China Oks military force against Taiwan

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Dont Hurt Me, Mar 8, 2005.

  1. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #1
    Zimv200 where are you ;) This doesnt look good to me. China has bought and built a lot of military toys over the years. They going to use them?http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7122250 Its like the communist telling themself its ok to invade Taiwan after 50 years....
     
  2. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #2
    wow, i've been promoted to version 20! :)

    i'm starting to think that one of bush's most popular plans is the doctrine of pre-emption. just about the only thing he's been a real leader on. <gulp>
     
  3. Dont Hurt Me thread starter macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #3
    Sorry about that promotion, this old mac keyboard must be getting sticky. I cant understand why no one is talking about this. China is passing its own law to OK a takeover of Taiwan and all the world is paying for their military. So we have years of purchasing Chineese goods giving them all the money in the world to build a superPower military just so we can fight them one day? To show the true colors of these communist everyone voted for this law in China. Communism sucks folks and we better be prepared to face the consequences of our own actions. 56 years later and these communist still wont let it go.
     
  4. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #4
    I think the link you meant to post was this one: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7166181/

    China and Taiwan have been walking this extremely fine "yes-we're-independent"/"no-you're-not" tightrope for a long time. Because the U.S. has interests in both nations, it's traditionally been in the diplomatic middle.

    This may just be more bluster on Beijing's part; they do this sort of thing from time to time, just to keep Taiwan "in its place". But if it isn't, then it's disturbing.

    If push comes to shove, well...getting the U.S. involved would be problematical even under a good administration. Under this one, we've got three additional problems: all our troops are committed to the Middle East; thanks to our invasion of Iraq, we may have difficulty recruiting other nations to help us; and we've got a president and cabinet who handle delicate situations like this the same way a berserk ape handles a Waterford crystal collection.
     
  5. Dont Hurt Me thread starter macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #5
    I allways check my links but i may have scewed up or msnbc may have changed it. Thanks for the link Thomas Veil. I dont see whats in it for Taiwan. It should be a big concern for us because this could be the start a much larger war in the region.
     
  6. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #6
    The Fed owes China a lot of money. Chinese manufacturing keeps what remains of our economy afloat. The US can't do anything. The cynic in me wants to research how many businesses and american military units have been moved out of/away from Taiwan.
     
  7. Dont Hurt Me thread starter macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #7
    Very valid point we are in their pockets sort of speak, I have a feeling that once China is sure its has the capabilty to defeat Taiwan swiftly they will. The U.S. will protest but in the end i dont think they would let Taiwan drag us into war no matter what happens. China also has millions upon millions they would be willing to sacrifice for this and because all of our manufactoring base has been moved into China Big Business will be telling George to lay off. I predict before George's term is up China will be in Taiwan.
     
  8. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #8
    A couple weeks ago I saw a Republican strategist on one of those talking heads shows saying that it's probably time to give up Taiwan. The Cold War is over and there is little to be gained by the strategy of containment. Most Taiwanese I've met see reunification with China as inevitable. I'm inclined to agree. Perhaps Taiwan and Hong Kong can do more to move China forward within China than they did outside of it.
     
  9. Dont Hurt Me thread starter macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #9
    Maybe but remember these are communist and China isnt a democracy which means the people have no say. Maybe along with capitalism one day comes democracy for China? Remember what they did to the last leader that started talking democracy they gave him the boot.
     
  10. Punani macrumors regular

    Punani

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    #10
    Until the late 1980s the Republic of China was under martial law. When Chiang Kai-Shek was president, making fun of him was a death sentence (literally). The ROC has only recently opened up to political freedoms with the death of Chiang.

    To me, the drive for independence is largely fuel by a generation gap. Twenty or thirty years ago students were taught that they were a government-in-exile and that one day the mainland would be retaken. Today, the exact opposite appears to be enforced. While Taiwan was given to China under dubious legal standing (i.e. Unsigned Cairo Declaration), the fact that it was makes it a moot point.

    To some extent the Republic of China is basically a sore loser, they were protected from the Communists solely because of the military intervention of the United States.

    I think a lot of people feel that this is a call for self determination. However, I usually like to reference that if this was true, then what was the American Civil War about? And look at the last time the U.S. got itself actively involved in an internal conflict, that was the Vietnam War.
     
  11. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #11
    Yeah, it's like if some Confederate general had holed up in the Florida Keys for 50 years and proclaimed his own country that the US never got around to retaking.

    Then again, it's nothing like that.

    Eventually, China will have to open up its political system, but it doesn't seem likely to do so soon. Economic development (capitalism) is the first order of business. Perhaps the reincorporation of Taiwan could be part of some kind of national reconsilation between the two parts of China and, as such, part of a process of democratization. A military conflict does no one any good.
     
  12. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #12
    Oh, capitalism has hit China, the economy is expanding at an incredible rate. They've been our most favored trading nation for some time already.

    They aren't really a communist nation anymore, but they still have a strong central government.

    If they take Taiwan back by force they will be doing some very capitalistic expanding, all good capitalist countries aren't afraid to take over a country here and there for the good of that country.
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    I believe it could be the best thing to happen to China: they've got "one country, two systems" already with HK, why not "one country, three systems"? I doubt very much that the mainland's monolithic government would survive long in its present form. It's changing rapidly as it is.

    We live in interesting times.
     
  14. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #14
    I'm sure if push comes to shove we'll abandon Taiwan rather than go to war over them, and they'll be up a river with no paddle.
     
  15. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #16
    Plus, while Chinese hegemony might be a threat to US interests, the spread of communism no longer is.
     
  17. Punani macrumors regular

    Punani

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    #17
    This doesn't work on an ideological level, though it's probably more workable given the "relaxed" tensions between the mainland and Taiwan. Both consider themselves the legitimate government of all of China. I'm sure there would be very senior government officials that would try and stonewall such talks. Plus, Hong Kong is only guaranteed the status quo until 2047.

    Of course, the Republic of China (Taiwan) has some historical denial going on. During the Cold War the official maps showed Mongolia as part of China (some are still sold today)! :eek:
     

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