Christmas Under Attack!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IJ Reilly, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #1
    It's one of those things you've got to see to believe, and even then... let's put it this way, reading it twice doesn't much help in the credulity department.

    Apparently some group has formed called Committee to Save Merry Christmas. These guys are promoting a boycott of Federated Department Stores for, get this, using "Season's Greetings" and "Happy Holidays" in their advertising, instead of "Merry Christmas." Oh, the horror!

    This activity would have attracted about as much attention as it deserved (read: none). Enter FOX and Bill O'Reilly:

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200412020008

    Happy Holidays!
     
  2. patrick0brien macrumors 68040

    patrick0brien

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  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #3
    Hey there Mr. Muslim, Merry F***ing Christmas. Put down that book the Koran and have some holiday wishes. In case you haven't noticed, it's Jesus' birthday. So get off your heathen Muslim ass and f***ing celebrate.
    ;)
     
  4. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #4
    i'm getting a mixed message from this group. is it really, "protect the sanctity of jesus' birthday by altering your shopping habits?"
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    I love the stores with the sign saying 'Jesus is the reason for the season' right above the 'SALE' sign.
     
  6. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #6
    In the "amused by the strangeness of it all" department, I took in with great wonderment O'Reilly's bizarre remark about Christmas being "under attack."

    Yeah, Bill. By whom?
     
  7. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #7
    well, i suppose if gay marriage ruins it for man/woman marriage, then Season's Greetings must ruin it for the Merry Christmas folk.

    when will the probably-offensive-to-someone "Merry X-mas" be on the chopping block?
     
  8. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #8
    There are those who for years have protested "Merry X-mas"
    (I have not been one of them)

    The argument goes that it takes "Christ" out of Christmas and replaces him with X or an empty placeholder (like in Algebra).

    However, the X is also representative of the Greek letter that begins the word "Christ" in that language.

    I don't particularly find it offensive myself.
     
  9. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #9
    Actually, I have found harmony by separating the two... "Christmas", as the secular holiday and the celebration of the birth of Christ.
    It has been the only way I've found to bring sanity back to Christmas for me.

    They are really 2 very different holidays, but they are often mixed...
    Christmas is celebrated by 'believers' and 'unbeliever' alike
    The birth of Christ is celebrated by 'believers'

    They have different characters
    Christmas centers around Santa Claus but includes elves, reindeer, and snowmen

    The birth of Christ focuses on Jesus Christ and includes angels, shepherds and wisemen

    They have different symbols
    Christmas uses the Christmas tree, lights, ornaments

    The celebration of the birth of Christ uses the manger scene

    They have different traditions
    Christmas reads ‘Twas the Night Before Christmas’, watches Charlie Brown, The Grinch and Rudolph

    The celebration of the birth of Christ reads Luke 2 and Matthew 2

    They have different celebrations
    Christmas is marked by parties, celebration, drinking and feasting

    The celebration of the birth of Christ is remembered by candlelight services, the manger story and singing

    They have different music
    Christmas has its own music- Silver Bells, White Christmas, Frosty, Rudolph, Christmas in Dixie
    and in recent days... Grandma got run over by a reindeer, Hippopotamus, Barking Dogs, Porky’s Elvis

    The birth of Christ has its music- Joy to the World, Hark the Herald Angels Sing, First Noel, O Little Town of Bethlehem, Silent Night and Away in a Manger

    They have different presents
    Christmas is celebrated by giving gifts to one another

    The birth of Christ is celebrated by receiving the gift God gave to us

    They have different greetings
    Christmas says 'seasons greetings' and 'happy holidays'

    The celebration of the birth of Christ says, 'merry Christmas'

    What is Christmas?
    Christmas is a pagan holiday- built on the traditions of pagan festivals

    Christmas is a secular holiday- like Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Labor Day [out of school/off work]

    Christmas is a commercial holiday- an opportunity to give and receive and stimulate economy

    Christmas is a family holiday- a time for family and friends to reunite

    Christmas is a believer’s holiday- a time to celebrate the birth of the Savior

    Sooooooo....
    I don't really have a problem with 'seasons greetings' or 'happy holidays' at the stores.

    I celebrate both holidays!!
     
  10. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #10
    If they really gave a crap about the Christ part of Christmas, they'd be railing against the consumerism and Santa-themed "Christian" approach to the holiday, which ***** on the life and work of Christ.

    Similarly, if they gave a crap about the traditional institution of marriage, they'd be demanding something be done to stop divorce (which Jesus explicitly forbids in the Gospel).

    But this isn't about them giving a crap. This is about them using religion in vain to support their hatred or dislike of other human beings.
     
  11. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #11
    I agree that the broad category of "Christians" do often major on the minors. The crass consumerism is a blight on the season in my opinion. And I agree that divorce is as much of a problem in the Christian community as it is in the non-Christian circles, and should be addressed.

    I just might not express it as colorfully as you did. :)
     
  12. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #12
    I think it ought to be Festivus, like on Seinfeld.

    "And for the airing of grievances!!!!"

    there is also, have a dreary winter solstice!

    but if we are to take religion out of government, then we should have congress back in session!

    There are probably 10,000+ protests going on at anyone time, all boycotting something. I am sure 7-11 has something to do with the snail darter. :rolleyes: The measure is the rise to the call, and I don't believe this is the fight that needs fighting. Neither will most. :cool:

    But for you non-believers I hope you have a very merry, ooppps scratch that, a very cold and dreary winter solstice, and a happy next year closer to death and nothingness. Please don't buy a tree-hurts the enviorment, and the fake ones use up petroleum reserves that will force us to drill in alaska, which will kill animals, and flood islands. Yada Yada Yada.

    For the faithful Jews, Happy Chanukah/Hanaukkah!
    For those of Muslim faith, on the 14th may you reflect on Remembrance day for Khadijah.
    For those from Unitarian, Baha'i, Hindu, and others.....May each find peace in your season.
    And for my Christian Brothers and Sisters, a Very Merry Christmas, and May the Peace of Christ be with you and yours the special time of the year! :)

    PS: May I recommend Handel's Messiah for your enjoyment!
     
  13. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #13
    Howabout "Happy Christmas"? Will that confuse? Might people spin around and have their heads explode?

    Jesus Christ.

    He would be pissed.

    Pathetic.
     
  14. stubeeef macrumors 68030

    stubeeef

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    #14
    Yes, he may well be, about a lot of things......from the way I don't give enough money to the poor and needy, to those who don't believe.

    Christmas has ziltch to do with buying crap, and everything to do with giving, and celebrating God's Gift to us.
     
  15. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #15
    I agree with you on the highjacking of Christmas by Consumerism and the importance of Giving.

    As for the God's gift part, that is open to interpretation. You could also celebrate St. Christopher if you wanted. The point to me, is to make the most of the time.

    Btw, I have heard that Jesus was actually born in March (or something), not on December 25th. Anyone able to support or refute this claim?
     
  16. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #16
    I would seriously doubt that there is any reputable record of an actual date.

    Then of course there are those that say he was never born, and never lived... that he is just a myth. :rolleyes:
     
  17. vwcruisn macrumors regular

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    #17
    i think its possible that someone named jesus christ exsisted at one time, maybe he was a really great guy and did a lot of good for a lot of people, but thats the extent of it. The "myth" being that he was something much greater, a higher being etc. etc. Then again, I would not be surprised at all to find out that such a person never exsisted in the first place. Guess we can't prove it either way tho huh.
     
  18. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #18
    My daughter doesn't believe we landed on the moon either.
    But I think she is joking... I think :rolleyes:
     
  19. 3rdpath macrumors 68000

    3rdpath

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    #19
    christmas under attack....

    We know where Christmas is. It's in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
     

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  20. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #20
    The Christmas tree is the one tradition that just makes me laugh, an old Europe, pagan ritual giving thanks to the tree during the winter solstice. But, as long as the pope has given his sacred stamp of approval, it must be ok.

    I think that Jesus was born in Feb or March, based on the position of the stars, at least according to the bible. The reason that xmas is celebrated in December is because of the solstice and the many pagan rituals that were common at that time. It was very astute of the Catholic Church to change the dates of its celebrations to match those of the "pagans" they were trying to save. It's very evident in central and south america and the philippines. Many of those pagan rituals and dates live on in the Catholic Church.

    Being a celebrator of the solstices, it's nice to hear happy holidays or, even better, simply "have a nice day". It's not that big of a deal but to be honest, at this time of the year, there are a couple of grocery stores that I don't shop at because of their insistence on spreading excessive and fake holiday cheer. It's a time of year for the celebration of many different things and at such times, I'm a big believer in the KISS approach, why be such a zealot?
     
  21. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #21
    This comes up every year and it's just stupid, IMO. If you are offended because someone says "Merry Christmas" and/or has Christmas decorations out, grow up. If you are offended because someone says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas," grow up. People should feel free to use whatever greeting/good-bye they want.

    I live in a very Jewish area (I'm not Jewish, BTW), and if someone said "Happy Chanukah" to me I wouldn't be the least bit put off and would sincerely reply "Happy Chanukah."

    "Happy Chanukah", "Merry Christmas", etc., are a nice, polite jestures. Not attempts to convert someone.

    Some people are just a bit too thin skinned.


    Lethal
     
  22. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #22
    True enough, but let's play a little what-if game with this. If someone started a boycott campaign against department stores that decorated their stores with "Merry Christmas" banners, would they be featured on Bill O'Reilly's show? And if they were, would they get a friendly treatment from good ol' Bill, mister fair and balanced?

    Incidentally, a message for Bill O'Reilly: No, Jews do not like Christmas any more than Christians like Yom Kippur. Good grief, is that man a complete idiot or what?
     
  23. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #23
    interesting i never thought that "merry christmas" might offend anyone

    (for the jesus thing: i doubt the month is sure when they even can't fix the year to 6 or 7 when he was born... )

    what i find much much more annoying is how the local christmas traditions are 'overruled' by the ones MacDawg mentioned before ...

    in our family always the "Christkind" brought the gifts, non-electric Candles on the tree, the part of the bible is read, our old wooden manger with all the small figures is set up in the afternoon on the small Table and our big "Advent-wreath" (sp?) on the other one ,the tree is decorated by us kids and our father in the afternoon (the only time on the 24. where the tv is _not off_) ,etc etc.

    really anoying how the media love "santa claus"
     
  24. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #24
    It's sometime in Spring, right around Easter-Passover. I don't think they pin down an exact date on it though.

    It was changed at some point in the early days of the Church to coincide with the winter solstice instead, so as to make Christianity more palatable to the pagans who celebrated the solstice (which they observed -- literally and with feastdays -- every year on Dec 21 or 22).
     
  25. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #25
    You're all being so hemispherist! Down south, it's midsummer, so the feast-day, if any, should be around June 21st. It is, after all, a feast to celebrate the end of the old year and the beginning of the new, wherever you are.
     

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