Bush leaves children behind

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by CandelLife, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. CandelLife macrumors newbie

    CandelLife

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    #1
    Teachers Want Reform of Bush 'No Child Left Behind Law'

    June 02, 2004 | Teachers across the United States are speaking out in a new advertising campaign to call for reform of the Bush 'No Child Left Behind' law. The ads are being unveiled today by teachers and education advocates.




    Speaking from personal experience, my oldest son was held back even though he passed the year because he failed the stupid sss FCAT test. The following year he was trying hard and was making better grades, he started out with B's. When he failed the FCAT test this last year he gave up because he said it was pointless, they wouldn't let him pass even if he should so why bother. He is now going to repeat the same grade for the third time all due to this damn FCAT.

    This all came about because of Bush's "No child will be left behind plan". Thanks to his plan, my son is now being left behind. I just wanted to say Thanks Bush, wow, what a great idea you had. Pass the FCAT or be left behind. I'm wondering how many children will have to drop out of school before you get it.
    ~CandelLife


    http://www.qualityednow.org/press/release20040602.php

    [​IMG]

    The ads are sponsored by Communities for Quality Education (CQE), a new education advocacy group bridging the gap between those inside and outside the education community to develop a sound, workable education policy. The ads begin airing today in Florida, Ohio, Arizona, and Nevada.

    Last week, a new website review of education records released by CQE showed hundreds of Florida schools the state ranks as its best are now being labeled as failures under President Bush's No Child Left Behind law. It found 827 top-rated Florida schools have received conflicting ratings from the federal Department of Education.

    The findings of CQE's review of state and federal education records are available to the public on its website, www.qualityednow.org. The site also has copies of the new ads featuring the local teachers. On the site, local parents and teachers can share suggestions to make their public schools better and obtain more detailed information regarding which Florida 'A Grade' schools the federal government deems as failing.

    :mad:
     
  2. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #2
    I am a bit confused by your post. Do you realize that a parent has the LEGAL right to REFUSE to have their child be retained? If you weren't told this you should sue your school district.

    I'm not sure what the FCAT is. In CA they take the CAT-6 and a State Standards test (don't recall the name). You can't pass or fail it. You are scored based on how you did compared to others.

    How old is your child? I've never, ever heard of a child being held back because of how they did on a standardized test. I know that some kids aren't going to be given diplomas if they can't pass some high school graduation test... :rolleyes:

    I would like to see No Child Left Behind done away with it. It is a joke. But what happened to your child doesn't fit with what I've seen going on.
     
  3. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #3
    i hate it when my browser is forced to scroll left/right. can we cool it on the size 18 and wide image stuff?
     
  4. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #4
    FCAT is the Floriduh test to determine whether students are up to their grade level. Three different grades are tested including 10th and 3rd, I believe, and they will not proceed to the next grade if they do not pass the test.

    It hasn't seemed so successful for various reasons. Some schools divert time from regular studies to drill for the test. Some teachers have been fired for passing along test answers, but it's not clear whether or not they were given the answers by administration.

    It's difficult to believe that someone would have to take a grade three times but some don't learn from their mistakes.

    We have the double whammy of two Bushes, though.
     
  5. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #5
    Then people need to remove their students from ALL public schools in protest. In CA (and many other states, I'm guessing) you can NOT hold back a child without the parent's consent. Considering that some children *no matter how intelligent* don't do well on standardized test that policy is ridiculous.
     
  6. CandelLife thread starter macrumors newbie

    CandelLife

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    #6
    Yes they can hold your child back without your consent. This is part of the new "no child left behind law" that if the child does not pass the FCAT on certain grades (in my son's case it's 8th grade) that they will be retained. The parent DOES NOT hold the right to refuse this.

    FCAT is set up to show the children have been taught what they are supposed to be taught. Problem is that teachers have always altered what is taught. If you remember, there were always some teachers you liked better just because they made the class interesting. However, now there is no time to do this if you want the children to pass. The only (ONLY) thing they will have time to teach is FCAT material, and nothing else. Not to mention constant testing on the material.

    SAT is different, at the end of your time in High School, the test scores that are looked at for college purposes.

    They want FCAT to be representative of what a child has learned, but it isn't. There are children who are A students who fail the FCAT and are therefore held back from passing the year.

    When will this insanity end?

    If they want "no child will be left behind" to work, how about making sure they children are not left behind, instead of the way it is now....making sure the smartest ones who have no "freeze-up problems" taking tests are the only ones who will go forward?

    Imagine our future.....drop outs every year being higher than before.....after it has hurt too many children having someone come to their senses to fix it. Why not fix it while we can be sure the children will not be left behind, instead of waiting until the numbers are high enough to justify it?

    You can look back now and say it's a simple test, but imagine the hardest final of all on the dot forms that get filled out and three of them in one week. When I was in school these FCAT tests meant nothing and we knew it and it didn't matter what we scored on them. Now the system is so wacked that "A" schools are being deemed failures. Would you say there is a problem here that needs addressing?

    As much as I hate it, my son will most likely be taking his GED in two years and moving on to college where if you fail a class, you simply repeat the class and not the entire year which is rediculous, but that's another story. He's a computer whiz so I know there are classes there for him and he will succeed, but he will do it no thanks to the public school system...all he can credit them for is failure. His success will come at his own hands after he is out of their trap.

    Fix the system, don't ignore it so that we have millions of drop outs and adults qualified for nothing better than McDonalds before you think there's a problem. Or maybe you think no child should be helped to make it so they can contribute to society more than serving you a burger?
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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  8. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    when you turn off the bolding?

    seriously, i can't even read your stuff, it looks so much like trolling.
     
  9. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #9
    I'm thinking that the child has a heredity-related problem. :rolleyes:

    When you stop ranting.
     
  10. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #10
    That is NOT part of the national plan. I live in CA and I am a teacher. The parent MUST consent to have their child retained. This is specific to Florida.

    As a teacher I am all to well aware of the problems with Standardized testing and with the fact that they don't represent what student was taught or what they learned.

    I'd start homeschooling my child if I were in your shoes.

    Thankfully nothing in education lasts for longer than 5 years. Especially stupid things like the "No child left behind" act.

    I would absolutely take my child out of public schools if I were you. Move to a different state if you can't afford private schools or homeschooling. The effects on his self esteem from being held back can be devastating. In the US children who are retained are more likely to drop out of school than those who are not. There is no known benefit for holding a child back, either.
     
  11. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #11
    Even though this parent is very angry comments like these are not necessary. He has every rate to yell and scream. You all don't have to read the post. Everything he has said so far is true of the problems with the current Administration and its stranglehold on public education.

    The only thing that doesn't make sense is that the retention is part of the no child left behind. That is a federal law so it would apply to all states and I kNOW it doesn't apply in CA. He was either lied to or it is specific to FL or both.
     
  12. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #12
    Im trying to think of one Bush program that wasnt a screw up, lets see no children left behind? nope, Clean air innitiative? Great if you want to pollute - nope, Patriot act? Great if you want to barge into the homes of law abiding americans but for anything else? nope Iraq and wmds? Nope Just face it this administration is nothing but lies and propaganda for the Police state Bush wants. Kick his behind out of office and undo everything that he and the goose stepping republicans have done the past 4 years is the solution. After years of supporting the Republicans i now despise everything they and their president stand for. No Child left behind is just another example of misdirection and a federal beaucracy that wants to control every aspect of our lives. want to make a difference? get registered and vote the draft dodger out :)
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    Wow! Izzat you? :D
     
  14. Voltron macrumors newbie

    Voltron

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    #14
    So what is the problem the purpose of the FCAT is to force teachers to teach kids certain things like they were suppose to be doing a long time ago. We are losing our technological advantage, the Japanese are winning. Not too long if we don't start forcing our schools to start actually teaching what our children need to know we will end up a third world country ourselves. Candelife your son, yes I know this person, has like 6 classes 5 of em crappy classes to make him a well rounded individual and one class that teaches everything that is suppose to be in the FCAT. That is not the way it is suppose to be. You should be having your math, your english, your writing, your logic. And then if you have time or effort left over maybe one or two other things that go towards making you son well rounded.

    If you want to be well rounded do it on your own time. If you want to be educated go to school. It is time we forced these teachers to limit their teaching to what our students need to know to survive in the world and business marketplace and to quit wasting time on other crap that don't matter.

    For your other arguments I heard elsewhere. The state doesn't really force the schools what classes to teach, nor which books to buy, nor the authors of what to write in those books. Those are controlled by your individual school boards. This FCAT is a means to force the school boards to start helping to force the schools to teach what they should of been teaching all along.
     
  15. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #15
    None of this is true. Teaching is an art, as is Learning. Taking a standardized test is a combination of a skill (which can be learned) and a learning style. His child not passing the test (or anyone else's child) may or may not have to do with what the child learned. It would like me teaching you to swim and then sitting you down and giving you a written test and determining if you knew how to swim based *solely* on the written test.

    Again, this is *not* the issue. The whole purpose of No Child Left Behind, etc. is to "prove" that public education is "failing" so that parents can get vouchers to send their children to private, Christian schools (where the teachers don't even have to have credentials, etc.). It is a set up, folks.

    You know not of what you speak.

    oh? Was education in Florida *that* bad? I thought you were from California?

    While I agree education needs a form of standardization (students need certain skills) I'm surprised a Republican would want the government to have so much control!
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    Lots of talk of "forcing" here. Sounds a bit fascistic to me. Why should teachers be "forced" to ignore the individual and teach the numbers? There is a great deal more to life than "what our students need to know to survive in the world and business marketplace". What a depressing view of education you have.
     
  17. Voltron macrumors newbie

    Voltron

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    #17
    None of which pays the rent, nor helps us compete in the world marketplace the things that really matter in todays world.
     
  18. Neserk macrumors 6502a

    Neserk

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    #18
    From what I've been reading you have to live outside the US to compete in the world. Just saw an article about people calling for info about Food stamps and their call going to India. How ironic is that?
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    I'm sorry, but this mechanistic universe of yours does not appeal: the marketplace is not everything. What about art, philosophy, politics, poetry, history? A world without anything but vocational training would be barren indeed.
     
  20. davecuse macrumors 6502

    davecuse

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    #20
    Exactly which portion of what the FCATs test for will help a student eventually compete in the world marketplace? If you force everyone to learn the exact same material isn't it obvious that no one would have a unique skillset. Following your logic we should just fire all teachers and have students sit in front of an automated program all day, without any regard for their individual interests.

    Your education should be tailored to your interests, and your hobbies. By allowing for this type of school scenario students may take a different view of education, not seeing school as waste of time, but as something to be excited about. As things are now, kids are systematically taught that learning is not cool. I think a large part of this is due to the material that is crammed down their throats. I mean sure our history is important, but how important is memorizing a bunch of dates? What is that going to get me?

    You want to really get education going, give some financial incentive to teachers. Teachers in this country get paid ****, I mean it's really pathetic. I forget if it was Chris Rock or Dennis Miller (one of those HBO stand up acts) who said it, but I agree that lawyers and teachers salaries should just be switched!
     
  21. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #21
    It simply looks ridiculous to write everything bolded. Actually, I was just wondering why someone would barely join (registered user?) these forums just to rant. In any case, I hear about the problems in Floriduh every day. They are unfortunate. I might even be sympathetic, if I didn't know so many students who are achievers. We have an F school in the Orlando area and it's been an F school for two or three years in a row. Imagine that the period in which you test has almost no one attending. That would certainly ruin your statistics.

    Floriduh had very specific educational (Gov. Bush) goals before the current President Bush took office. These have little to do with No Child Left Behind. (Let's end our educational programme title with a preposition. :D) The FCAT and its impact on exiting a grade were part of the state's educational plan development. What's so amazing to me is that they recently applauded when the 3rd grade test results were returned and just over 50 percent of the students could read at grade level. That's quite an achievement. :eek:
     
  22. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #22

    I agree.


    Our schools need to focus more on cranking out unthinking automatons.
    Art, culture, music, history? Who the hell needs that. Draw up a petition to bulldoze every concert hall, theater, museum, and art gallery and I'll be the first one to sign it. The world would be a much better place if we were all mindless, business machines. Who cares about a bunch of arid Third World countries thousands of miles away? What could they do that would ever effect the business world? And why should we foster creativity anyway? I mean, who the hell has ever been successful by thinking up something new and original? :rolleyes:

    Getting students to memorize names, dates, and places is relatively easy and relatively useless. Teaching students to think, to figure out why those names, dates, and places are important (the chain of events leading up to them as well as their repercussions) is the hard, and useful, part.
    Unfortunetly standardized tests test memorization and not critical thinking. I think all the weight placed on standardized testing is hurting education. Students are being taught how to do good on a standardized test. Which is great if all you plan on doing the rest of your life is take standardized tests. Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a life time.


    But what do I know. I must be mad. I keep imagining paying the rent with money I obviously don't have (at least according to Voltron).


    Lethal
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    Well, at least you have your imagination to keep you going! :rolleyes:
     
  24. Voltron macrumors newbie

    Voltron

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    #24
    They can do all that stuff on their own time or in extra classes over the above minimum basic requirements. At least that way they can learn to follow your own quote.
    and not have to sponge off the government living on wellfare.
     
  25. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #25
    It's the government which is sponging. Come back and say that again when the budget is anywhere within a million light-years of being balanced.
     

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