Can we all please

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Backtothemac, Jul 26, 2003.

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  1. macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #1
    Use these threads in the political forum for real political debate? Me and mcrain, and Jef, used to really have great discussions. Lately, it has turned into an insult fest. Can we please get rid of the Clinton insults, the Bush insults, the Anti-American crap. And actually discuss real political issues and learn something from one another?
     
  2. Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

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    #2
    don't forget the anti-anyone stuff... ;)
     
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    IJ Reilly

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    #3
    Fine with me, but your part, you might want to consider refraining from using antagonistic expressions like "you liberals" and slurs against French.
     
  4. macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #4
    90% of politics consists of insulting politicians.

    I'd much rather be contending with that sort of thing than trying to argue anything with the market anarchists, which is a bit like arguing about the internal affairs of the Catholic Church with an atheist.
     
  5. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #5
    Why is "you liberals" an insult? If you said you conservatives, it would not offend me at all. You are a liberal, and if I am addressing more than on liberal, would it not be you liberals?

    As for the French. I have never lobbed any untrue comment out there about the French.
     
  6. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #6
    for me, it's not the term itself. it's being bunched in with a group of people and having their arguments become mine. typically, "you liberals" ends up w/ some type of dismissal. in previous posts, i've been attributed arguments that i've not made, but some "other liberal."

    e.g. (and no one's done this -- yet) someone could say, "you liberals want china to invade the US". only one person said that. less extreme examples have happened many times here.

    i welcome responses to my views and am happy to discuss my point/view. it becomes difficult to do so when my viewpoint becomes mixed up w/ everyone elses.
     
  7. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #7
    See, now that is a well thought out, and stated point. I understand, and will make an effort to clarify "all you liberals that want China to invade the US are out of your mind"

    As opposed to "all you liberals"

    ;)
     
  8. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    :)
     
  9. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #9

    Nice to see that someone gets my humor.


    Seriously though, can't we all try to have good debate, rather than name calling and finger pointing.
     
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    IJ Reilly

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    #10
    I did not say it was an "insult," I said it was antagonistic. It is an antagonistic (and cheap) debating tactic to attempt to group-associate your opponent instead of addressing what they've actually argued. This is nothing new -- I've mentioned it several times before.

    I don't know what you mean by "untrue comments" about the French, because that wasn't my point, which was directed at your casual use of a slur against the French in a very recent post in another thread. If you would not use that expression to a person's face, I'd suggest that it isn't any more appropriate here -- at least if elevating the debate is your objective.
     
  11. macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #11
    Like not saying "you liberals" (finger pointing) and "The Frogs" (namecalling)?
     
  12. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #12
    As for debating, I was a two time state champion of Lincoln Douglas debate. So I am familar with the tactics, and ways in which to argue. How can I argue with an arguement such as "China should invade the US" with anything other than a "dude you are out of your mind" response. As for the slur against the French what are you talking about? Now, you don't know me, but others here do, and Eye, Rower, and Mr. Anderson will all tell you that I am not afraid to say anything to anyones face. Please understand that. I say what I mean, and mean what I say.
     
  13. macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #13
    Ditto. (I say what I mean and mean what I say) Tone it down, please. It's the presentation that's the problem

    As far as how to respond to ridiculous hyperbole, don't. It's not meant to incite serious debate, so don't bite.

    You as a debating champ should know at least that much. Don't feed trolling.
     
  14. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #14
    Agreed. Me tone it down?
     
  15. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #15
    Okay, so what you're saying now is that you know all of the dirty debating tactics, and aren't afraid to use them? This is hardly a ringing endorsement for civil debate. In fact is seems to me more like an effort to get other people to "be nice" so you can more easily pummel them in a manner and time of your choosing.

    in fact, I do know you, from over a year on these boards now, but these boards are not saying anything "to anyone's face." Still, a slur is a slur, here or anywhere else. It isn't a question of being "afraid" of saying what you mean -- it's a matter of what you mean that's at issue.

    "Doctor, heal thyself," is my advice.
     
  16. macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #16
    Agreed. It's a "do as I say, not as I do."
     
  17. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #17
    No, what I am saying is don't try to explain how to debate to me. Again, I say to you, what slur? I have asked that already, and still I have no answer.
     
  18. macrumors 6502

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    #18
    B2TM
    Do you remember a few weeks ago when you several of your posts were seen by many here as being deeply offensive and inflammatory? You exiled yourself for a few weeks, and things did actually calm down for a while thereafter.
    That being the case, I hardly think you are one to preach forum etiquette to others now.

    For those new members who don't know what I'm talking about, do a search for B2TM's posts in the Wasteland threads from March/April time.
     
  19. macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #19
    Well, you called Frenchmen "Frogs" in a recent post. The problem is that you'll throw out an insult, forget about it instantly, and then proceed to be hostile to anyone who tries to call you on it.
     
  20. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #20
    HA! That is rich. Look at the posts to which I was responding.:rolleyes:
     
  21. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #21

    Calling the French "frogs" is an insult? That is like calling us Yanks, or the English Limey's.

    If that is an insult to anyone, I am sorry, but my skin is tougher than that.
     
  22. thread starter macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #22
    Yea, I went back and looked, and some of them were hot responses, but when people took shots at me I took shots back at them, and I remember MrsBacktothemac firing a round off in response to a thread too.
     
  23. macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #23
    Again, I would think that as a debating champ, you'd be able to steel your temper and use mastery of language to dispatch your opponent rather than just call them "*******s" for insulting Bush.
     
  24. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #24
    i know french people who are offended by that. i don't know any americans who are offended by "yanks." i think there _is_ a difference.

    (dunno about "limey," btw)
     
  25. macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #25
    The difference would also be that there's no French sports teams named "The Frogs" while "The Yankees" have been around for decades.

    "Yankee" refers traditionally to a northerner. It's not an insult, but common slang.

    What if I were to start calling you a reb? Or, if you came from the north originally, a carpetbagger? It's the same as Yankee, right? Wrong.
     
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