Bush Defends India Job Outsourcing..

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by XNine, Mar 3, 2006.

  1. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #1
    from cnet:
    http://news.com.com/2100-1014-6045594.html?tag=tb

    Yeah, start a war between an already war torn country, then go over there and try to kiss as much as you can.
     
  2. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #2
    Huh? If you're saying that any POTUS ever is responsible for the Hindu/Muslim violence in India, you really need to reread your history. Of course, I may be misinterpreting your comment...
     
  3. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #3
    OK, but Nixon's behavior in 1970-71 certainly didn't help matters.
     
  4. dejo Moderator

    dejo

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    #4
    Hey, George, there are plenty of people here in the U.S. with the needed skills. The reason these jobs are going overseas is because companies can pay these offshore workers with the same skills (if not less) A LOT less money. The problem is not lack of skilled workers, it's getting the cheapest employees available no matter who it hurts. :mad:
     
  5. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    Ah, a realist after my own heart. Were I gay, I'd marry you (in Canada).

    It's true. While trying to posiition myself in a good High End Home Theater company after 9/11 I was met by people with Masters Degrees for the same position, same money. Even still today I ahve guys trying to take my job with high-level educations. Thank God my bosses love me...
     
  6. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #6
    Can we outsource Bush's job? There has to be some guy over there answering phones for Dell tech support than can run this country better.
     
  7. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #7
    "The United States would counter it by educating people to acquire the skills needed for jobs emerging in the 21st century rather than discouraging outsourcing, he said."

    Clinton said the same thing. Nice to know that great minds think alike. :D

    Sure, we have people here who are skilled. So? If their products sell for a lot more than imported stuff, who's gonna buy it? And if nobody buys it, how does any company stay in business?

    And if we say to hell with GATT and NAFTA and all that, what happens when people don't buy OUR exports? And if average income levels here fall a lot, impacting what's now the midddle class, how can THEY afford the high-priced output?

    IOW, for many, the skills we have, no matter how high they are, aren't suited for the world at large.

    And I don't have an answer as to what "new" skills will be marketable and profitable in this present international body of trade.

    'Rat
     
  8. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #8
    Clinton didn't say anything like that while decimating the American education system.

    We cannot maintain our disproportionately high standard of living if we have to compete against cheaper skilled labor.

    Our standard of living is going to end up more in line with that of India. Or maybe Ecuador or Colombia.
    That's the reality. While Asia's on the way up, we're on the way down.
     
  9. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #9
    Hokay, pseudobrit, I'l re-state it. Both presidents correctly maintain that more education of our workforce is needed for future success.

    The problem is that there are not as many arenas of production where we are competitive. So, some bright folks, here and there throughout the system, are going to have to figure out where we CAN be competitive.

    We're trying to shift from smokestack to information, which is hell on those in their 40s and 50s. It's hard to learn new skills and start over without starting at the bottom and working up, right? But that's the interim situation. Well, I hope it's merely interim.

    What's sorta weird is that we're still one of the world's largest exporters, in terms of dollar value.

    And with all the talk of our problems in the schools insofar as what's graduating from high school or college, I'm not sure that educational needs are being met. Howsomever, I think that's for another thread. I'll leave it that the mantra of "more money" hasn't worked for the past 44 years that I know of...

    'Rat
     
  10. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    Education isn't the answer. Protecting our intellectual property overseas is. India, China, and other developing countries owe us billions of dollars for stolen music, movies, software, books, brands, and technical designs. If we could sell them our intellectual property rather than having them just steal it, the US trade deficit would disappear. That should be the West's #1 issue - making access to our markets conditional on intellectual property protection.
     
  11. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #11
    Ah, even though some of those companies produce better cars, animation, computer chips, and clothing?

    Last I checked, America's cars sucked, our animation is sub-par with Japan's, our cloth's sub-par to French designers, and our chips not as good as the Chinese. Intellectual property is crap. It's that very excuse the RIAA uses to shove people tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Maybe we should not start wars with other countries, and shove our noses in other people's affairs.

    Let's not forget that America has stolen most of it's intellectual property from others, including rocket and propulsion system technology, weapons, land, and whatever else is out there.

    When I was in highschool, the deficit was 3 Trillion and going down. Since Bush took office, it is now 7 trillion and climbing.

    You tell me where it went wrong.
     
  12. tristan macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Yeesh... Where to begin...

    1. Japan and France do have intellectual property protection.
    2. Never heard of Chinese chips - Intel/AMD still makes the best in the world. Maybe you're talking about the Republic of China (Taiwan).
    3. The RIAA exists in the US, not overseas, which is my point. Here people share music on their computers. Big deal. In most developing countries, you can buy a bootleg CD/DVD with anything from MS Windows to the Lord of the Rings trilogy for a dollar or two in any mall.
    4. "IP is crap". Okay, then I wonder why everyone listens to our music but doesn't pay us for it. This isn't about you being able to reverse-engineer your Tivo, or listen to your Beastie Boys collection, dude. It's about 900-person call centers in India being run on bootleg copies of Windows, Access, etc, and then getting contracts from American companies and the US government to provide services to US citizens.
    5. "3 Trillion dollar deficit". I think you mean debt. If US companies could sell the intellectual property overseas, they'd collect more revenue, book more profits, and would employ more people and pay more taxes.
    6. "Not start wars with other countries". Did I advocate going to war to protect our intellectual property? Or did you think you're in an anti-Iraq war thread by mistake?
     
  13. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #13
    More money, targeted properly, would certainly help. More money for stupid tests that predict whether or not you are ready to take the test that allows you to take the next test isn't the answer. Let's face it, teaching doesn't attract the best and brightest because they can make more elsewhere. You want good teachers? There is no other answer besides more money -- for them, not for the administration. When you show up for your 20th year with 'the company' and they tell you that you are at the top of the salary scale with another possibly 15 years to go with no raise -- how are you going to react? Most people would find a new workplace, but not teachers. No school I know will transfer more than 8 years of experience anyway, even if they WERE offering more money you'd have to work another 12 years just to get back to where you were.

    How many engineers would stand it if they went to work for another company and that company said "Sorry, I know you are a senior project manager, but we're going to pay you like our junior staff instead."?
     
  14. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #14
    Ah, the old "we'll just innovate our way out of this mess!" argument.
    It's been working so well for the oil dependency problem since the 1970s that we might as well apply it to the outsourcing problem too.

    Let's face facts, folks, we're on the way down and there's nothing we can do about it as long as the rest of the world is pulling itself up.
     
  15. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #15
    i bemoan the loss of our manufacturing sector. there truly are a huge number of people in this country who are suited for nothing else.

    i'm giving us 20 years.
     
  16. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #16
    "Let's not forget that America has stolen most of it's intellectual property from others, including rocket and propulsion system technology, weapons, land, and whatever else is out there."

    Bat guano.

    The name Goddard comes to mind, among others. And Werner von Braun was quite well-paid.

    Weapons? Stoner, Winchester, Remington, Smith, Wesson, Browning, Colt, Thompson, Garand, Ruger and a host of others. France had Lebel, the master of clunkeritis; Russia had Kalashnikov. Germany had arguably the best in many ways, in Herr Mauser, whom we paid for rights to build the Springfield '03.

    The Manhattan project was home-grown. Einstein wasn't kidnapped, nor was Enrico Fermi.

    Land? Name me one ethnic group that's any sort of player on the world stage and I'll show you a population movement that dispossessed the original inhabitants. The history of people is one of constant movement, with taking and losing possession of land. Sometimes it's a Genghis Khan deal; other times it's no more than a jungle tribe moving a mile or three...

    'Rat
     
  17. katchow macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Animation? That may be a matter of taste.
     
  18. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #18
    India passed the US in FDI last year folks. That puts the US as the third most popular destination for investment, despite having an economy many many times larger than those countries.

    The relative stagnation of the US economy is unavoidable as long as China and India maintain reasonable policies; they simply have more room for improvement.
     

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