Bush Getting Re-Elected Would Hurt Nation

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by agreenster, Jul 12, 2004.

  1. agreenster macrumors 68000

    agreenster

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    #1
    I'm neither a Bush-hater nor a Bush-supporter. But I have the feeling that if Kerry/Edwards loses to Bush, the nation and world will go through 4 more years of hell.

    It's not that I think Bush has done a bad job, and I really dont think that Kerry will do a better job: it's more that Bush has been somewhat of a scapegoat for an extremely trying and difficult presidency. I dont think it will matter at all what he does in the next 4 years (pending election), the world will still hate and blame Bush for all the "war mongering," whether or not that notion is true. Regardless, people still see him that way.

    I believe if Kerry is elected, the nation and the world will be able to finally stop talking about Bush, and start focusing on Iraq, Afghanistan, and the worldwide terrorist threats, without the constant bitching about Bush. I think even the terrorist groups would slow their efforts because they would feel like the great satan is without a mongering leader.

    Who knows? Maybe Kerry will screw things up even worse. At least they cant blame Bush anymore. Just my random thoughts I thought I'd post.

    What are yours?
     
  2. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #2

    Yup
     
  3. Steven1621 macrumors 6502a

    Steven1621

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    #3
    your reasoning makes a lot of sense. many people feel they have to choose between the lesser of two evils in the next election. i spent the summer in europe a few years ago, and the difference in attitude towards america is very obvious. granted they didn't love us over there, but bush has brought about a very negative era in terms of our relationship with Europe. and regardless about what some may think, this is a global community and we have to care about what other people think.

    i will vote for kerry in november, mostly because i don't like the america bush is trying to create. i don't hate the man, but i don't like his policies in the least bit.
     
  4. Mike Teezie macrumors 68020

    Mike Teezie

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    #4
    As a Kerry supporter in a very, very Pro-Bush area, I have to deal with all sorts of bad things.

    People telling me I should be shot for seeing F 9/11, I'm brainwashed by the liberal media, not supporting Bush equals supporting terrorists, things like that.

    I've honed my debate skills to a "t", and it has done me no good. I present facts, not propaganda bs, and no one will hear it.

    All this is leading up to the fact that I've learned to just say:

    "Hey - Bush had his 4 years, and in my opinion he blew it in a major way. So I'm going to give the other guy a shot."

    I won't change any minds, but I won't get called a terrorist either.

    EDIT: Felt like I should say: I spend the majority of my waking hours trying to change people's minds to vote for Kerry.

    :)
     
  5. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #5
    agreenster, I think you hit on the head. Bush ran with a "compassion" theme. He tried to be "engaging" as a candidate. Between the attacks on 9/11, and all the rest of the countries problems, he has become more distant to the people. Unless you happen to be "conservative", then he will play to your heart strings with everything he has at his disposal.

    He does not want to go down as a failed president like Johnson. Carter, or even his father.
     
  6. CandelLife macrumors newbie

    CandelLife

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    #6
    I'm wondering what Bush was thinking when he heard about the 911 attack and sat there in that elementary school classroom looking at that childrens book as they read. When they whispered in his ear that America was under attack and the second building was hit, he still sat there. Why didn't he call the meeting to a halt because there were more pressing matters? Was he told to sit through it even under the news he knew going in the door? Was it a matter of seeming to be calm? I just don't understand...I feel like he should have acted quicker.

    And the video's used in 911 showing the relationships to the Bin Ladin's... after the attack the FBI got all the 24 Bin Ladin families out of America and back to Saudi to protect them from harm....usually family members are the first to be interrogated after a crime happens, especially something on this grand of a scale, why didn't they bring them in for questioning, why help them leave instead?

    So many things seem to have been done wrong. I get this of course, from having seen the 911 movie last night, so I have no links... the videos were true, but the stories wrapped around the videos to make this movie was obviously stretched for effect. Still, their own words on tape, that part remains....no matter how much the author added emotional pulls to it with the music and crying people to get others on his side.
     
  7. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #7
    Video doesn't lie.... until it's carefully edited and voiced over. The Rodney King video was 18 minutes long. The US news media only played the most brutal 30 seconds. (I mention this only as an example, the Swarm Technique used in LA was an excessive use of force that is no longer used.)

    Ironically I'm quite against Bush's administration. I just wanted to make sure everyone who gets all hopped up watching F911 goes and researches what actually went on (beyond wacko sites like www.whatreallyhappenned.org).

    I think that what a lot of people fail to remember is that one person does not do ALL the work. Most of the decision work (in the Executive) is done by sub-commanders and the implementation is left to career specialists. In the case of the ten minutes or so that Dubyaw "just sat there" there were myriad good decisions being made by FAA, Airforce and other agency commanders without any procedural precident. In fact, had the Prez acted at all things would have likely been worse as a variety of contextually inappropriate protocols would have wasted HOURS instead of minutes passing while individuals downstream made command decisions.

    The Bin Laden family is HUGE first of all.... Secondly, of the 24 family members moved out after 911 a dozen WERE in fact deemed of interest to law inforcement and were interviewed. (The Millitary interrogates, the Law Interviews)

    Now that I've settled some exaggerations and omissions I will say this to get things back on topic:

    My problems with GW are that he's spoiled and he's bought into the machinations of some extremely ruthless, powerful and dangerous individuals; many of which are key members of his staff.

    (Now, for the sake of linguistic expediancy alone I will continue using the "Executive Singular". :p )

    I additionally take issue with his knee-jerk reaction to the 911 attacks. At no point did he stop to wonder why someone would spend such incredible time and money executing such a dramatic and provocative act. The Bush administration played along beautifully with OBL's objective of bringing a small holocaust to the Muslim World, thus galvanizing the various factions of extremist Islam into a proto-jyhad. Had there been a little more thought involved we may have been done with this "War on Terror" nonsense, at least as far as Al Quaida by now. Instead we have a hemispheric quagmire spanning three countries and spreading our forces so thin that the National Guard equipment used domestically for fighting wildfires is deployed abroad!

    I am disgusted with the present Administration's courting the Vatican and other Conservative religious bodies for the purposes of influencing a national election. I am horrified at the obvious lack of concern for the collateral dammage to civilians and economies worldwide in the name of better profits for companies like KBR. I am furious at an administration who exposed a NOC, simultaniously nulifying one of the only long-term intelligence operations in the Middle East. As a result of that exposure there are hundreds of other NOCs that can't be deployed effecvtively due to simple backtracking.

    I could go on and on. I don't buy the conspiracy theorems but I also can't stay silent with a sitting administration so bent on implementing policies and precidents that at best skirt the spirit of the Constitutional mandate of the Executiva and at worst constitute High Crimes and potentially Treason.



    Pant, Pant.... Okay.... Rant over....
     
  8. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #8
    Well said. I don't have much to add, except that I believe that people are taken aback by the President's ten minutes in that classroom not so much by his failure to "take control of the government" at that instant, but by his impassive demeanor. In the midst of a national crisis, I'd have expected the President to excuse himself, at the very least. The rest of his day on 9-11 wasn't exactly a profile in courage, either. In fact, I'm a bit surprised that Moore didn't use the footage of his first appearance before the public on 9-11, the one where a clearly shaken George Bush said they'd "get the folks who did this." Talk about comforting a stunned nation and inspiring confidence in our leadership.
     
  9. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #9
    Both of you had good comments about the delay in Bush leaving the school children. That is why I am on the fence about that side of 9-11. Though I tend to side with IJ's position.

    In regards to the bin Laden family's flight out and their "interrogations". What bothers me most is the speed in which it all took place. A friends coworker was detained for interrogation for 5 days once international flights resumed to the US. Yes, he is Muslim. He was in Saudi Arabia for a wedding and was flying back on 9-11. Too bad he didn't have family ties to the bin Ladens, then he wouldn't have been held for five days.

    I hate to say it, but it must be nice to have Big Money.
     
  10. yamabushi macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

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    #10
    Regardless of your political affilitation if you see that the sitting President has failed in even one important way there is no reason to reelect them. Being the POTUS is supposed to be hard. If they can't hack it, there are millions of other Americans who could give it a try. There are thousands of registered presidential candidates in every election. Surely some of these people could do the job at least equally well? I can forgive people for making mistakes but there are a few professions where the possible consequences of mistakes are so high that it doesn't make sense to give people a second chance. Ask yourself - did the incumbent do anything at all that didn't sit well with you? For lower positions I can understand voting along ideological or party lines but for the number one spot I think 100% competency is even more important. Remember, this is the most powerful position a person can hold on the face of the planet. They better know what they are doing.
     
  11. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #11
    I tend to disagree with this thought. IMO it is the reason that we have the problems we have with politicians in general. I understand where you are coming from though.

    It was party lines during Clinton's era that caused some good programs to go down the drain. And with Bush it is party lines that are causing for some us distress.
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    How about the Pope?
    How about the VP?
    How about UBL?
     
  13. yamabushi macrumors 65816

    yamabushi

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    #13
    I didn't mean to imply that people should vote along party lines for those positions just that I can understand the desire of people to group together with like minded people. Most people are apathetic sheep that just keep going with whatever is familiar to them. I guess it can't be helped.

    All very powerful people but the President of the United States is the most powerful person. The President of Russia is the second most powerful. It is debatable who the third most powerful person might be.
     
  14. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #14
    how about tom delay?
     
  15. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #15
    The Pope can't get voted out...
     
  16. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #16
    Perspective...

    Let me just play devil's advocate here...

    Pope: Dottery old Parkinson's patient.... Millions of followers worldwide.

    POTUSA: Full globally-deployable millitary, including nuclear arms. Millions of Tax-paying citizens. Allied with the top twenty millitary and economic powers. de-facto leadership of NATO, the world's premier pan-national millitary force.

    Who has more power? :rolleyes:
     
  17. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #17
    Easy, the people of the US. We as a nation brought Bush into office. We can take him out of office.
     
  18. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #18
    Oh, I see...you can add a quote about him in this thread...but are too good to have responded to my thread about him...fine. I see how it is. Be that way.
    (sour grapes make for a great whine)
     
  19. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #19
    your thread was a complete catastrophe. i wouldn't post in it if you paid me.

    </joke>

    actually -- which thread?
     
  20. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #20
    As per usual...


    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=79255

    ...I thought it was interesting...
     
  21. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #21
  22. Backtothemac macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #22
    Let me say that I don't think that everything he does is gold. However, I really respect him for not disrupting the lives of those children in that classroom worse than they were going to be after he left.

    As for the diversonary tactics for the rest of the day. That was not up to him, the cabinet, the VP, the congress. The secret service decided EVERYWHERE that he would go for the rest of the day. That is fact.
     
  23. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #23
    Well back to the original post, I do agree that Bush needs to be replaced, as he has become a pariah of sorts, both domestically and worldwide.

    I do not think he has been a particularily effective President. In these times, I want one. So I will vote for a new one.

    I also happen to not like his ideology as rehflected in policy decisions he has made, so I would not be voting for him most likely anyway, but I could have more respect for the man if I thought he was on the up-and-up and was getting things done, neither which seem to be the case.

    He has had a hard lot as President, to be sure, but he has also made much (or exarcerbated) of his problems, and that imo, is a sign of poor leadership too.

    I equate this somewhat to Carter...he was a good man, and had good political ideas (depending where you stand), but was saddled with a bad time as President, and did not seemingly accomplish much. So he lost to Reagan.

    Even if it is only an perception, I believe that the world, and much of the US will breath easier with a Kerry victory. It is a shame for the Conservatives out there, because their candidate has done much to discredit himself and the Conservative moniker...
     

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