Catastrophic Climate Change — TEN Years from NOW

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by OutThere, Jan 24, 2005.

  1. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #1
    If the world keeps up the current rate of greenhouse gas production, there is a good chance that there will be a somewhat-rapid global climate change.

    One thing that I took out of the article: The fact that the last ice age was only 5-6C less than it is now. I think that when people think 'ice age' they thing 30-40C less than now. The biggest challenge right now for environmentalists is in their information dissemination. The masses are not reading this information.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4202649.stm
     
  2. brap macrumors 68000

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    #2
    Global warming is all a bunch of hippy bulls**t. Whiny liberals who haven't noticed the peaks and troughs in long-term climate which are part of the planetary ecosystem.

    I just thought I'd say it now, since this is what you'll be hearing until it's too late.
     
  3. DanTekGeek macrumors 6502

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    #3
    being a liberal red tree hugging commie bastard, i resent that comment. However, I have to agree that any effect that we have on the environment is so amazinly minimal that the earths normal climate pattern just wipes it out. go read "state of fear"
     
  4. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #4
    Everyone who believes in global warming needs to go read Michael Crichton's book State of Fear RIGHT NOW. He pretty thoroughly debunks the concept of global warming, stating (and demonstrating through actual scientific evidence, with references) that (1) bad science is used to support the concept of global warming (i.e., global warming advocates only accept evidence that backs the theory, while ignoring all else) and (2) global warming is used as a "boogeyman", replacing the old Soviet Union and the fear of nuclear holocaust as a means of social engineering and control (i.e., a way to scare people into performing particular actions).
     
  5. brap macrumors 68000

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    #5
    He's writing a work of fiction from the standpoint of a cynic, right?

    You have to come up with better references than that.
     
  6. Hoef macrumors 6502a

    Hoef

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    #6
    "anything touched by Greenpeace loses credibility"
     
  7. DanTekGeek macrumors 6502

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    #7
    actually, this book is one of the most referanced peices i have ever read (fiction or non-fiction). read it, then you can critisize it.
     
  8. brap macrumors 68000

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    #8
    I've been reading around, and yes, it does seem to be criticised a lot by folk who haven't read it.

    But from an academic point of view, you can't argue that this man has no qualifications, and no credentials. If I were reading a book on, say, 17th Century baroque architecture I'd not trust anything written by Tom f00kin Clancy, however convincing. Try again, please.
     
  9. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #9
    Hello? Islamic Terrorism? Is Crichton paying _any_ attention?
     
  10. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #10
    Actually, although he uses plenty of scientific evidence to debunk global warming, in the appendix he states that he believes in SOME aspects of global warming... so I give him a lot of credit.

    His point that the atmosphere is a hugely dynamic system which cannot be measured based on what you see in one spot (e.g., CO2 levels HERE are not necessarily the same as at some other point on the planet's surface, or above it) is well taken.
     
  11. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #11
    Global warming came first... right after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
     
  12. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #12
    Tom Clancy beat him to it. Go read Executive Orders. I remember re-reading that book after the 9/11 disaster (incidentally I was supposed to be flying that day) and although the form of terrorism is different, it still gave me chills.
     
  13. OutThere thread starter macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #13
    Ahhh....good - a fiction book, by the man who wrote Jurassic Park. While it may or may not reference good scientific facts - it should not be used as something to refute real scientific studies. :rolleyes:
     
  14. MacAztec macrumors 68040

    MacAztec

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    #14
    THANK YOU! I love you for that. I 100% agree.
     
  15. snkTab macrumors 6502a

    snkTab

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    #15
    Global warming, blah! Bring it, I'm so f&@#$ cold. But anyway before that happens, just wait till acid rain burns your eyes out.

    who cares about global warming when we are deforesting all the flora and depopulating all the fauna. i think there are bigger issues at hand.

    anyway, if major global issues pop up, scientist can just you a drilling machine to go to 'the core' of the earth and nuke it to reset. just like PRAM.
     
  16. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #16
    Well, his fiction is WAY more believeable than the stuff that the global warming advocates are churning out. At least he's willing to consider ALL of the evidence, not just the evidence that supports his point of view.
     
  17. OutThere thread starter macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #17
    That makes it sound like an agenda that is trying to be pushed onto people - well, contrary to popular belief, we are actually trying to help the world help itself.
     
  18. Apple Hobo macrumors 6502a

    Apple Hobo

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    #18
    This reminds me of the yearly claims of, "Apple will be out of business soon!" Let's see what happens first: Apple going out of business or global warming. ;)
     
  19. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #19
    Well, it is an agenda, and it is being pushed onto people. And the fallacy is that the world needs our help to "help itself". There is no equilibrium; there is only constant change. The world doesn't need help; it simply is.

    Banning CFCs may have had some effect on the ozone layer; but at the same time, doing so has indirectly resulted in many human deaths, due to the reduction of availability of refrigerators for food in the developing world. Banning DDT may have had some unspecified effect on the environment, but 50 MILLION people have died of malaria and other mosquito-borne pathogens since DDT was banned.

    The only proper approach to global warming is to consider ALL of the evidence... if you do, you'll see that we know NOTHING about how the environment actually works, and that anything we do is not likely to help one way or the other.

    Read State of Fear, and then tell me what you think.
     
  20. jamdr macrumors 6502a

    jamdr

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    #20
    While I agree that global warming may not be as urgent a problem as some environmentalists make it out to be, the fact is that dumping toxic gases into our atmosphere will eventually have consequences. As the human population continues to grow and more countries become industrialized, global warming WILL become a major issue. So why should we wait that long? Doesn't it make sense to curb our environmentally dangerous lifestyles now, to avoid tragic consequences in the future? There are more side-effects to green house gases than just global warming, anyway. They also make this planet pretty crappy to live on, just from the perspective of someone who enjoys clean air and sensitive wildlife (wow, to think we are not the only species on this planet).

    And please, to whoever referenced Michael Crichton's newest piece of scientific propaganda, get some perspective. That man has his own agenda, just like these "hippie environmentalists" do.
     
  21. clayj macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #21
    Actually, he states in the appendix to the book that he believes in global warming, to a certain extent. So what do you think his agenda is, aside from selling more books? :rolleyes:
     
  22. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #22
    "jurassic park" is indeed a good read, it touches lightly on the Chaos theory... i encourage people to read up on chaotic systems and apply that knowledge to the "minimal" impact that mankind has on the planet. The smallest thing we do can have mammoth consequences, although yes, in the end, the chaos does form a pattern. This is comparable to the "earth's cycles" that anti-environmentalists use to defend pollution. The problem is, these patterns do not necessarily tell us that we can't affect a dramatic change in a short period of time... just that the earth will recover from it pretty much OK.

    The general public is being offered a clean conscience on the air, water, and land pollution we cause every day. Of course they're going to believe some scientists that think pollution can't cause problems. It's a lovely way to think... unrealistic, implausible at best, but guilt-free.
     
  23. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #23
    The planet has cycles that we are only slightly becoming aware of. While we talk about the hole in the s pole, what did it look like 5,000 years ago? who knows. Temperature measuring equipment is more accurate now than 100 yrs ago or even 50 years which is why we have human body cooling (scientist used to think 100F was the natural temp, we are finding it is actually less than the ole 98.6-as equipment gets more accurate). It does seem that temperatures are on the up swing, wether it is part of a solar effect (nasa has done work on this) or man made is yet tbd. Pollution is bad, I am not aware of any benefits other than cheap toys from china, of pollution. Desertrat had a previous post on how air is cleaner leaving the US than it arrives-thus begins the politics and kyoto.

    A couple of facts are inescapeable-the planet is not static.
    The planet has warmed and cooled and repeated before.
    Pollution is bad.

    Beyond that it is all political, the finger pointing and methods to move forward are important and with the current state of the UN-distant at best.
     
  24. Timelessblur macrumors 65816

    Timelessblur

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    #24

    well his mistake was using a fiction book for an agument which in it self is automticly a voided argument. But he does bring something useful to light. The sourse quite in the book are legit (if he foot noted them) also the back of the book as some good refrenes in it now those sorse are good. but the book is self is not.

    As for the book I still say they should read it because it is a really good book and a really enjoyble book to read. I read the book in a little more than a day (Their is not much else to do at my grandparents but read and sleep).

    As for global warming yeah the earth is warming up but the system is very dynamic and constaly changing and does going in warming and cooling trends.
    Are humans warming up the earth some more than likely yes but it is so little that it not worht messuring. The nature system has a much great effect on it.

    Now there is no question that humans are destorying the eviroment in other ways with our waste and polution but we prouble not warming the earth up.

    Now we do need to clean up our polution because it eveolutly going to come back to kill us down the road but that been pretty much an accepted fact.

    Now during every major age in earth history they have been times of great extetion. Now I do believe that humans will be the next ones to cause next set of mass extention on this planet.
     
  25. AmigoMac macrumors 68020

    AmigoMac

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    #25
    I hope they get liquid cooling along the whole line. otherwise it will be a h*ll of a loud iBook :)
     

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