Bullies, beware!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by stubeeef, Jun 19, 2005.

  1. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #1
    Link

    Well sounds like the highschool version in the US. Sad how these things end, no one wins. That is the lesson here. Want to taunt someone, you may lose too. Beware.
     
  2. FredAkbar macrumors 6502a

    FredAkbar

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    #2
    It'd be nice if this would make people understand that when Columbine-type things happen, the problem isn't that the person had access to weapons, it's that the bullying took place (and led the person to do such an irrational act) in the first place. Gee, let's do like we did with Columbine and just sit here wondering how he had access to weapons (disregard the fact that he's a soldier) rather than actually targeting bullying. I guess we'll have to ban weapons from the army now too.
     
  3. AoWolf macrumors 6502a

    AoWolf

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    #3

    I am sorry are you sure you live in California?

    ;)

    This is very sad while indeed I can imagine he felt he had no other choice as his superior officers were the ones causing the problem. Still though in the end I think he is should take most of the blame, you just don't kill people because over stuff like this.
     
  4. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #4

    Good point. But the world is now ruled by the bullies. And they make the rules.
     
  5. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #5
    Chip, Chip, Chip. Don't drink the coolaid of bitterness from the poly forum. This is about bullies and anger, not Kim what's his name in N Korea, or Saddam, or the GOP, or Howard Dean.
     
  6. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #6
    It does happen here in the US...

    How many times have we heard of a kid taking a gun to school to protect himself from bullies.

    I still like the article from not long ago, when the Canadian teacher made the bullies wear "Bullies are Losers" helmets.

    How the parents of the bullies talked about them being the "victims" and having all the mental trauma. :rolleyes:

    Usually the true victim is punished when they fight back, because people hardly ever want to believe their little angel is a bully.
     
  7. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #7

    Stu, Stu, Stu. This was not about politics, but life in general. It was about the bullies that own companies and manage the shops and offices. Is was about the bullies that drive our youth and adults to school and workplace anger and violence.

    It seems to be you that may have had a taste of the coolaid on this one. :)
     
  8. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #8
    How true. It is those that are bullied that are the ones asked to be nice, and ignore their tormentors. Just as Stu failed to realize that we have entered a world that the bullies control the weak, more so than ever before. It is shrugged off on multiple levels. Or as with Stu, trying to find other meanings in words - instead of looking at the school and workplace violence that bullies have created.
     
  9. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #9
    Ok, ya got me! :p
     
  10. kiwi-in-uk macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    Very true, and this is how it happens (The Age, Australia, 21Feb03) (free membership required) ... the first few paragraphs are ... (sorry about the very long post)

    "Is the boss a psychopath?

    Not a murderer, a vicious criminal or rapacious scam-meister. But we know the type. Oozing charm and charisma but with no emotional depth; more sizzle than steak. These are the ones who are manipulative and ruthless enough to do whatever it takes and stick the knife into anyone standing in their way. With their finely honed political skills, sharp timing and chameleon-like abilities, they thrive on risk, chaos and upheaval. And they are cold-blooded enough to claim later that they did nothing wrong.

    Research done by Dr Robert Hare, emeritus professor of psychology at the University of British Columbia and a New York-based colleague Dr Paul Babiak indicates the psychopath usually seduces and takes over in five stages.

    First, comes the entry phase, in which the psychopath charms the hiring team into selecting him or her for the job. Then comes the assessment phase. Here, the psychopathic employee identifies the potential support network of Patrons (those who will protect and defend the psychopath), Pawns (those who can be unwittingly manipulated into using their power in service of the psychopath's aims), and Organisational Police (staff in such control functions as audit, security, human resources who might get in the way). Stage three is manipulation: the psychopath works the patrons and pawns, building the influence network through close and intense one-on-one relationships and at the same time moving up the organisation. The next stage is confrontation. Individuals no longer deemed useful discover they've been wiped, relegated from close friend to Patsy. Two factions start forming: influential supporters (Pawns and Patrons); and powerless detractors (Patsies and Police). Finally, there's ascension. That's when all that planning and manipulation pays off - the patrons are betrayed, the boss is shoved aside and the psychopath moves in.

    Babiak and Hare, who consults to the FBI on serial murders and child abductions, are developing the B-Scan, a 107-item tool to assess managers, executives, high-potential employees and succession candidates.

    Hare's internationally recognised psychopathy Checklist, or PCL-R, is used in criminal justice systems for identifying psychopaths.

    Hare himself estimates that psychopaths account for only about 1 per cent of the general population.

    But he says there would be a higher proportion in such areas as business, politics, law enforcement agencies, law firms, religious organisations and yes, the media. ..."

    An interesting article.
     
  11. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #11
    I think of the kind of bullieing here as violent, with name calling, and teasing. Business bullieing is not the same to me. Contol is a different issue, many of the classic bullie types are actually controlled by others from time to time, or have really bad home lifes. Businesses that that compete hard and strive for success within the legal bounds, don't seem bullie to me.
     
  12. kiwi-in-uk macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Businesses that compete hard are not the same as individuals in those same businesses who damage others' careers & well-being by remorseless (i.e. without remorse) behaviours that have no purpose other than to further the interests of the perpetrator (that is, the behaviours produce no benefit other than to the actor). [Phew! a long sentence!] There are non-violent bullies in the business world and they have just as much effect on their adult victims as the violent (and non-violent, come to think about it) bullies have on their school-mates.

    [BTW, Stubeeef, did you end up getting that S2? I got one a couple of weeks ago and it is great.]
     
  13. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #13

    Hey, Stu, I hope that you know that I wasn't trying to "bully" you. :)
     
  14. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #14
    Ok, I understand the premise here about people at work within a business! (lightbulb is dim but on).

    Working on the S2 today, sitting in a hotel in wisc. shopping on the internet. What batteries did you get? 2300 mah or 2500 or 2700? how big and how fast a memory card? PM if ya feel like it!
     
  15. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #15

    You evidently have not witnessed or been the the brunt of workplace bullying. The phrases may be different, but the intent is the same To place a verbal, physical, emotional, and mental control over the "victim". Whether we are talking the school yard or the office, the effects are the same. They have a legal name, a hostile work place, in the adult world. Many are not aware of this, since "hostile workplace" is used in sexual harassment suits generally.

    Add to that many an HR department are also bullied by their management. And that the climate today is that we are not valued workers, but a resources that can be replaced. The "good old boy" network today is nothing but a group of bullies that are surrounding themselves with those that they want and and those that they can bully to get the job done.
     
  16. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #16
    Chip, I was posting my eureka about this while you were sharpening your bully skills on me, stop chip, just stop it! I can't take this anymore........ :eek: :p
    I was thinking of businesses not managers within them...I understand your point. I would think that most of us here are smart and witty enough to handle the ones at work. Atleast till we move on.
     
  17. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #17
    So that was the Fuji S2?
     
  18. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #18
    LOL, think of it as "revenge of the nerds" maybe.
    :)

    For some of us here maybe on your second point. But there are those that live in fear of their jobs being eliminated, or out sourced that allow for bullying by their bosses. I think this is a greater problem than we tend to hear about. For talking honestly about the issues, exposes a weakness that could be exploited by the higher ups. With "Right-to-Work" laws and the such the average worker has little job security today.
     
  19. stubeeef thread starter macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #19
    I agree with the facts of employment. I was a Dir of HR for 2 years, 400+ employess and a $h1tty company. I have seen it, and dumped a few managers for it.
    Canon S2 IS, the newest sweet toy to blow money on.
     
  20. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #20
    Loss of life is very sad. Private Kim must have been under terrible pressure. There was a period of time that I was the victim of bullying, but just didn't have it in me to take revenge. Always was afraid that I would suffer even more. Sadly Private Kim didn't belong in the military. At least in my case with age the bullying stopped. From what I know of the enlisted ranks, I can empathize with him. :(
     
  21. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #21

    You raise a point that we seemed to have forgotten. And that is the military aspect of the situation. Here in the US, the popular belief is to break one down in order to build one up. The fallacy in that is some once broken down, remain down and have little worth of themselves or life in general. And that ends up with the tragic results we read about now.
     
  22. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #22
    Hopefully you were one of the HR managers that stood up for the employees, when problems came up. All too often in the DC area the HR people rally around those that have the power to save their own butts, as long as lawsuit is not in the wind.

    Oh, you meant that S2! That is a great digi cam. My bosses decided to stop carrying the S1IS as they awaited the S2IS. Bad choice in my opinion. But evidently Canon was not going to price protect the older S1IS's; so what you bought them for was what you would have to live with.
     
  23. kiwi-in-uk macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    (Briefly off topic).
    I got one set of 2300 - they seem to last very well. Getting another set this week, probably higher capacity. Got a 256 / 66x and a 512 / 80x (Sandisk II). They seem to handle the 640x480@30fps movies quite well. Again, will buy another card this week - prob 1 Gb.

    (Back on topic).
    [Chip said "... some once broken down, remain down and have little worth of themselves or life in general ..."]
    Yes - I have seen people who are victims but - because of their circumstances - are not able to move on. I have watched them become very disillusioned and, although fortunately none resorted to violence, dissociate from their jobs (I.T., where they need to be involved), their colleagues, and in a couple of cases from their wives and families. Tragic - they were talented people.
     
  24. Nuc macrumors 6502a

    Nuc

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    #24
    people need to suck it up!

    We can sit here and debate all we want about people getting bullied and the actions they take. I say in most cases smile and move on. Kids these days are babied to much, if someone constantly pesters you beat the crap out of them or turn the other cheek, don't kill them....

    I was pestered just about all grade school years 3-8, I was the new kid and was generally better at sports than most of the kids. So finally I got pissed and kicked one kids butt, he started crying, etc. The fight really didn't solve anything but it made me feel better...

    Now unless my life or families life is in danger, I'll just move on with a smile or say something witty that makes them look like ***holes.. Words are a lot more powerful if conveyed properly.

    Kids need to earn up to there own problems and deal with it in a responsible matter. Everyone has a conscience they just need to follow it!

    Flame on!

    Nuc
     

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