Blu-Ray or HD-DVD?

Discussion in 'Macintosh Computers' started by Thanatoast, Jan 7, 2005.

  1. Thanatoast macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #1
    Has anyone heard which way Apple may be leaning? I really don't know much about the two formats, except that Blu-Ray stores more and is gaining ground on HD-DVD. Any opinions on which direction Apple should take? Who is their supplier now, and which format do they support?
     
  2. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #2
    Pioneer & LG (?) – past suppliers to Apple – seem to be getting behind Blu-Ray if that means anything at all...
     
  3. combatcolin macrumors 68020

    combatcolin

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    #3
    If ever there was a clear cut defination for the term "wait and see" the format for DVD 2 must be it.

    I don't know why they can't just meld the formats together - that how the first DVD standard was created.
     
  4. Thanatoast thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Thanatoast

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    #4
    The thing that gets me is that we got the DVD standard only a decade ago. Do we really need a new hardware format this soon? How about some planning ahead this time.
     
  5. chameeeleon macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Isn't Quicktime H.264avc the base of the HD-DVD though? I think that, at first, neither format will be widely adopted because everyone will be afraid to touch either for fear of picking the wrong one. But the thing is both discs have the ability to store a DVD-quality version of the movie on them that would play in regular DVD players, so people that own either can still watch them on their Combo/Superdrive Macs (albeit in a lower quality version).
     
  6. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #6
    Yes, we do. Consider yourself lucky. Some products are actually obsolete technically before they ever make it to market. DVD is not one of those. It has had a good run. It has a few years to go. However, conventional DVD, DVD-/+R, DVD-/+RW, and DVD-RAM are not up to the task of recording and storing high-definition video. Do you sacrifice these functions because it is too soon for a new optical storage media? Or, do you surrender to reality and introduce a new medium to handle the new functions?

    Planning is not an issue in this case. When DVD was being planned, the high-definition formats under consideration were analog. Analog HD would have required at least four times the storage capacity of the current high-definition standards. You have to understand something important: Technological advancements don't follow a schedule. Technology advances as a consequence of a lot of hard work and financial investments.
     
  7. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #7
    And those investments will be recouped, one way or the other...

    Never underestimate the power of the studios/majors to repackage content and sell it to us all over again... it happened with vinyl & VHS.

    There'll be a huge market for high-definition 'remastered' versions of Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, etc.
     
  8. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #8
    Indeed H.264 codec is what is going to be used for HD-DVD. :)
     
  9. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #9
    *cough*DVD-RAM*cough* ;) :)

    If Apple moves to Blu-Ray they will then change to HD-DVD for purposes that many of the hollywood big hitters who voted for HD-DVD rather than Blu-Ray some studios voted for Blu-Ray however Sony always has rotten luck with *cough*BETA MAX*cough*MemoryStick*cough* There are more however lets not go there. :)
     
  10. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #10
    I have viewed HD content and all I have to say is WoW, its like the actors are standing in your living room. :)

    Too bad HD is not backwards compatible so DVD can be played on the standalone players. :(

    And Hollywood always will pinch every dollar from the consumers pockets, hope there have a trade a DVD movie for a HD-DVD movie discount. :)
     
  11. maxvamp macrumors 6502a

    maxvamp

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    #11
    Now, Now, lets not forget BetaCam and the Compact Disc.

    JVC this week announced a process that would make a three layer disc. One layer Blu-Ray, One HD-DVD, and One single layer DVD. Talk about covering your bases in one disc!!

    Max.
     
  12. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #12
    Huh! Hollywood producers want to sell old movies and TV shows to paying customers, not promote one technology over the other. The Blu-ray/HD-DVD dispute has nothing to do with the Beta/VHS dispute. The dispute is Blu-ray's to lose. All it takes for it to win is to get Blu-ray drives into the hands of computer users and Blu-ray players into the hands of consumers before HD-DVD hits the shelves. HD-DVD is slated to be available at the end of 2005. This dispute will be settled by paying customers. Given a choice, computer users--particularly Windows users--will step over HD-DVD for Blu-ray. At 40% less capacity per disk, HD-DVD won't stand a chance. With the customer-base using Blu-ray, Hollywood will provide content in the format.
     
  13. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #13

    Hollywood studios are already starting to pick sides. Why? Probably because the companies behind each tech made deals w/them. The studio's can't play "wait and see" because no one is going to buy a new player if their is no content to play on that player. Studios don't want to spend 2x the money releasing to both formats so they are going to take sides and promote their choice as the best until the bitter end.

    And this is very simular to the VHS/Beta battle in the early 80's. Beta was the better quality format but it lost (peception is more important than reality when it comes to product sales). HD-DVD has a leg up because it will, last I heard, hit the market a year before Blu-ray. Also, I've read that a company is working on a way to imbed an SD layer of video inside an HD-DVD disc. So you could, assuming it works as advertised, buy the HD-DVD disc and it will play the SD layer in current DVD players and the HD layer in HD-DVD players. That's a selling point if I've ever heard one.

    IMO Hi-def DVDs aren't going to take the public by storm the way DVDs have. The difference between VHS and DVD is huge. Much, much better quality, more bang for your buck (i.e. special features), a cool, sexy modern technology. The step from DVDs to hi-def DVDs is going to be an evolution, not a revolution.


    Lethal
     
  14. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #14
    And lets throw in MD discs in there too. ;) :)


    That is crazy indeed, have a link. :)
     
  15. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #15
    Blu-Ray is already on sale in Asia/Japan as usual same as Sony's MD and all they other technologies. :rolleyes:

    HD-DVD has already been demoed at CES with movie content due as soon as a stand alone player hits the market.

    Maybe the Studios will play both sides, however it will not go well with consumers.

    Remember DVD-RAM it was first on the market then got replaced with DVD-R/RW, since DVD+R/RW was having a tough time making it to market and now they have DVD±R/RW so in due time. :)

    We shall see since Blu-Ray is already available so HD-DVD makers are kick starting to release to market by end of Q1 2005. :)
     
  16. maya macrumors 68040

    maya

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    #16
    Have you even seen movies in HD. DVD SD look like VHS when compared to it. :)

    I don't think that the studios will release they content on both formats, since the music industry have problems with audio on DVD and that is still a mess. :(

    Sony always seems to be catering to the Asia/Japan market IMHO, and this will be no different you can bet HD will win out. It already have the name edge and people much rather have an HD-DVD than a Blue-Ray DVD, then again that is just my opinion on the names. :)

    HD-DVD players are due to release in Q1 2005 with movies release around the same time frame while Blue-Ray is already released in Asia/Japan as of Nov 2004....with local movies, I still am favouring HD-DVD. :)
     
  17. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #17
    You pay too much attention to hype an too little to the realities of the marketplace. If Blu-ray players are in the hands of enough consumers, you can be assured that Hollywood producers will provide recorded content for them. It is true that some companies have endorsed HD-DVD and others endorsed Blu-ray. However, these are not exclusive commitments. Let me put it this way: Disney backs Blu-ray and Viacom backs HD-DVD. Do you honestly believe that Viacom will abdicate the Blu-ray market to Disney if Blu-ray eclipses HD-DVD? If HD-DVD tops Blu-ray, do you believe that Disney will pick up its marbles and go home? Even the hardware manufacturers will play either camp, irrespective of their prior commitments. Afterall, Sony and Zenith sell VHS VCRs now.

    This is the myth of VHS/Beta, but the reality is quite different. Beta lost to VHS for two major reasons. Until the porn industry pioneered the recorded movie market, VCRs were used almost exclusively to time-shift broadcast TV shows. VHS could record 2 hours, whereas Beta could only record 1 hour. Over the years, there were several revisions--not all of them backward compatible--to Beta. However, VHS could always record longer than Beta. The other major reason is that Beta was sold by Sony and Zenith whereas you could get VHS from darned near everyone else, including RCA, GE, Panasonic, JVC, etc. As for Beta's technical superiority, it is true that engineers loved Beta. However, people watched VCRs on their TVs, not their oscilloscopes. On a 1975 model TV set, VHS looked better. Although it is not the same Beta that we had in 1976, Beta found its niche as the analog medium of choice for professional camcorders.

    As others have pointed out, here you are just plain wrong. Blu-ray is already on the market in Japan. HD-DVD is still in development. HD-DVD recorders are not expected until the end of 2005.
    Again you are misinformed. Both Blu-ray players and HD-DVD players will play existing DVDs. There is simply no issue of compatibility with your existing DVD library. It is protected in this dispute.
    When your facts are wrong, it is understandable that your conclusions are also wrong. Do the math. I think that you will find that high-definition optical disks represent about the save technical leap over DVD that DVD represents over VHS.
     
  18. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #18
    You misunderstood what I said. I don't think the studios will release for Blu-ray and HD-DVD AT THE SAME TIME. Once one format starts to become the standard (assuming one does and we don't just end up w/players that play everything) then everyone will start releasing content on that platform.


    I should have been more specific, I was refering to when a player will be on the shelf of your local Best Buy here in the US.

    I was talking about using your current DVD player to play next gen DVDs. If you can buy a next gen disc that has both SD and HD content and play it on your current DVD player (thus not having to drop a $1000 on a next gen player) then that will give that format a good advantage.

    Go back and reread my comments about this. The difference in image quality is only partly why DVD took off the way it did. Image/audio quality, bonus content, the cool/new tech factor, the current economic state of the US, and the fact that people were sick and tired of VHS all added up to the DVD revolution. You also have to look at what else was happening w/consumer electronics and video. Video cameras w/firewire, consumer level editing apps, and DVD all came together and ushered back in the age of "home movies" that died when consumers switched from film to videotape.

    Anyway... Besides more space/higher quality images what do next gen discs have to offer? I'm not saying next gen discs are going to flop, I'm just saying don't expect the same "boom" that DVD had. It will be more like the move from SD to HD TVs (well, hopefully better). Better quality alone is not a big selling point if people are happy/content w/the quality of what they have. Heck, the biggest buzz in the music indunstry centers downloading music that is pretty inferior to CD quality.


    Lethal
     
  19. gangst macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    So how will Blu-Ray or HD-DVD affect everyone who is backing up DVD's?
    And re-writing them?
     

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