Bush againgst blacks and latin prefernce at MSU

Discussion in 'Community' started by Kid Red, Jan 15, 2003.

  1. Kid Red macrumors 65816

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    #1
    Afirmative action at Michegon State university would give minorities preference and Bush is againgst that.

    Why? Haven't whites had the advantage long enough? The fact is, without programs like this, a lot of minorities would be left out in the cold. This is Bush showing his true racist redneck colors and he's taking it to the supreme court so i hope this gets a lot of press as the Rebuplicans tried to paint themsleves a color blind image this past election. This just another reason for me to hate Bush.
     
  2. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

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    #2
    Why is this so bad? Isn't it just as bad to give the minorities preference over the majority as it is the other way around? I don't think whites (who are not really much of a majority anymore anyways) are any less entitled to things like college than hispanics and blacks. Whites certainly shouldn't be looked over because there are black people applying. I think the best thing that could happen in this case is for race not even to be supplied by college applicants. If the approval board doesn't even know what color the applicants skin is, it can't affect their decision. Bush is exactly right in opposing this, the white people are far more persecuted today than the so-called minorities. Equality is the goal, not driving the majority into the ground so that the minorities don't have to feel so bad about themselves.

    JW
     
  3. Cursor macrumors 6502

    Cursor

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    #3
    I agree. I think race shouldn't even come into play. Let the best applicants win. It should be based on grades, activities, and scholarship; not race. Affirmative Action does not work. Even California, who started the Affirmative Action programs have more or less scrapped them for being unfair.
     
  4. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #4
    the question you have to ask yourself here is: are you a reparationist, or an equalist? if you truely want racial issues to be a thing of the past, you can't demand reparations in any form, that just prolongs things. Now i'm not saying we should just forget what's happened in the past and move on, but what we should do is continually learn from it and move on.

    and yes, giving minorities preferencial treatment on purpose is a form of reparationism. All you're doing is saying that since they did it to you, you can do it to them. Which actually *justifies* what they did to you in the first place...

    :)
    pnw
     
  5. diorio macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    That is exactly it. If one demands programs that favor minorities, you are a reparationist, and being racist against whites. Why not let the best applicant win? Why base it on rase or color? By promoting programs that favor minorities, you are promoting racism.
     
  6. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #6
    Afirmative action is BS.

    (everyone else pretty much covered th bases, but I still wanted to add something to the thread :))

    Lethal
     
  7. sturm375 macrumors 6502

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    #7
    I saw this on the news the other day. Here is what is wrong with U of M's way of doing things. They use a point based system where, if I remember correctly, 150 pts get you in. A perfect SAT score nets you 15 points, while being a minority nets you 20 points.

    So you can be the smartest in your school, get a perfect SAT, and the minority that got zip on the SATs is already 5 pts ahead. This to me does not encourage working hard for a good life.
     
  8. Durandal7 macrumors 68040

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    #8
    I think that the very policy (Michigan State's) is insulting to blacks and hispanics by implying that they are too dumb to get into college on their own merit.
     
  9. Choppaface macrumors 65816

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    #9
    most colleges will give any student who can demonstrate difficulties in school a break. If students mention financial difficulties, shortcomings of their public school, dangerous living environments, family problems etc etc the admissions officer will usually give the applicant a break. while this might be a relatively fair system, it takes time to figure out how difficult things were for a student. it's a lot easier to just use a point system, and incorporate into it an affirmative action program. though it's probably not as fair, at least it gives some recognition to those minority students who suffer from these harsh living conditions. if they removed racial consideration in this point system, it wouldn't be fair for the these students. either way, with or without the 20 points, it's not fair, but the admissions game isn't a fair game either. indeed they could do a better job, but nobody has really found the best way to efficiently process thousands of applications and still get the most of out each app. the UC system will take on more than 30,000 apps this year. that's >30,000 one-to-two-page essays, sets of SAT/SATII scores, activity lists, and transcripts to read, and they all need to be processed in a few months. Harvard will get ~18,000, and their app has a lot more stuff, including two teacher recs. though it's nice to debate about affirmative action, admissions departments are also very concerned about efficiency, so they often need to go with what's practical.

    Michigan's weighting is pretty high, though... it seems a bit of an extreme. Most colleges don't offer that big of a boost.
     
  10. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

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    #10
    Well, people shuld be reconize by their social security number andgrades and that is it!!!

    I read an article about people with color names do not receive phone calls from companies as people with white names.

    So... I do not know, I'm too tired today.:eek:
     
  11. zarathustra macrumors 6502a

    zarathustra

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    #11
    They showed on CNN the point system, and they can award 20 points for racial background and 20 points for social shortcomings. That's 40 points - if someone is a minority and poor.

    If you come from less then average income white family (maybe living in an urban area, combined income of $40.000), you probably get 0 points, even though you put up with same/similar living conditioins as minorities.
     
  12. zarathustra macrumors 6502a

    zarathustra

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    #12
    Color names? You mean Brown, White, Black, etc.? That has got to be one of the weirdest assumptions.

    There is a lot of names (for minorities) that were derived from their owners' names once they were freed, that's why Jackson, Brown, Smith, etc. is so prevalent in both black and white communities. If you are referring to hispanic names, yes, you could be correct.

    Still, you shouldn't fart in a room and leave it hanging - what was your point with the above post???
     
  13. cubist macrumors 68020

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    Muncie, Indiana
    #13
    That sounds like an advantage to me. I'm sick and tired of telemarketers. Sign me up for one of those color names. How about Frank Fuschia?
     
  14. Roger1 macrumors 65816

    Roger1

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    #14
    A perfect SAT score nets you 15 points, while being a minority nets you 20 points.


    I believe the numbers were 12 and 20, in that order
     
  15. Juventuz macrumors 6502a

    Juventuz

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    Binghamton
    #15
    You're correct, 12 for perfect SAT and 20 for being a minority.

    American University in DC was like this, I applied there for graduate school as did another student in my program in undergrad. I'm white and he was black. I had a higher GPA and received a better score on my GRE's.

    He got into American University and I didn't. I spoke to someone from the college and he mentioned to me how they favor minorities because when the policy was first instituted there were little minorities in the program. When I applied minorities were the majority of students in the program. I didn't worry about it because I got into George Washington as well (unfortunately I was wait listed at Georgetown :().
     
  16. DrGrip84 macrumors newbie

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    east lansing, MI
    #16
    NOTE: If you got a perfect score on your SAT, you got into MSU...simple as that.

    Reverse discrimination? GET OVER YOURSELF! As a white man, I will never know what it is like to be a minority. Knowing that I have certain advantages that most non-whites do not, I am more than willing to give those people the benefit of the doubt in such circumstances. If you're white, and got turned down by a school, you have a better shot at getting accepted to another similar university than, say, an African American.

    Plus, I got in to MSU w/o a perfect SAT/ACT score :cool:
     
  17. alset macrumors 65816

    alset

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    #17
    Re: Bush againgst blacks and latin prefernce at MSU

    Oh, come on! What chance have white males had for advancement in this country? Really! What with all the tariffs on the slave trade, many of our ancestors hardly made a living!

    While we're at it, what is it with women these days, thinking they have a right to vote? We'll show them!

    (No - I am not serious - Don't flame me!)

    Dan
     
  18. dabirdwell macrumors 6502

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    Oklahoma
    #18
    It is a complicated situation to have limited educational resources and to have the social divisions that exist in the United States.

    Most of the problems addressed by social programs in the US (including those addressed by affirmative action) are in actuality addresing a symptom of a failure in one of two policy areas, education or health care. Education and health care should be the primary provisions of the federal government for citizens. Everyone should be able to go to a physician and be treated; everyone should be able to get a real education, one based on critical thinking and not memorization.
     
  19. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    iowa
    #19
    I'll say this. And i don't mean to stir up another sensitive topic, just have to give my true point of view. I belong to a group of people that's still discriminated against; it's quite legal to do so in an overwhelming majority of cities and states across the USA. I'm not allowed to marry my partner of 2 years, not even entitled to legal recognition. I can get fired for it, with no other reason. I'm banned from selling or donating plasma or blood. And i face social stigma in nearly any situation, to the point where there have been times where my life itself was in danger. But these things are very slowly changing; eventually with any luck they'll be gone. I equate the current situation of homosexuals with the past struggles for equality of both different races and women, and tho this seems rather severe to some people, i assure you it's not to us. My point is, after the discrimination is gone, i certainly won't want any affirmative action for gay people. Just because other people make my life more difficult, and will probably continue to do so beyond the point where it's illegal to do so, doesn't mean i want the government to make my life easier by putting me ahead of anyone else. It just slows down the process whereby the whole thing is not an issue in society anymore. If i want equality under the law, i want just that, nothing more. People can hold on to their ignorant ideals as long as they want, i'll have protection under the law for the most part. All i stand to gain in affirmative action is alienating the people i'm trying to get to accept me, making people upset who would have not been otherwise. It just doesn't make sense for anyone to want to gain a little in the present while sacraficing a great deal in the long run. Time, not affirmative action, is our best weapon against bigotry.

    pnw
     
  20. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #20
    well, I said I wasn't coming into these threads any longer, but....

    Look, this is the problem with Affirmative Action. It breeds racism. At UofM for example they are wanting to give 20 points to students that are black for admission consideration. You only get 12 points for a perfect score on the SAT. So being black is more important than being perfect on the SAT. That is crazy. So, the students there will look down, either knowingly, or unknowingly on black students. It causes hate. It causes predjudice!

    AA doesn't work, it never will, and it is wrong in the form that Michigan is using it. That is a quota. Not AA. How about equal opportunity instead. How about giving minorities opportunity as children to better themselves as schools that are better than the innercity schools through vouchers? Wait, dems don't like that because it would actually empower one of their consituancies.
     
  21. wdlove macrumors P6

    wdlove

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    #21
    I applaud President Bush on his speech yesterday, on the side of the Constitution. Most Americans agree with him, it's the Democrat party that is out of step.

    Poll Washington Post 84% Asians, 86% Hispanics, 88% Blacks, & 92% whites are against Affirmative action. The way it is practiced today, racism, a policy based on race.

    Bush is correct admission into a college should be on merit.
     
  22. sturm375 macrumors 6502

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    #22
    I agree, I only wish it had come from somebody who had a better record of adhearing to the Constitution. But that is for another time, and another debate.
     
  23. MacUser1 macrumors 6502

    MacUser1

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    #23
    true

    My thoughts exactly!
     
  24. TimDaddy macrumors 6502

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    Versailles, KY (and that's pronounced Vurr-sales)
    #24
    Re: Bush againgst blacks and latin prefernce at MSU

    Being against affirmative action does NOT make one a racist. Agree with the policy or not, this does not prove that anyone is a racist. Give it up.
     
  25. Roger1 macrumors 65816

    Roger1

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    Michigan
    #25
    A better way for equality would be the way (I believe) Texas and Califorinia do it. They guarantee any student who is in the top 10% of their high school class, are guaranteed a slot in any of the states universities. Why couldn't we do this on a national level, but make it the top 1% or 2% of students in the nations high schools? Do this and it would eliminate the race factor.

    Yes there will be details that need to be worked out, but I think it could be done.

    (edit for clarification)
     

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