Canadians boo the American National Anthem!

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Mr. Anderson, Mar 21, 2003.

  1. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #1
    Ok, this really is sad and I a little disappionted that such a thing could happen. :(

    http://sports.washingtonpost.com/nhl/game_info.cfm?action=recap&game_id=159384

    If I had been an American player I would have seriously considered not playing. But its actually better that they did and beat them instead!

    And, I know this is a touchy subject, so lets avoid flaming and name calling. I'd be interested in hearing what other people think, Canadians as well.

    Don't make me shut my own thread down ;)

    D
     
  2. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #2
    Well canada doesnt really have much of a military since we are the ones that truely provide their security, Just as we provide S.Korea's, and West Germany for 50 years etc etc. Just more people who would rather be living under tyranny rather then freedom. I know this doesnt represent all of the country but a very common theme is that many young people (teens- mid twenties) are active in these anti U.S marches etc. They dont understand that the Freedoms they enjoy were not just given to them. Time and time again we have risen to overcome the Hitlers, the Saddams, the Stalins,The Milosevich's etc etc. These were not accomplished by doing nothing and hoping for the best. They were accomplished by action or threat of force,negotiation and even war. The U.S. does not war because we like it, we do this because of the failure of the world community. The U.S. detests war and have found appeasement to Tyrants never works. Negotiation with a killer, liar, can only go so far and then enough is enough. I am ashamed of those that were booing because i guess they would be happy if Saddam was just allowed to keep his people oppressed and to keep ignoring what he was required to do after the Gulf war.
     
  3. kansaigaijin macrumors 6502

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    #3
    South Korea can look after it's self. they have a million man army, and 4.5 million reserves. the US has what, 47,000 troops in South Korea?
    Who is protecting whom?
    If you had paid any attention, you would know Canadians don't support your war. They don't share your paranoia. Who do you think you are protecting us from?
     
  4. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #4
    1st i am not paranoid, only think what we are doing is finishing what was never finished in the 1st place. Second you are wrong on S.Korea and even their new Minister who was elected on many anti U.S. themes has asked us to stay. This isnt because we are so bad but rather because of the fact that N.Korea has a government that is.
     
  5. Mr. Anderson thread starter Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #5
    They can disagree or agree as they like. Showing disrespect in public like that is poor form. Look at it from a different perspective - imagine that Americans boo'd O Canada? How do you think Canadians would feel.

    As for sharing our paranoia, has everyone forgotten 9/11 so soon? You can take the moral high road, that's easy sometimes, because it doesn't affect you. But why did all the terrorists come over the border through Canada?

    There isn't an easy solution to this, but it still doesn't call for being nasty about it if you don't agree.

    D
     
  6. MMirage macrumors newbie

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    #6
    Speaking as a Canadian...

    Okay, I'm a Canadian who happens to be old enough to remember the first Gulf War. For those "young people" who may not really understand what went on last time, Sadham decided that he liked the look of Kuwait, so he sent his army in and said "Mine Now!"

    Everyone in the international community was involved in getting him out. The US spearheaded the war, but we were all there. And even after he was tucked back in to Iraq, he still committed mass murder upon his own countrymen in the north and south, killing thousands of men, women and children.

    So, is this the guy you want to be holding the trigger of modern weaponry? Of the SKUD missles he has been lobbing at Kuwait? (Note that he denied having any SKUDs left!)

    So of course we should be there. We should have finished the job the first time, and then we wouldn't NEED to be there. And Canada should be there too... our Prime Minister simply has no backbone. (He'll be remembered as the man who accomplished the least of any man in office!)

    Anyways, that's my 2 cents on the war. As for Canadians boo-ing the US Anthem... I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I find that when you get a large gathering of males in one location doing something really manly like watching sports, our collective intelligence drops to a level just slightly higher than the level of the beer in our hand. We do really stupid things. This happened to be one of them. On behalf of those Canadians who actually do use their brains on occasion, my apologies to our American friends. Even if some of us do share different political opinions, that kind of behaviour is totally uncalled for. Those who were there should be ashamed of themselves.

    There, I've fired off my mouth. So, to everybody who wants to give me a lashing... BRING IT ON!

    *grin*

    ... MMirage
     
  7. caveman_uk Guest

    caveman_uk

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    #7
    I think at the moment you'd be hard pushed to find anywhere in the world (outside of the US) that that might not happen. If you hadn't noticed the only place this war seems to have a majority of the population backing it is the United States. I agree it's sad that people feel the need to boo other people's national anthems though. Perhaps it was more likely in Montreal as it's in Quebec and they have close ties with the French. Dunno.
    1. Hitler - the US was late to that war and there was a lot of US opinion that didn't want to get involved so the US government didn't until it had the excuse of Pearl Harbor. It's a fair point that we were pretty much f*cked by the time you did turn up and we would probably be eating sauerkraut right now if it wasn't for the US
    2. Saddam Hussein - the US (and the UK) was perfectly happy to support this murderous thug when he was facing the Iranians even with his diabolical human rights record etc. Shame really as we now face his supposed WMDs that we sold/gave/helped him get. We didn't mind him using them on the Iranians...
    3. Stalin - Overcome how? He died still in charge of half of Europe, murdering millions. Still, decades after his death, the Soviet Union collapsed bankrupt so that's a victory...eventually.
    4. Milosevich - Stayed in power even after we stopped bombing him. Eventually removed by his own people. Nobody wanted to risk their ground troops to remove him so he stayed in power.

    Just check your history before you start claiming 'victories'. Just ask yourself 'Why Saddam?' when there's lots of other b*stards in the world equally or better deserving of attention.

    Oh and by the way. Just because someone doesn't agree with people bombing other folks they don't like doesn't make them 'liberals', 'losers' or anything else...
     
  8. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

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    #8
    MMirage, that was an awesome post!!! I can't see any reason to flame you. And on behalf of all Americans who use their brains, I accept your apology. Now if only we could do something about the rest of them...

    JW
     
  9. kansaigaijin macrumors 6502

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    #9
    only one terrorist crossed the border from Canada, Ressem(sp?) the guy who tried to planned to bomb LAX. None of the 9/11 hijackers had anything to do with Canada, all were in the US on student visas. Your government let them in, don't blame Canada.

    Booing at a hockey game? what would you prefer them to do? Those people disaprove of your policies, which now includes visiting violence on another country. Booing your anthem would seem to me a pretty mild form of protest.
    Maybe that was why the baseball game was cancelled in Tokyo, they couldn't guarentee the safety of the players? what a joke! More like couldn't risk the embarrassment.
    I have already had Japanese people challenge me whether I am an american or not, people here are much more angry than Canadians are. Glad I am not in S.Korea, they are really hot.
     
  10. kansaigaijin macrumors 6502

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    #10
    gee, maybe they read this before the game,

    from the globeandmail.com,

    By COLIN FREEZE
    From Friday's Globe and Mail


    E-mail this Article
    Print this Article
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    * Timing of report raises brows

    Two U.S. pilots who accidentally bombed and killed Canadian soldiers last year should no longer face criminal charges, according to a U.S. Air Force investigator whose findings were released yesterday.

    The non-binding report, which is already being hailed as a relief to thousands of U.S. soldiers who have begun fighting in a war against Iraq, argues that Major Harry Schmidt and Major William Umbach should no longer face the prospect of being jailed for dropping a 225-kilogram bomb on their allies in Afghanistan last April.

    Relatives of the soldiers who were killed or injured in the attack expressed disappointment at the outcome.

    "I want to see some punishment," said Agatha Dyer, whose 25-year-old son, Corporal Ainsworth Dyer, was killed in the bombing.

    "This is just a charade," Ms. Dyer said from her home in Montreal. "They just get away with murder."

    Ron Link, whose son, Private Norman Link, survived the friendly-fire attack, wondered whether the U.S.-led attack on Iraq -- and Canada's refusal to take part -- might explain why the pilots likely will not face criminal sanctions.

    "Their guys are probably saying, 'Well, these guys aren't even onside with us any more, they're not fighting with us, so why . . .?' " Mr. Link said.

    According to a statement summarizing the still unreleased report by Colonel Patrick Rosenow, there is "sufficient evidence" to charge and try the two pilots under a court-martial proceeding.

    But the colonel -- who spent months probing the attack that killed four Canadians and wounded eight others -- concluded that "the interests of good order and discipline" would be adequately served by the pilots appearing instead before a "non-judicial or administrative forum," according to the U.S. Air Force statement.

    That means that should a more senior U.S. Air Force officer agree with that finding -- and that is the most likely scenario -- the pilots could, at most, be dismissed, get letters of reprimand, or be docked a few weeks pay.

    Supporters of the pilots have complained that the two Illinois National Guardsmen could face up to 64 years in prison if convicted of criminal manslaughter charges -- a possibility that now seems very remote. The pilots were also charged with dereliction of duty and aggravated assault.

    The pilots' friends and family say Major Schmidt and Major Umbach have become cautiously optimistic about their futures, but will be anxious as a lieutenant-general takes a up to a month to review the recommendations.

    But the findings should immediately bolster the spirits of U.S. soldiers now in Iraq, Major Schmidt's defence lawyer, Charles Gittens, said yesterday.

    "The pilots will have the confidence that if they make a mistake in combat under the intensity of the moment, they won't have to worry that they're going to be second-guessed in a court-martial," Mr. Gittens told The Globe and Mail in a telephone interview.

    The charges were laid after Canadians expressed outrage over the deaths of the soliders.

    Defence Minister John McCallum wouldn't comment on the report yesterday beyond saying that he hoped that the slain soldiers' families would soon get closure.

    But opposition MPs expressed disappointment. "I was really calling for justice, I was really calling for them to really look for some kind of a penalty. They didn't go that far," Conservative MP Elsie Wayne said.

    Canadian Alliance MP Leon Benoit argued the timing of the announcement is curious, given that the war will likely bury U.S. accounts of the accident.

    "I don't think there's any doubt that they want to hide it," he said.

    A U.S. Air Force spokeswoman said Col. Rosenow finished his 33-page finding on March 18, but it has taken days to photocopy volumes of supporting documents that were based on evidence from a preliminary hearing in January.

    The accident occurred as the pilots flew over a nighttime live-fire training exercise involving Canadian infantrymen in Afghanistan last April. While being supervised by Major Umbach, Major Schmidt did not heed an order to hold his fire and instead dropped a 225-kilogram bomb on the Canadians, whom he mistook for al-Qaeda fighters.

    U.S. Air Force Lieutenant-General Bruce Carlson will now go through the 33-page report and its accompanying volumes of evidence. He may decide to proceed with manslaughter charges or even drop all proceedings entirely -- but experts say it is "very likely" he'll go along with the report.

    The report recommends that Major Umbach's case go to an "administrative forum" -- which would, at worst, result in a letter of reprimand, according to a U.S. Air Force spokeswoman. Such letters are a black mark that would make any military promotion difficult, if not impossible.
     
  11. jethroted macrumors 6502a

    jethroted

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    #11
    Well as a Canadian, I can say that booing at a hockey game is not very good. It's one thing if our gov't feels that they should not participate, but it does not mean they are anti american. It just means they don't feel it wasn't time to use violence yet. It's really just a timing issue. It's not like we could have done all that much anyway. We only have 2 boats, and a helicopter or something. The US is really not missing a whole lot of support from us.
     
  12. Totalshock macrumors member

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    Tarana (to locals...)
    #12
    There is ignorance in any culture, and the number of Canadians who suffer from petty jealousy of the U.S. is mind-boggling to me at every turn. (I am Canadian, by the way.)

    There's a time and a place for everything... if you wish to protest the foreign policy of the United States, the appropriate place is not a sports event. No matter how much you may despise the concept of war against Iraq, or for what reasons you choose to despise it, I sincerely doubt that anyone in the Bush Administration chose to consult the athletes who are taking to the field or rink when making the decision to launch the attack.

    Although, that being said, I've been to a couple of sporting event in the United States where my country's anthem has been booed loudly, or had "USA! USA! USA!" chanted over it... and it's not a pleasant or comfortable occurence.
     
  13. chrisfx811 macrumors regular

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    #13
    the pilots made a huge mistake that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.
    murder implies that they intended to kill those canadian soldiers... don't think so.
    you know what else is funny, many young americans have the same attitude about our own country. just look at these anti-war protesters. many of the ones i have seen on t.v. thus far look like typical, throw-back hippies, with no jobs or shoes on their dirty feet. who cares, about canada booing our anthem at a friggen athletic event, they'll be ki$$ing our @$$ at the next oppurtunity they get where they want something. for crying out loud, an american food stamp is probably worth a $100 canadian!:p
    funny how the anti war protesters will soon be grasping for straws if the invasion keeps going the way it has been. minimal resistance, no sign of saddam, minimal oil fires, etc.
    loud-mouthed democrats and others will be remembered by me when it comes election time
     
  14. Mr. Anderson thread starter Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #14
    That's not right and I had no idea that that's happened. Even under the influence of a crowd of guys drinking beer, I'd never participate in that.

    Where were you when this happened?

    And, yes, there is a certain amount of ignorance here, in all cases. :(

    D
     
  15. tucker macrumors newbie

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    Mississauga, Ontario
    #15
    Booing

    There have been occatons in the past at baseball games in Baltimore where fans have boo'd the Canadian Anthem as well as inverted the flag in the opening game cerimonies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    please don't look down at fan's from another country when your's do the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I do not agree with booing for any reason, (anthem)it is disrepectfull to the players and game which ussualy has nothing to do with the booing.

    Eric
     
  16. Jaykay macrumors 6502a

    Jaykay

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    #16
    Re: Speaking as a Canadian...

    Just to correct you there 'SCUD's and they havent proved that they are SCUDs yet, they could be missiles that are outside the UN sanctions.
     
  17. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus

    eyelikeart

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  18. Mr. Anderson thread starter Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #18
    Re: useless post of the day

    You are complaining about my thread, Mr. Poop!?!?!

    I was just surprised that it could happen, and had know idea that Americans have done it to Canadians as well, poor form all around. So from my perspective its been a great thread, I actually learned something. ;)

    D
     
  19. kansaigaijin macrumors 6502

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    #19
    dukestreet, not trying to pile it on, but have you heard of the softwood lumber dispute?

    you didn't know about the friendly-fire incident?
     
  20. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

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    #20
    What does this have to do with the Iraq war? Live in the now, man. :D :D :D

    Just kidding. I totally agree with you here. But this is the kind of reply you'll receive on these boards. They either ignore your good points or say that you are dwelling on the past when the pro-war hawks are the ones that love to bring up the fact that "America saved their butts in [insert a war here]." Its tiring.

    People try to paint us as the savior of the free world. The reality is much different than that. I'm not saying we are evil...far from it. But we aren't perfect. And our track record of when and where we decide to uphold the principles of freedom is quite self-serving.

    We can't ignore that. The fact that there is evil is not, by itself, justification for going to war. Want proof? Look at the other evils in the world. So if evil alone isn't justification, what are the other criteria under which we choose the situations we leave alone and the situations we enter into as the champions of freedom?

    Looking at our history, it isn't clear to me that we have a just and fair set of criteria for such actions. In fact, it seems to me that the criteria is simply: does it serve the current administration's short term interests?

    How just is that? How righteous?

    As many here have said (including Don't Hurt Me) we are becoming the lone force in upholding the principles of freedom. I view this as a dangerous thing. If we aren't careful to act in the best interests of the world community, then we aren't upholding the principles of freedom, but the interests of the United States.

    That is anything but freedom.

    Taft

    [edited for typos]
     
  21. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

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    #21
    Re: Booing

    I thought I heard about that. But I didn't want to say anything until I knew it was true. You wouldn't happen to have a link, would you?

    I'm looking for one right now...

    Taft
     
  22. Mr. Anderson thread starter Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #22
    I knew about the friendly-fire incident - and its terrible, especially how its been handled.

    As for the softwood lumber, no. But I do remember a couple years ago about the salmon fishing issues.

    All of these things are problems, but for me, its not ever something enough to cause outright disrespect. I, personally, couldn't imagine booing any countries anthem, sportsmanship in games is important to me, maybe I'm being too naive. But seeing that it isn't a sole incident and that it happens all the time was an eye opener. And that doesn't make it any better.

    My perspectives on team sports are heavily influenced by Ultimate Frisbee and its rules and game philosophy. There are no refs in Ultimate, at the highest level, National and International tournaments you have observers. All fouls and play 'isssues' are resolved by the players. If a foul is contested, play resumes at the time, condintions of possession previous to the foul. It works well and keeps the game quite friendly, yet competitive. Its called 'Spirit of the Game'. To me, sports shouldn't involve politics, but I guess being idealistic isn't any better in some cases.

    D
     
  23. Taft macrumors 65816

    Taft

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    #23
    Here it is.

    Did any of you really think that Americans couldn't be at least as base as our Canadian counterparts?

    Unfortunately, we like to boo the Canadian national anthem almost every time a Canadian hockey team visits the US.

    Here are just a few examples I found.

    http://www.khmer.cc/community/t.c?b=11&t=289
    http://www.canoe.ca/Slam020423/col_dallacosta-sun.html
    http://www.sciforums.com/archive/19/2002/05/1/7216
    http://etheridge.ca/articles/anthem.html

    We shouldn't be pointing fingers here. As far as I can tell we almost never give Canada any respect. Why should they return the favor?

    Taft
     
  24. Mr. Anderson thread starter Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #24
    Re: Here it is.

    Pathetic, if you ask me. I'm thoroughly annoyed. Oh, well. Guess I openned this can o' worms.

    I'm thinking someone in charge of these games should say something before playing the anthems, ask for the respect due to the visiting teams. :(

    D
     
  25. caveman_uk Guest

    caveman_uk

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    #25
    Thanks... I realised that I was heading into flamebait territory with that post and for the record I for one do appreciate what the US has done for Europe over the past sixty years. The Hollywood view of US action around the world tends to engender the 'We saved the world' view when the real life roles of other nationalities forces become supplanted by Americans (such as U-571 where British submariners were replaced by Americans). It is very galling when people have a 'we saved the world' attitude as (as you say) wars are generally fought for self-serving interests with little regard for the 'rightness' of things. Look at the support the west gave the mujahadeen in Afganistan when the Russians invaded...look what that's got us now.
     

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