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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by clevin, Oct 19, 2006.
He is a PIG, and this is GOPPPPIG
It's a factual statement, right? It looks like the usual deal of, "If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it."
No 'Rat. Naturalized immigrants are able to vote.
Rat, i usually disagree with you but i typically respect your opinions, however sometimes your blanket defense of everything conservative results really hard to understand.
if you are a US citizen you have a right to vote. period. it doesn't matter if you are an immigrant or not.
the letter is obviously worded to intimidate the (prevalently democratic) hispanic vote in the county.
that said, it must be noted that it was quickly and soundly denounced by the local GOP reps.
The ironic thing is that the candidate is a Vietnamese immigrant.
Oddly enough, it appears it only went to voters registered Democratic...
Somebody should arrest him if he tries to vote.
If they don't like it here, let 'em go back where they came from.
As are people who were born and raised in the US, which some of those who got the letters were. Just so happens they had Latino sounding last names. And yeah, ironic that he's an immigrant himself. You'd think more would be doing what I appreciate the OC Repus doing, calling it as it is. Illegal, and despicable. I can't believe people are actually trying to defend this.
No no 'Rat, this isn't a case of if the shoe fits. Illegal immigrants can't vote, so they wouldn't be registered anyway. This was sent to registered voters (as said, specifically registered Dems), who can legally vote.
Hey, whoa! A naturalized citizen can vote, and should. A naturalized citizen has all the rights of a born-here citizen, but for running for President. An immigrant, as legal as possibly can be, is not yet a citizen--and cannot vote. It's an either or thing: You're either an immigrant or you're a citizen. (Well, okay, tourists.)
Given some of the rhetoric from some Democrats favoring immigrants voting, I can understand why Democrats would be targeted. Given the amount of this noise level in the Hispanic communities of California, it's understandable that Hispanic surnames would be targeted. Hey, this is what, once aweek? in the LA Times.
Political campaign stuff. About like the Democrats' "The Republicans want your babies to starve." nonsense, or any equivalent Republican nonsense.
Edit-add: Send $50 to your preferred party. Send $10 to the other. That gets you on their mailing lists for the rest of your life. The Democrats will send you mail saying that the Republicans are the worst evils since Genghis Khan and Adolph Hitler. The Republicans will send you mail saying that the Democrats are the worst evils since Joe Stalin and Mao Tse Tung.
File 13. Or you can be your own Fox News: YOU can be fair and balanced and then decide.
dear, read the link of my original post, those voters CAN vote, legally, by law, and then yo can stop trying to find some weird logics to excuse your first response, you can subdivide a term into 3 different categories depends on whatever condition you can find, the naked truth is that guy is threatening the voters who can legally vote, and that is disgusting and deserve no excuse.
maybe dems will attack repubs in the ads, but they didn't threaten to jail voters who vote for the other party.. or did they? There IS a difference between "attack your opponent" and "attack voters", or isn't?
There's a difference between rhetoric (speaking of which, I've never heard that one, and even though there is a lot of scaring going on, anybody who made such a claim wouldn't be taken seriously by anyone... despite some neocons making it somewhat easy to believe) and what happened here. This is fraud, and illegal. He tried to scare eligible voters and legal citizens with an outright lie. Being a legal (I'm assuming since he's running for office) immigrant himself, Tan should have known better. He should have been more aware of the legal ramifications as well, being considered for a position as a lawmakers. As well as the political fallout and negative publicity. This was just stupid all around.
Some overzealous volunteer is bad enough, as are those negative ads that stretch the truth (on both sides), but the fact that the actual person running seems to be involved in such a thing is unconscionable and undefendable.
American Heritage Dictionary
n. 1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
–noun 1. a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.
n : a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to settle there
last year there were 15 million naturalized immigrants living in the US, adding on average almost 800,000/year in the last 10 years.
IOW, you're an immigrant if you are here now, but were not born here. Immigrants can be both citizens and non-citizens. When they are citizens you can call them naturalized, but they are still immigrants.
Debating the definition of immigrant to justify this kind of voter supression is pretty low. This was a targeted attempt to suppress Democratic votes by fear, and by sowing confusion among the legal Latino immigrant community. Even the OC GOP has denounced this tactic, and good for them for doing it. I wouldn't have thought there would be much debate over whether or not this was a shameful event.
The mailer also suggested that California has a system in place for catching non-citizen voters and prosecuting them, which is a lie. Then he also apparently lied about not having anything to do with the mailer, blaming it entirely on a staffer. At this point, even his own party is urging him to get out of the race, which he never had a chance of winning anyway.
But somebody has to defend him. Right?
The opening post said, in part, "You are advised that if your residence in this country is illegal or you are an immigrant, voting in a federal election is a crime that could result in jail time."
The implicit meaning regarding immigrant is that of not completing one's conditions for citizenship, given the context.
So, what's not factual? If you're here illegally, you can't legally vote, right? If you're not a citizen, you can't legally vote, right?
Was the writer mistaken as to the possibility of jail time? Yes? No?
Now, how the heck is that "defending" anybody? How is it "defending" to point out what, SFAIK, is fact?
Y'all are saying that anybody who disagrees with your own political view is de facto incorrect as to facts?
Facts don't have political parties. Facts don't have opinions. Facts don't have morals. They just sit there and stare at you, like them or not.
Intimidation? Are voters in California denied privacy while voting, such that they would fear some sort of retaliation if they vote "wrong"? Intimidation? How? We've been electing minority folks as mayors and state and federal representatives and senators. Where is all this "intimidation"? Y'all have a million KKKers klucking around in California in their form-fitting hats, keeping people from the polls? Spare me this batch of meadow muffins.
Bull. How is that implied in the context? "or" tends to imply if A OR B then C, not if A OR B (meaning A) then C.
No wait. That's what or means.
Has nothing to do with opinion. The implication is obvious. What he did was disgusting, and illegal, threatening people. Look at the wording again. These were sent to legal immigrants and citizens, registered as Dems, in an attempt to scare some of them not to vote. Then he tried to cover it up, even worse than the fact that the mailer had some other organization's name on it. I don't know why you're arguing semantics about illegal immigrants who can't register to vote anyway.
Are you trying to say this was some kind of public service announcement out of the good of his heart or something, because I don't think that's what this was.
If immigrants can't vote how did one get elected governor?
Do you understand the meaning of the word 'or'? Yes or no?
You're playing semantic games to try and defend the indefensible. You know better.
Calif. candidate's office, home raided
By PETER PRENGAMAN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
GARDEN GROVE, Calif. - For two days, a Republican congressional candidate had promised to explain how a threatening letter was sent by his campaign without his knowledge to thousands of Hispanic immigrant voters. As about 200 people gathered Friday in front of his campaign headquarters seeking answers, Tan D. Nguyen was a no-show at his own news conference. Instead, 10 uniformed California Department of Justice police officers arrived with a search warrant and pounded on the glass of Nguyen's storefront headquarters....
pseudobrit: Maybe because he's a citizen?
So were most of the people who received these letters. So is Tan. Now you see our point.
Sound like more cutting and running ? How low can the republicans think tank of Karl Rove go? On 1 hand they ignore millions of illegals entering this nation of ours, On the other hand the ones here legally they tell them they cant vote.
yes, and he is an immigrant, since he was born in austria.
he even retained his austrian citizenship.