Christianity, etc. [split]

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by thedude110, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. thedude110 macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    Jun 13, 2005
    #1
    This reminds me of an ex-girlfriend's mother who once told me:

    "You know, I love you. I'm so sad you're going to Hell."

    She wasn't condemning, yet I was condemned. And I thought verbs needed subjects.
     
  2. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #2
    Hell is eternal seperation from God. In light of that, did she say anything untrue?
     
  3. thedude110 thread starter macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #3
    Well, in retrospect, that whole part about loving me seems questionable at best ... ;)
     
  4. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #4
    Well from a certain point of view. From hers, it was because of her love for you that she didn't want to see you be eternally seperated from God. Granted to your ears it sounded like a harsh and unloving thing to say when in fact her heart was very much motivated by love.
     
  5. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #5
    I don't agree with that. I believe in God and I would never say something like that. If you truly "love" someone you don't condemn people passive aggressively. You truly love them for who they are.
     
  6. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #6
    But do you belive in a god (agnostic) or Jesus? And for the record, I'm not saying her methods were the best, or even good, but I can still see the good in her heart behind those words.
     
  7. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #7
    I believe in Jesus yes, and He never condemned anyone in this manner. The only people he openly condemned were the Jewish leaders of the time because they knew the truth and were basically ignoring it, turning their religion into meaningless rituals and no true relationship. He always showed "gentiles", compassion, love and healing.
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    Ok, but I can see the good in the heart of someone who says (or sings ;) ) "you're full of religion, you're full of ****." They're just trying to save you from your wrong-headed beliefs. Not that it's the best method, but the good is there.

    You, however, might find those words discouraging -- even hurtful. So who's right? The one with God on his/her side?

    And now I'm off to listen to some Minor Threat until I have to go visit the dentist...
     
  9. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #9
    Not at all! I would agree with you completely there! Religion is one of the greatest enemies of true relationship with Christ. People substitute church attendance or "service" for relationship and those are the people Jesus spoke of when He said:

    21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
     
  10. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #10
    I suppose it depends on how you define condemned. Recall for instance the woman at the well to whom He said, "You're right to say you have no husband". Now is that conviction or condemnation?
     
  11. thedude110 thread starter macrumors 68020

    thedude110

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    #11
    I do agree with you that she was motivated by a caring emotion, but I didn't mean to misdirect what seems to me to be an important thread (though it's a conversation we could have by PM, or in the right thread, or whatever).

    Let's get back to Tim Hardaway, then ...
     
  12. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #12
    Luke: 36-37 NIV
    I believe she was making a judgment call and passive aggressively condemned him.
     
  13. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #13
    It was neither. He was merely letting her know she wouldn't be able to hide the truth. None of his words to her were condemning, even though she had 5 previous husbands and was living with a guy who wasn't her husband. I know too many Christians who would be chomping at the bit to jump on someone for their faults, but Jesus never does (except those who only outwardly believe).

    It saddens me that Christians are so openly "anti-homosexual". There is no precedent for it.
     
  14. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #14
    But what judgment call?

    12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

    If he doesn't believe in Christ as his savior then she said nothing untrue.
     
  15. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #15
    Matthew 7:2
    We have no right to judge others. God is the one true judge according to the Bible, not anyone else. You cannot tell someone they are going to hell.
     
  16. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #16
    My, but we've drifted off topic.

    Yes, if he in fact doesn't believe in Christ as his savior then she didn't say anything untrue. But unless she was just so completely oblivious to how he would take her words, she was intentionally being hateful, or passive aggressive, or judgmental -- whatever you want to call it. She wasn't saying what she said out of love, she was saying it out of hate.

    Oh, and if she was a southerner, she would at least have added "... bless your heart" to the end of her statement. ;)
     
  17. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #17
    But what judgment are you talking about? I agree that we're not supposed to judge others, but I don't see any judgment here, only a simple, plain spoken (and perhaps poorly worded) truth.
     
  18. SpookTheHamster macrumors 65816

    SpookTheHamster

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    #18
    I tried!
     
  19. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #19
    I would sooner say that she wasn't very intelligent than say she was hateful.
     
  20. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #20
    Well, this is the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. Tim Hardaway's situation just happens to get me going on at least 2 of the 3.

    I've ignored this forum since I joined MacRumors, and maybe I should have continued. I have found it extremely addicting and easy to stray...

    How does she know he is going to hell? Only God knows.
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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  22. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #22
    Is there more to discuss? :) I guess I was using this subject as a way to avoid my class that I'm in. It's 4 hours long (a studio class) and I didn't feel like working on my project.
     
  23. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #23
    Because whoever is without Christ IS going to hell.

    Okay, Leek....Making my exit now. ;)
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #24
  25. Kalns macrumors regular

    Kalns

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    #25
    I know, I'm working hard man lol! I sure ain't studying religion for the money. :p
     

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