Born Into A Fixed Society

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Squilly, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. macrumors 68020

    Squilly

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    #1
    I put a lot of thought into this, and really can't determine if we're "truly free". I"m basing this thread around the US, so I'll probably be using democracy a lot. We live in a democracy where we can make our own decisions, although we're born into something completely different. You're born knowing nothing, you die knowing nothing. In the middle of that time frame, you learn, make money, get a job, start a family, and socialize. Wouldn't you agree that that's the normal American lifestyle? Forced to get an education (whether you decide to drop out or not), forced to get a job since the world resolves around money, forced to obey the laws that create the fixed mix. I'm just trying to get other peoples' perspectives on this as well. Do you think we're born into a fixed society? I'll clarify points if needed.
     
  2. macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #2
    The structures you describe were set into action intentionally and unintentionally by generations long dead. I think the social structure reflects our interests generally well, but is horribly implemented (I blame that on people reaching a level of comfort and satisfaction, so no longer feel the need to violently claw back control from the elite).

    Social mobility is difficult to impossible to some modern democracies, and real change and progress is slow as our democracies are shades, not models of direct democracy in action, (UK has an unelected Monarchy who can interfere, and an unelected political 2nd House for example).

    The only way society can really evolve fluidly is to have people vote for issues regularly, and do away with politicians - move towards a technocracy.
     
  3. macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    Why do you single out the US ?

    Do you really think it's any different in other countries ?

    At least, in the US, you are not tied to a certain cast, like for instance India.

    -t
     
  4. macrumors 603

    mobilehaathi

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    #4
    OP lives in the US, and clearly feels comfortable talking only about what he has experienced.

    I dare say that India is a bit more complex than this oversimplification. As for being tied to a caste in the US, try going up in abject poverty, and see how far you can climb.
     
  5. macrumors 68030

    Arran

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    #5
    Are you lamenting the fact that one can't just decide to divorce oneself from society and be a hunter gatherer from now on? Or is it the lack of social or economic mobility? Or something else?

    Maybe an example would be more helpful. What is that you want to do that you feel you can't?
     
  6. thread starter macrumors 68020

    Squilly

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    #6
    It's difficult to imagine since I don't live in the society I hope for. One without barriers, allowing yourself to choose your own destiny. ie. not just choosing your career.
     
  7. macrumors 68030

    Arran

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    #7
    I'm confused by "choose your own destiny". What destiny would you choose for yourself in this ideal world? Give me an example.
     
  8. macrumors 6502

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    #8
    My choice destiny would be to live forever as the King of everything. :D
     
  9. macrumors 68030

    Arran

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    #9
    Sorry. "King of Everything" is already taken.

    But you can come live in my kingdom if you want. :)
     
  10. macrumors 6502

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    #10
    OP was right; you're just trying to limit my choice and setting barriers.;)
     
  11. macrumors 68030

    Arran

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    #11
    I think we just discovered a new universal law :)

    Shall we split the Nobel 50/50, or does the OP get some credit too? Always wanted to go to Oslo!
     
  12. thread starter macrumors 68020

    Squilly

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    #12
    I get at least 40% credit ;)
     
  13. macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #13
    Have you ever seen the movie "Into the Wild"?

    Interesting take on society and what one wants

    I know I have pondered when I have ever submitted myself to the laws of the land and if it is something you can break away from. Can you? I don't think it is possible as every pice of land is under some jurisdiction

    With that said, I do recognize the benefits to living in a society and prefer it than being on my own
     
  14. macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #14
    Watched it last week, pretty decent. We have a pattern in the UK of people moving to the city for work, then moving back out to the country when they can afford it. At the same time outdoors and back country areas are full of city folk at the weekends.

    I guess it's the same phenomenon that drove the guy in that movie, but less extreme.
     
  15. macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    I don't get your point.

    Do you really think it's harder to climb out of "abject poverty" in the US, than in most other countries ?

    E.g., do you really think someone born in "abject poverty" in Russia, China or somewhere in Africa has a greater chance of rising out of theses circumstances than people in the US ?

    I don't think so.

    -t
     
  16. macrumors 68030

    Arran

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    #16
    It's getting much harder than it used to be:

    Read more: http://www.economist.com/node/21564417
     
  17. macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    I will not dispute that it's getting harder, and that the US is not the great equal opportunity country anymore that it used to be.

    BUT: just because it got harder doesn't mean it's impossible.

    I believe that part of why people feel it's gotten harder is because people also have unrealistic expectations and much more of an entitlement mentality than they used to have.

    -t
     
  18. macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #18
    And then you have the press who are as equally obsessed as surprised that a regular, semi-working millionaires daughter can marry into royalty :rolleyes:.
     
  19. twietee, Jan 27, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013

    macrumors 68040

    twietee

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    #19
    [​IMG]

    But honestly, did you just realize we're not living in Utopia? I'd like to ask you, since your post sounds fairly fatalistic, is there a time in mankind you'd prefer to be born into? Because I really can't think of one which gave so much opportunities to so many people. So, it's not like everything is messed up, but if you prefer Determinism, I recommend giving Schopenhauer or Nietzsche a good read. :D
     
  20. thread starter macrumors 68020

    Squilly

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    #20
    Yes, I'm aware but we don't control ourselves. Everyone always says there are two things you must do in life: die and pay taxes. Death is inevitable at the moment but born to pay taxes is uncalled for. Being able to choose what YOU want to do, where YOU want YOUR money to go should be your decision.
     
  21. macrumors 65816

    citizenzen

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    #21
    I believe you do get to choose your own destiny.

    Every moment of our lives we have the opportunity to choose how we react to our perceptions of the world around us, and to the thoughts, emotions and feelings percolating in our mind and body.

    You are focusing on the wrong barriers.

    Break down the one's in your own mind and the ones outside will no longer matter.
     
  22. thread starter macrumors 68020

    Squilly

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    #22
    I could easily go into detail on that. Drive a nice car, sure I'd like that. Someone else causes a car crash. Outside barrier, coinciding with me.
     
  23. macrumors 68030

    Arran

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    #23
    But if you didn't pay taxes, then you'd have to do everything for yourself. So you'd be stuck in another tyranny: The tyranny of having to deal with the minutiae of everyday life, all by yourself. No thanks.

    Note that I deliberately avoided the question of whether we get value for money from our taxes. That's an entirely different topic. One that sadly tends to derail other interesting discussions.
     
  24. macrumors 68040

    twietee

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    #24
    With all due respect, but that is the most stupid thing I've read in a while.

    But I agree, democracy is not the perfect form of government, although I never heard anyone claim that - it is just the best, realistic compromise mankind came up with until now - and there were/are plenty of different ones. It also has to be controlled, checked, adjusted, defended at any time, since it is not a kind of 'perpetuum mobile' - once achieved and it will stay forever.
     
  25. Guest

    eric/

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    #25
    Well that's not true. Business doesn't need taxpayers to exist.
     

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