Can We Make a Difference?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rebel, Nov 15, 2003.

  1. Rebel macrumors newbie

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    #1
    • History is made by the dedicated few. Small groups of activists will always succeed against disorganized and apathetic majorities. It will not take millions to stop them, but it will take many more than are involved today. If everyone who is aware helps another to understand; if the newly informed also awaken others; and if many of them come together under an effective organization to challenge and expose abusive and corrupt government, the tide of battle will be turned in the American Citizens favor.
    • There are more than enough good people in our nation to accomplish this goal. The struggle that consumes our attention is, at its core, a contest between right vs. wrong, good vs. evil, light vs. darkness, truth vs. falsehood, and citizens vs. government that has gone astray. Locating enough good people and energizing them with this fundamental assessment, under our combined organizational voice, will lead to victory for every American citizen forever more.
    • We have truth on our side! Corrupt government must always work in the shadows and hide their goals in a blizzard of lies, deceit, and confusion. But it only takes a pound of truth to overcome a ton of falsehood. Our mission of bringing truth to light is much easier than constantly spreading the lies needed to deceive men.
    • Hope for victory exists because our government works for us. The unfolding of unchangeable historical forces is not victimizing us. If some can change nations for corrupt and abusive purposes, we can change this nation for good and decent ends, and for the betterment of all the people. Instead of wringing our hands and lamenting that nothing can be done, we can shape history our way by demanding that principles guide this nation's actions and by exposing and eliminating the most foul and determined government employee’s our nation has ever experienced.
    If we hope to succeed, everything we do must be based on morality and for the betterment of all American citizens. And yes, you can make a difference.
     
  2. jonapete2001 macrumors regular

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    #2
    i think your screen name says it all. I explains your post to perfection!

    You remind me of someone wanting workers revolt. After the revolt do you want to form a national worker party. You do remember the apple 1984 comercial right? That is what this will lead to.
     
  3. manitoubalck macrumors 6502a

    manitoubalck

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    #3
    This happend in the Cornwell coal mines in the UK, the whole union movemnet is what he is on about, a mild, very mild left wing govenment. Australia has a workers party it's called the ALP, (Australian Labour Party) I think the name explains it all.

    There policies revolve around the state owning the Utillities (comm, water, power, gas, etc) so that they can provide equally to all of the public, instead of priviet enterprize only catering for the mass market (cities).
     
  4. jonapete2001 macrumors regular

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    #4
    I believe this is called socialism. Their a US labor party and a socialist party.
     
  5. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #5
    "Hey rebel, what are you rebelling against?"
    "What do you got?"
     
  6. g5man macrumors newbie

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    Re: Can We Make a Difference?

    I could not agree more. Excellent post.

    Perhaps this is why Conservatives have started to make a greater impact upon the political landscape of this country. It is slow but it is building up with every election. By 2008 the American party system as we know it today will not be recognized.

    The louder and more angry and frustrated the establishment becomes, the bigger the influence upon population to vote corrupt leaders out of office.
     
  7. SPG macrumors 65816

    SPG

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    #7
    Re: Re: Can We Make a Difference?

    That's what I liked about rebel's post. It could apply to whoever reads it. I read it thinking about how corrupt W and Cheney are and what it will take to toss them out of office.
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    Re: Re: Can We Make a Difference?

    D'oh! Damn Loisianans had to go wreck that point you were making.
     
  9. Rebel thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #9
    SPG - What do I have?

    I don't have anything. But I know of an organization that is growing in numbers, and whom I believe will revolutionize our government. They are not a political party because they feel that politics cannot be changed. To be a politician, is to be a bull-crapper extraordinaire. Bull-crappers are needed at the government level. What they intend to do is force funding reforms that ensure Government and Corporations work for the American people. I don't think I can give the organization name here without getting tagged for spamming. Which is not my intent. But the reform platform they are addressing is called U-ACT.
     
  10. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #10
    Re: SPG - What do I have?

    (gasp)

    the Ushamartin Academy of Communication Technology?!??!?!

    i felt lucky.
     
  11. Rebel thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #11
    U-ACT

    U-ACT Stands for Universal American Citizens Tax. It looked pretty good to me.
     
  12. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #12
    Re: U-ACT

    i'd like to take a look at it. have you a link?
     
  13. mactacular macrumors newbie

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    #13
    Here is a link
    u-act

    This is nothing more than a flat tax. A very simalar idea was posed by Steve Forbes when he ran for president a few years back. I like the idea. This U-ACT system seems good on the surface but how does this help equality. On the Uact site it complains about the rich getting richer. If the rich now pay 35% taxes(UACT figure) and under UACT plan they would only pay 20% how does that help the poor. Also the "poor" tac brakets (10 and 15 percent tax) move up to 20 percent. If anything this would only help the rich get richer. They also claim that if you dont work you still pay taxes. ? If you have no income you pay no tax. Also thier tax system lists nothing about payroll tax, which pays for social security and medicare. This would limit governmetn projects and in the end hurt america.

    This system sounds good on the surface, but in reality it is doomed to fail. It violates every notion of the fairness of a progressive income tax. Peole around here complaing about the rich getting richer now. If this ever passed every rich company and person in america would be so happy they woule crap in their pants. This would a great american give away to those who like to rob the poor already.,
     
  14. Rebel thread starter macrumors newbie

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    It helps equality by ensuring all Americans pay the same proportion of their income tax. Many of the rich hide their income. Even tho the tax in their bracket is 38%, in reality most pay well below 10% of their total income. Also, looking at the poor. Most are paying well below 20% of their income. But close to 25% of their income goes to other taxes. I.e. Home owners tax, sales tax, etc. Under U-ACT, only 20% of your income is taxed. Everything else goes away. So yes, the poor will keep more of their money.

    Concerning unemployed not paying taxes, yes they do. They have to pay tax on their unemployment checks. They also are paying sales taxes on everything they buy and own. Under U-ACT, no taxes are paid unless they are working. This will ensure governments are working to keep Americans working in America. In addition, taxes can never be raised any other way. If Americans are earning annual raises and bonuses, so will our governments. This is win-win for everyone. The economy will thrive because if we Americans keep more of our money, we will spend it.

    With the U-ACT system, the federal government will still get close to $1.8 Trillion tax dollars annually. If they are limited on the number of pet projects they can support, it will be all the better for the American people. Look at the PORK report that is on the site.
     
  15. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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  16. manitoubalck macrumors 6502a

    manitoubalck

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    #16
    Very good jonapete, but Neither will ever gain power in the states. You guys are stuk with a moderate Right wing (Democrats) and a far right wing (Republicans) for good.
     
  17. manitoubalck macrumors 6502a

    manitoubalck

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    #17
    Re: Re: Re: Can We Make a Difference?

    I find a bullet works wonders, (you forgot Rumsfelt)
     
  18. manitoubalck macrumors 6502a

    manitoubalck

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    #18
    agreed. Tax the wealthy highley (they have more spare cash) and tax the poor lightly (there poor so making them poorer is not going to help+a high tax for a poor man is still not alot of money in national terms)
     
  19. mactacular macrumors newbie

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    #19
    The U-ACT system will never come to be. It is the same as every other flat tax in history of U.S. The poor will get poorer and the rich will get richer. I dont care how much they say it will work, common sense says that it won't. Rebel says that rich actually only pay around 10% now and poor pay around 20%. Yeah right, come look at my pay check and i will tell you who pays more(percentage). Also this system would criple the government. all the nice little social programs would fall on their face. Some people are against the war ok. But this tax system would criple the military so bad that the US would not be a world power any more. Talk about job creation. Do you have any idea how many government jobs would be lost to this new flat tax program. The web site(linked in my post above) looks very nice and organized but when one looks at the info stuff does not add up. U-ACT organisers make many misleading statements.
     
  20. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    Total tax burden for all Americans settles in around 50% of income. I pay more than that even though I make less than $20,000 a year. Someone earning lots more pays a much lower percentage now thanks to GW.

    If the Conservatives get their way and eliminate estate and capital gains taxes, someone who inherits millions of dollars will simply have to pay sales tax on it when/if he spends it. How is that fair to someone who busts his ass to make a middle-class living for himself?
     
  21. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #21
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Can We Make a Difference?

    Please refrain from political death threats or hinting at it. It could get arn in trouble. Threatening to kill the POTUS is a crime in the USA.
     
  22. mactacular macrumors newbie

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    #22
    1. Money is never fair. Their are rich people. One has to get over this.
    ?are you saying that a person who pays 35% federal income tax ends up paying 50% total tax. And also a person who pays 25% fed income tax ends up paying roughly 50% total tax. Where does this extra 15% come from. (Is there a poor person tax?)

    Estate Tax is wrong, tax was already paid on this money by the original earner. also those at the top do pay a lesser percentage than previously, but so does everyone else. It makes sense that when tax cuts are given out, the people that paid in the most would get the most back.
     
  23. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

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    #23
    Once you subtract the cost of living from a rich person and a poor person, the poor person pays a higher percentage of his disposable income. Why? Because the bottom tax bracket kicks in well under the standard cost of living, taxing the poor for money they need to simply survive.

    Without the estate tax, you end up with an aristocratic system. I cannot think of anything more unAmerican, and am flabbergasted by those who see it as an essential liberty.
     
  24. mactacular macrumors newbie

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    #24
    Cost of living, when has this entered into a tax discussion. Do you want everyone to have the same amount of money? these liberal ideas alway make me think of comunism
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #25
    WTF? Communism? Don't poor people have a right to earn untaxed income up to a level where they can afford to survive?

    I don't want everyone to have the same amount of money, I want everyone to be able to freely earn enough money to survive. One cannot always do this with the current system.
     

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