Christian Crusaders-Be Wary...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Balin64, Apr 11, 2005.

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  1. Balin64 macrumors 6502a

    Balin64

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    #1
    Hi: I found a very interesting article over at Rollingstone. While I know that RS is a very progressive publication, the facts and quotes cited in the piece cannot be glossed over. While it is unlikely that conservative christians will turn the good 'ol US of A into a Biblical Republic, it could be a sign of things to come... especially if they succeed in electing another evalgilical christian as president... We lost the last election: progressive US citizens should start organizing NOW. The Republican right is already gearing up to bring us one hell of a fight in the upcoming election. I love Hillary, but the fact that she's a woman (I am not quite sure this country is ready for a woman leader) and is of course married to Billy, is a Senator from New York, etc makes me nervous. They're going to tear her apart, poor gal. Who will rise to the challenge, I wonder?

    Anyway:

    Link:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7235393?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7
     
  2. Balin64 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Balin64

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    #2
    Here's Two Alarming Excerpts:

    The first:

    "In the conference's opening ceremony, the Dominionists recite an oath they dream of hearing in every classroom: "I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the Savior for whose kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen and coming again, with life and liberty for all who believe."

    The Second:

    "It helps that Dominionists have a direct line to the White House: The Rev. Richard Land, top lobbyist for the 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention, enjoys a weekly conference call with top Bush advisers including Karl Rove. "We've got the Holy Spirit's wind at our backs!" Land declares in an arm-waving, red-faced speech. He takes particular aim at the threat posed by John Lennon, denouncing "Imagine" as a "secular anthem" that envisions a future of "clone plantations, child sacrifice, legalized polygamy and hard-core porn."

    "Imagine" has always made me think of, and contemplate Love. Who ARE these people and what do they lace their Bibles with?

    By the Way: Let's keep this conversation civil and open to all: especially any christian members who may shed some light (but not evangelize to us) on why conservative christian groups have become so political in the last few years. I know our country has many faults, but unless Jesus himself descends from heaven and moves into the White House, I'm not buying their agenda. No, no and no.
     
  3. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #3
    This thread is best suited for the political forum, but yes, the US once again teeters on the edge of cataclysmic shift... I don't know if the country can recover from the damage already done, and the damage that will be inflicted by the next president if he's a religious conservative... i'm still working on a plan to get out of here, everything may be fine but it doesn't look that way right now.
     
  4. Balin64 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Balin64

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    #4
    Agree With You and Apologies

    I should have thought of putting it in the political forum. Do we have a TheoPolitical forum? Just joking...
     
  5. jmsait19 macrumors 6502

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    #5
    wow

    i only read about half the article but kind of got the jist of it.

    i'm a born-again christian myself. i work at my church on the production team. all my friends are from my church. my church is non-denominational.

    but honestly that article sounds nuts. those guys sound hell-bent on taking over the world.

    anyway, all i am saying, is that not all christians are not like that, and not all christian churches teach like that.
     
  6. Balin64 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Balin64

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    #6
    Good to know!

    What worries me is that one of those extremists has a weekly conference call with Bush advisers about national policy.
     
  7. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #7
    Well you know, I love the Christians but hate their agenda and lifestyle.
    ;)
     
  8. eleveneastgate macrumors 6502

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    #8
    Jus' a bunch of Hypocrites!

    How can they follow God's Laws, and persecute those who use Cannibus?

    God gave Man ALL SEED BEARING Plants to use, Right?

    Until they conceed that, they're FULL OF **** --- HYPOCRITES!

    Plus, no-one can judge the faith of others, cause no-one can judge the ways of God!
     
  9. jmsait19 macrumors 6502

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    #9
    whats wrong with the lifestyle. its not like we live in a hut and only come out on a full moon or something.

    just please keep in mind that not every christian is an extremist. most are fiairly normal people.
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #10
    Indeed, and one could say the same about gay people. ;)
     
  11. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #11
    I have the utmost respect for those people who have Christian beliefs and don't want to force them on me. It's the ones that do that worry me. And unfortunately, it's getting hard to tell them apart. Identifying a Christian is pretty easy, the crosses or reading material or stories about seeing each other at church. But then, every once in a while, one of them will do something bizarre, usually after finding out i'm gay, and often involving some sort of public humiliation. So you can see why I'm apprehensive about people who label themselves "Christian" until I find out whether they're a Good Christian or a Bad Christian.

    It's unfortunate that it's gotten to this point, because I'm a person that would really rather not worry about something as stupid as religious beliefs. Certainly not to the point of being on guard around a particular group.
     
  12. shortyman macrumors member

    shortyman

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    #12
    As a Christian from the UK, it always concerns me when the conservative right in the US hits the headlines - frankly, they do our faith no favours because their extremism is so off putting to other non-Christians, and more importantly, it is often not Biblically correct. They just go too far, they are not doing God's will at all IMO.

    However, this is just my personal opinion. :)
     
  13. fistful macrumors 6502a

    fistful

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    #13
    sounds like their God is Power and Greed if you ask me.
     
  14. applebum macrumors 6502

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    #14
    I swear, I think Fundamentalist Christians have done more to drive people away from Christianity than anything else. Can you say vocal minority? I have no idea how this loud group has gained such influence. Unfortunately, people hear this group and automatically associate all Christians with their thinking.

    I am a Christian, but I would fight against making anyone use that first example. Our Founding Fathers fought hard for Freedom of Religion (yes even if you have no religion) and no one should be forced to believe the way I do. Christ never taught that concept. I fully believe that if Christ came again today, He would go out the same way He did last time, and it would be the Fundamentalist Christians taking Him out.
     
  15. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #15
    LOL, I'm not the only one who's thinking about moving out of the country. :D
     
  16. mpw Guest

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    #16
    Seeing as how the Bible was not written as a factual record and has been re-written and mistranslated over time so that it probably doesn't even represent what the original authors believe or intended I don't see how one person interpretation of it carries any more weight than another.

    Personally I'd like to see a lot of the 'Christian' (and many other religions) influences on society removed, I'm convinced that this would do a great deal of good for society as a whole.
     
  17. mpw Guest

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    #17
    Maybe they are staying true to the foundations of Christianity! ;)
     
  18. aloofman macrumors 68020

    aloofman

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    #18
    This is way overblown, no more of a threat than the kooky militias that think the UN is about to invade.

    Consider this: what has President Bush done for the conservative evangelicals besides make nice speeches? There's the faith-based charities program, which I oppose on separation of church and state grounds, but really hasn't had much impact. Just a few billion dollars.

    But what else has he really done? A partial-birth abortion ban law that was quickly struck down by the courts, like everyone knew it would be. Which just gives the complaints about "activist judges" more ammo. But what else? The anti-gay-marriage amendment went nowhere after Bush claimed to support it because he did nothing to get it through Congress. Abortion not only is still the law of the land, but it's more common now than when he took office. Reduced funding for birth control has far more impact on people overseas than it does here. He has consistently done far more for his main benefactors -- Big Business -- than he has for religious conservatives. As soon as the 2004 election was over, everyone was talking about how the evangelicals had Bush over the top. But what was Bush talking about? Tax cuts and Social Security reform.

    I don't know Bush's personal religious views and would never presume to judge them. I have no reason to believe that his beliefs are insincere or that he's putting on a front. But I also think he's duping the conservative Christians into giving him their votes while he really helps rich businessmen. The religious people are his foot soldiers, not his generals. The Terry Schiavo thing was a perfect issue for Bush. He could genuinely show concern for the issue in a way that the devoutly pro-life would appreciate, yet he was setting no precedent or taking any action that would hurt him politically. He's throwing them so bones to keep himself on their side, while basically ignoring the issues they care about.

    What I wonder is: will the Republican party be able to find a nominee in 2008 that connects with the religious conservatives in the same way that Bush does? Because that personal bond he seems to have made with them is one of his chief political advantages. If the next nominee can't do that, then he is not as likely to win. Witness Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist trying to establish his evangelical prowess in the Schiavo affair, preparing for the Republican primaries. I see no signs of a crusade. I see a group of Americans who are being conned into supporting a president who supports their wedge issues but not their cause.
     
  19. daveL macrumors 68020

    daveL

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    #19
    I agree. Religion, in general, is just another form of politics. It's another way in which a small group of people set out to control a much larger group. We are seeing that effect in action today. I'm surprised we haven't seen the return of witch hunts, although I suppose you could argue that they have returned, but they aren't using fire, yet.
     
  20. jmsait19 macrumors 6502

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    #20
    Yea, I agree with you. The people that give christians the bad rap are people who call themselves christians.

    like the guy that stands on the street with signs and tells everyone they are going to hell. using scrare tactics and all. these things are what people form their opinion of christians on and it makes us all look bad.

    kind of how a couple extremist muslims flew planes into buildings and now everyone thinks they all want to do that. which is not true. i know quite a few people of that faith that are petty cool.

    unfortunately you only hear about the bad sides of things and then people are stereotyped by that, rather than the real good parts. this happens with everything, not just religion.
     
  21. eleveneastgate macrumors 6502

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    #21
    True... They're calling it the Patriot Act & a War Against Terrorism these days.

    All this is done because it's good for us.
     
  22. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #22
    this thread is a classic, how after this many posts it is not in the poly forum is a testament to the word abitrary or worse, purposeful. Mention the pope and BOOM political thread, talk about hillary, conservative evangelical republicans in a political manner for nearly 4 hours and ...let it ride.
     
  23. FoxyKaye macrumors 68000

    FoxyKaye

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    #23
    You could have fooled me... The silence from the supposed Christian churches who "aren't like that" is deafening.

    Not me! I give Christians a bad rap all the time, and I'm definitely not a Christian. Am I biased? Absolutely. Thirty-plus years of watching Christians run my government and intervene in my life hasn't given me a whole lot of belief that Christians aren't worth a bad rap.
     
  24. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #24
    Let them have their kooky convention.

    If you try to impose your beliefs by force it's jail for you.
     
  25. broken_keyboard macrumors 65816

    broken_keyboard

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    #25
    Exactly. If these guys really are a lunatic fringe, then the moderates have a resposibility to stand up and denounce them. Why aren't they?
     
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