going to continue the Captain America success so we're still getting good, quality movies.

With respects to owning the properties, I think not owning everything actually helps Marvel than it does WB. It just means Marvel Studios has to work that much harder because they're primarily working with second-tier characters that don't really have a following or aren't engraved in pop culture - Marvel can't just release a movie and expect people to show up based on the property, the film has to be good and I think Marvel has largely delivered in that regard.

For what it's worth, even if we only have a few more years before the fatigue truly sets in, Marvel is going to have the advantage because everything they've done has been leading up to Thanos and Infinity War and if for whatever reason the genre tanks, I think we're all going to keep going to watch up to that point and be satisfied we got to witness a remarkable event in terms of building a cinematic universe from a relatively small studio with lesser known properties.

I do sort of wonder what happens in a few years.........as you are saying and a lot have said, there is fatigue starting to set in. I think we will continue to get superhero movies going forward, but I think instead of like 4 or more per year, we're probably going to see like 2. It also would be interesting to see them start to do original ideas. I think original ideas is the only way they can really save the comic book films. I know everyone, including myself enjoys them doing old comic themes, but I think all the superhero films could use some fresh ideas and stories that no one has ever seen before. Even something like they did with The Dark Knight series where they used some ideas from existing story lines, but ultimately went a different direction than what the original material did.